North Korea

[Newbornbairn]

Those getting all outraged about America dropping nuclear weapons on Japan are indulging in a bit of historical revisionism. The true effects of atomic bombs weren't known at the time, they were just seen as exceptionally big bombs. It wasn't until afterwards, when the longer term effects became apparent that their true horrific nature became apparent. One plan had been to detonate them on Japanese beaches just before the Marines stormed ashore - radiation wasn't so well understood.

In the context of a war where 100,000 people died in one night's conventional bombing in Tokyo, the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't exceptional in terms of casualties.

[Reynard]

The new un sanctions have just taken effect with a massive joint military exercise in the south about to take place,hopefully just the usual sabre rattling from the north

That should make precisely zero difference.

The UN are a shower of arseholes.

[welshbairn]

It's easy to justify Hiroshima, and it may well have saved lives by preventing the need for a land invasion. But I've doubts about Nagasaki, and suspect it might have been more about testing the effects of a plutonium weapon in comparison with the uranium one that was dropped on Hiroshima. If so, that was truly evil.

[doulikefish]

That should make precisely zero difference.

The UN are a shower of arseholes.

They are aimed at north korean banks stoping there flow of cash,im sure one of the googlers will be along shortly with a copy and paste with a better explanation

[Reynard]

They are aimed at north korean banks stoping there flow of cash,im sure one of the googlers will be along shortly with a copy and paste with a better explanation

I'm sure they are aimed at all sorts of good things. I'm sure they won't work like the vast majority of pish the UN comes out with.

[Newbornbairn]

It's easy to justify Hiroshima, and it may well have saved lives by preventing the need for a land invasion. But I've doubts about Nagasaki, and suspect it might have been more about testing the effects of a plutonium weapon in comparison with the uranium one that was dropped on Hiroshima. If so, that was truly evil.

But again you have to see it in the context of "bloody big bomb" rather than the modern view of nuclear weapons. As I've already said huge bombing raids inflicting mass casualties on civilians had become commonplace and an accepted tactic in WWII.

A different time and different circumstances.

[mizfit]

So what are the south and norths war back on?

[MONKMAN]

So what are the south and norths war back on?

The war never ended

[Simmo6932]

So you don't think dropping 2 nuclear bombs on Japan was "all out"?Anyway, if a ground invasion wasn't necessary for N.Korea, why didn't they use this tactic in Afghanistan?

I did mean to say since 2nd world war.Afghanistan has been a tippy tappy war.trying to find bin laden without doing to much damage to the country and trying to win local hearts over minds and encourage local Afghanis to rise up against their Taliban oppressors.they couldn't do this by indiscriminate bombing and wiping out the people.my point is that if they wanted to,they could.[/quote

Tippy tappy war to a certain extent, that whole war has f**k all to do with

'Hearts and minds' or Osama Bin Laden.

It's all about untapped natural resources which the American, British ,Chinese and Russians all have a hand in.

Camp Bastion is the size of Reading, it's massive and even now there are hardened structures being erected on site when troops are supposedly off the ground by 2014. Got a funny feeling troops will be based there way passed that deadline to allow certain infrastructures in place to allow the resources to be tapped.

Companies like Halliburton and KBR are making a killing and this whole 'hearts and minds' thing is just a cover up IMO.

[mizfit]

So what are the south and norths war back on?

The war never ended

I was aware of that, I perhaps should have clarified that I meant are they back to killing each other?

[xbl]

They are aimed at north korean banks stoping there flow of cash,im sure one of the googlers will be along shortly with a copy and paste with a better explanation

Why do you always say "googlers" like it is a bad thing? Looking up information and providing sources to back up opinions is not a bad thing!

[Reynard]

But again you have to see it in the context of "bloody big bomb" rather than the modern view of nuclear weapons. As I've already said huge bombing raids inflicting mass casualties on civilians had become commonplace and an accepted tactic in WWII.

A different time and different circumstances.

We will overcommmme We will overcommmmmme

Hopefully we have one or two guitarists to accompany the sweet singing.

[doulikefish]

Why do you always say "googlers" like it is a bad thing? Looking up information and providing sources to back up opinions is not a bad thing!

Show me were i mentioned its a bad thing in that post

[xbl]

Show me were i mentioned its a bad thing in that post

If I'm wrong I apologise, but it seemed you used it in a very pejorative way, and you're not the only one!

[renton]

But again you have to see it in the context of "bloody big bomb" rather than the modern view of nuclear weapons. As I've already said huge bombing raids inflicting mass casualties on civilians had become commonplace and an accepted tactic in WWII.

A different time and different circumstances.

Very true, Curtis LeMay was quite open about the fact that more people died in the firbombing of Tokyo than did in the atom bombing of Japan. At their peak of around 1944 - before the temrinal decline in British war making power, the combined force of RAF bomber command and USAAF 8th airforce could, and did regularly flatten whole cities over a couple of missions. Take raids like the '43 raid on Bremen by the RAF, whwere the payloads of the bombers had been calibrated to give a mix of explosive and incendiary effects: The result was a huge firestorm, in the 1,000s of degrees that swpet over lakes and rivers destroying everythign in it's path. The death tolls were horrific and the infrastructure of the city smashed such that emergency services could not render effective aid - leading to more death later.

This is all entirely consistent with the initial effects of an atom bomb.

From a technical point of view, the atom bomb advantage at the time was one of efficiency. To the Japanese, it was shock and awe. The US were able to obliterate japan in a matter of days rather than weeks or months, their air defences smashed and with little hope of inflicting the kind of causalties that the Germans had when they briefly stopped the US daylight bombing in '42. It was simply the folly of continued resistance sped up in front of their eyes. The Americans could and probably would have battered them into submission without a land invasion in a little while longer anyway.

[Sweet Pete]

Very true, Curtis LeMay was quite open about the fact that more people died in the firbombing of Tokyo than did in the atom bombing of Japan. At their peak of around 1944 - before the temrinal decline in British war making power, the combined force of RAF bomber command and USAAF 8th airforce could, and did regularly flatten whole cities over a couple of missions. Take raids like the '43 raid on Bremen by the RAF, whwere the payloads of the bombers had been calibrated to give a mix of explosive and incendiary effects: The result was a huge firestorm, in the 1,000s of degrees that swpet over lakes and rivers destroying everythign in it's path. The death tolls were horrific and the infrastructure of the city smashed such that emergency services could not render effective aid - leading to more death later.

This is all entirely consistent with the initial effects of an atom bomb.

From a technical point of view, the atom bomb advantage at the time was one of efficiency. To the Japanese, it was shock and awe. The US were able to obliterate japan in a matter of days rather than weeks or months, their air defences smashed and with little hope of inflicting the kind of causalties that the Germans had when they briefly stopped the US daylight bombing in '42. It was simply the folly of continued resistance sped up in front of their eyes. The Americans could and probably would have battered them into submission without a land invasion in a little while longer anyway.

Don't forget Dresden.

[Lofarl]

North Korea will invade the South tomorrow. It's the one day when they could steamroll through the south as the new Starcraft game comes out. Throw a South Korean man in a room with a PC, 4 naked supermodels and 4 grams of coke. He will shoe them woman away and start getting his Starcraft on. They are utterly mental for it over there.

[welshbairn]

If we're comparing nastiness of bombing campaigns, this is enlightening: http://www.onlinemilitaryeducation.org/posts/10-most-devastating-bombing-campaigns-of-wwii/

To put it in context, here's the estimated death toll by nukes:

Hiroshima: 90,000-166,000

Nagasaki: 60,000 - 80,000

[Paulo Sergio]

I think restarting the war with the North is fully justified.

Good Lord.

[cracowjambo]

Good Lord.

A crazy little fat Korean man wants nukes.

We are better getting in first before he does some damage.

On another note did you know you can get the train from Austria to North Korea :-O