North Korea

[Ya Bezzer!]

As someone else said China will have the biggest say here. Not only does it have more influence over North Korea but the United States is, although it doesn't like to admit it, financially subservient to China.

China owns so much of the US national debt it it almost has more control of the dollar than US politicians do.

[Gaz]

As someone else said China will have the biggest say here. Not only does it have more influence over North Korea but the United States is, although it doesn't like to admit it, financially subservient to China.

China owns so much of the US national debt it it almost has more control of the dollar than US politicians do.

A quick Google search would reveal that, for 2012, China (and Hong Kong) owns 8.1% of the US's national debt. US individuals and institutions own 30.4%.

[DomDom]

Why are people still talking like "wiping them off the earth" is even an option?

[DAFC]

As someone else said China will have the biggest say here. Not only does it have more influence over North Korea but the United States is, although it doesn't like to admit it, financially subservient to China.

China owns so much of the US national debt it it almost has more control of the dollar than US politicians do.

Saudi Arabia owns more.

[MONKMAN]

Why are people still talking like "wiping them off the earth" is even an option?

I don't think anyone thinks this will actually happen. People are discussing hypothetical situations. That said, if the north did do something stupid, I'd imagine military targets would be bombed to kingdom come. Total annihilation of the country just isn't going to happen

[As We Rise Again]

Will the Chinese get involved in this?

[Ya Bezzer!]

A quick Google search would reveal that, for 2012, China (and Hong Kong) owns 8.1% of the US's national debt. US individuals and institutions own 30.4%.

I believe the amount is about 12-13% but the leverage China has over the US is hugely magnified by the US dependence on Chinese goods and the control the Chinese state has over it's own currency, which it deliberately manipulates to prop up the dollar. Due to these factors if China were to call in its debt and increase the value of its own currency against the dollar it would effectively put the US economy into melt down over night. It's in China's interest to keep the US economy afloat (which is why it's taken on so much of its debt) as it constitutes a huge market for Chinese goods but if things go pear shape China certainly has a trump card to play.

At least that's what I'm led to believe, I'm not an economist.

[welshbairn]

China may have a big stake in the US economy, but it also means they have a big interest in it being successful. They have to have a market for their exports, and the last thing they want is their US bonds devalued. China would drop N Korea in a second if it undermined that, and if NK matched their rhetoric with action, China would do zilch as Phnom Penh was turned into magma.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

China would do zilch as Phnom Penh was turned into magma.

I know the whole Pol Pot/Khmer Rouge thing was a bit iffy, but that would be a bit harsh on the Cambodians IMO.

[Fotbawmad]

North Korea might have a few million men but how many are fit to fight. Most of them will be starving poorly trained and their equipment will be shit.compare that to the U.S,UK and south Korea it will be a quicker war than Afghanistan

Numbers don't mean that much today when a small handful of people can single handedly wipe out hundred of thousands. Wars are, and will become increasingly dependent on who has the best/latest technology. Thats why goverments goto great lengths to keep milatery secrets. That said, ground troops are still important as you'll always need them to flush out the enemy in urban areas and crucially control towns and cities after the war is won. We saw the detrimental effect so few troop numbers had in Iraq.

http://www.wimp.com/tsarbomba/

Better off using a supernova IMO (Only it might destroy the entire universe)

I don't think anyone thinks this will actually happen. People are discussing hypothetical situations. That said, if the north did do something stupid, I'd imagine military targets would be bombed to kingdom come. Total annihilation of the country just isn't going to happen

Media continually make a bigger deal out of it just to sell a story. However, war with NK is the most heavilly pre-planned in history. NK is most likely to strike first, and will attempt to go for a quick win. Despite their medieval weaponary they can still obliterate Seoul with all the artilery they have pointed at it, and inflict mass civilian casulties. The x-factor will be how will the NK soldiers react when they start to learn the reality of the south is nothing like the propaganda they've been fed all their lives.

Personally, I think there is more chance of voluntery reform than a milatery intervention.

Will the Chinese get involved in this?

No.

[Ivo den Bieman]

China may have a big stake in the US economy, but it also means they have a big interest in it being successful. They have to have a market for their exports, and the last thing they want is their US bonds devalued. China would drop N Korea in a second if it undermined that, and if NK matched their rhetoric with action, China would do zilch as Phnom Penh was turned into magma.

[Ivo den Bieman]

[mizfit]

I just watched vice news documentrys on North Korea, apparently they have tunnels dug that would allow then access into South Korea within an hour from the border, the US and South Koreans have both discovered large amounts of these tunnels, but believe there to be more. I would recommend the following

North KOrean labor camps

Life inside North Korea

The only American in Korea

[Newbornbairn]

We're remarkably poorly informed about N Korea in this country and seem to concentrate on the sensational. Rather than being a closed economy, did anyone here know that there are a number of "Joint Ventures" between Western businesses and DPRK? Companies like Phillips have huge assembly facilities in purpose-built industrial parks where they can capitalise on extremely low wages. That's why so many goods are now labelled "Made in Korea" rather than specifying "South". The biggest players in this are the Chinese who employ tens of thousands of North Koreans.

Anyway, this is a better analysis than anything I've seen in the British media - http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/Collapse+North+Korea+more+dangerous+than+threats/8179170/story.html

[doulikefish]

We're remarkably poorly informed about N Korea in this country and seem to concentrate on the sensational. Rather than being a closed economy, did anyone here know that there are a number of "Joint Ventures" between Western businesses and DPRK? Companies like Phillips have huge assembly facilities in purpose-built industrial parks where they can capitalise on extremely low wages. That's why so many goods are now labelled "Made in Korea" rather than specifying "South". The biggest players in this are the Chinese who employ tens of thousands of North Koreans.

Anyway, this is a better analysis than anything I've seen in the British media - http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/Collapse+North+Korea+more+dangerous+than+threats/8179170/story.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/world/asia/north-korean-sites-are-down-in-possible-cyberattacks.html?_r=0

Its always been said if that place gets closed then its get your tin hat on time

[Ivo den Bieman]

We're remarkably poorly informed about N Korea in this country and seem to concentrate on the sensational. Rather than being a closed economy, did anyone here know that there are a number of "Joint Ventures" between Western businesses and DPRK? Companies like Phillips have huge assembly facilities in purpose-built industrial parks where they can capitalise on extremely low wages. That's why so many goods are now labelled "Made in Korea" rather than specifying "South". The biggest players in this are the Chinese who employ tens of thousands of North Koreans.

Anyway, this is a better analysis than anything I've seen in the British media - http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/Collapse+North+Korea+more+dangerous+than+threats/8179170/story.html

It's always been that way in the West's dealing with dictatorships. For example, engines for VW Polos in the late 80s were made at the Wartburg facory in East Germany, although no one was allowed to know at the time. The West German government spent ove a billion DM 'buying' political prisoners and dissidents out of East German jails. The Korean example you give is just a continuation of this.

[Paulo Sergio]

Will the Chinese get involved in this?

Bigot.

[WaffenThinMint]

I saw that one last year on YouTube & it's near to impossible not to feel sorry for the North Koreans, under the yoke of a detestible regime that brainwashes them from birth in order to keep the last feudal nation on earth alive. There is little to no dissident movement like there always was to some degree behind the Iron Curtain, so we're looking at a nation of 24 million people at least half of whom will have complete mental breakdowns when it all falls apart & they realise how much they'd been played for fools.

We're remarkably poorly informed about N Korea in this country and seem to concentrate on the sensational. Rather than being a closed economy, did anyone here know that there are a number of "Joint Ventures" between Western businesses and DPRK? Companies like Phillips have huge assembly facilities in purpose-built industrial parks where they can capitalise on extremely low wages. That's why so many goods are now labelled "Made in Korea" rather than specifying "South". The biggest players in this are the Chinese who employ tens of thousands of North Koreans.

Anyway, this is a better analysis than anything I've seen in the British media - http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/Collapse+North+Korea+more+dangerous+than+threats/8179170/story.html

Thank you for that. It's disgusting yet not surprising how much the North Koreans ended up becoming the worst treated wage-slaves of all in a system that was supposed to "liberate" them from such exploitation. George Orwell's "Animal Farm" writ large.

[doulikefish]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/world/asia/north-korean-sites-are-down-in-possible-cyberattacks.html?_r=0

Its always been said if that place gets closed then its get your tin hat on time

Its not closed but they are stopping south korean workers getting into work today

[invergowrie arab]

It was always said that as long as Kaesong was open everything else was bluster. Now that workers from the South can not get into kaesong it doesn't mean that it is not still bluster but its another piece of evidence that tensions are mounting.

Having said that it has been shut before after their last piece of penis waving back in 2009