Mr Rational Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Scotland is slowly engaging in the debate now, and people are beginning to think about not the SNP or labour, they are thinking about what kind of country do we want to live in and how best to deliver it. Don't like Salmond? Fine, don't vote for him. But vote for doing things ourselves, getting the government we voted for an having the tools to at least try and lift people out of poverty. Will Westminster do it? Why hasn't it done it by now? People are beginning to think about that, it's hard to argue against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speckled tangerine Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I've always had a suspicion that Malcolm Chisholm would be the one Labour MSP of a high enough profile (being an ex minister) who would be prepared to support independence. A bit peeved that the old thread has been lost. But hey ho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I'm sure there will be quite a few that privately would be all for it. Politicians are a pretty opportunistic breed anyway. They will sway the way the wind blows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Also interesting to note that when you ask 'should Holyrood make all decisions about Scotland?' The polls rise dramatically. We have a problem with the word independence but that's it. Get round that, it gets very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Freud Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Scotland is slowly engaging in the debate now, and people are beginning to think about not the SNP or labour, they are thinking about what kind of country do we want to live in and how best to deliver it. Don't like Salmond? Fine, don't vote for him. But vote for doing things ourselves, getting the government we voted for an having the tools to at least try and lift people out of poverty. Will Westminster do it? Why hasn't it done it by now? People are beginning to think about that, it's hard to argue against it. Yep. In a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 It's actually quite nice seeing people engage in the political process though. Although it's the result I am happy with, it will be a bit disheartening for the "Yes" campaigners in the aftermath of the defeat, and I hope they stay involved in politics. Particularly the younger ones. If the standard of our political product improves this can only be a good thing, for Scotland and the UK, as the best will gravitate to Westminster, or lead in Holyrood if not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 The bedroom tax is already being portrayed as a poll tax mark 2 No it isn't.I had the misfortune of picking up my Gran's Sunday Mail whilst visiting yesterday, and it certainly is being portrayed as the poll tax all over again (at least by some). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 It's actually quite nice seeing people engage in the political process though. Although it's the result I am happy with, it will be a bit disheartening for the "Yes" campaigners in the aftermath of the defeat, and I hope they stay involved in politics. Particularly the younger ones. If the standard of our political product improves this can only be a good thing, for Scotland and the UK, as the best will gravitate to Westminster, or lead in Holyrood if not. You keep clicking those heels together and wishing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 For those seriously considering voting No, I would urge them to take in to account the consequences of what that would mean. Voting No is not a vote for the status quo - things won't revert to what we have now. The Scotland Act comes into force in 2016 with new Tax powers and the Barnet Formula will be reviewed which in all probability will be cut. I feel there is a debate to be had on the consequences of a No vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 You keep clicking those heels together and wishing! Yes that's right - it's "No" voters who have to resort to finger and toes crossing and wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 For those seriously considering voting No, I would urge them to take in to account the consequences of what that would mean. Voting No is not a vote for the status quo - things won't revert to what we have now. The Scotland Act comes into force in 2016 with new Tax powers and the Barnet Formula will be reviewed which in all probability will be cut. I feel there is a debate to be had on the consequences of a No vote. Yup, right now the entirety of Bitter together's case is: 'Sometimes England votes for Labour too, isn't that nice' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Yup, right now the entirety of Bitter together's case is: 'Sometimes England votes for Labour too, isn't that nice' Thing is, it won't matter who is in power. The Barnet formula will be cut and in my opinion it will leave Scotland the highest Taxed part of the UK. Labour in Scotland are already gearing up for a cut in Barnet by indicating a lot of "free" public services will not be affordable. A No vote will ensure they are right about that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 For those seriously considering voting No, I would urge them to take in to account the consequences of what that would mean. Voting No is not a vote for the status quo - things won't revert to what we have now. The Scotland Act comes into force in 2016 with new Tax powers and the Barnet Formula will be reviewed which in all probability will be cut. I feel there is a debate to be had on the consequences of a No vote. Plus you just know one of the first things we'll hear down south is the myth that Scotland voted no because we can't survive without being subsidise from English taxpayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Plus you just know one of the first things we'll hear down south is the myth that Scotland voted no because we can't survive without being subsidise from English taxpayers. If we return a No vote we will deserve every slagging and insult that comes our way. As an SNP supporter in the event of a No vote I hope Labour gain power at Holyrood in 2016 and Johann Lamont becomes First Minister. We will deserve that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Fairness. I would like to move the debate on a wee bit, so do you think that Scotland/UK is a fair place to live? Fairness can be anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 in my opinion it will leave Scotland the highest Taxed part of the UK Explain. I would like to move the debate on a wee bit, so do you think that Scotland/UK is a fair place to live? I think this is a good question, but isn't related to Independence. You'd also need to define fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Oh I think it's a good question, one which you might hear a wee bit more if and I think fairness could be anything you wish it to be from is it fair that we have fuel poverty in this country to is it fair that we went into Iraq when it was clear that the majority of people were against it? You can spin the question to suit, even against independence, it's only fair to the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Fairness. I would like to move the debate on a wee bit, so do you think that Scotland/UK is a fair place to live? Fairness can be anything. No I don't and even during the 'boom' years it was getting more and more unfair. Independence isn't a magic ticket to fix that but I believe gives us the best opporutnity to begin to fix that. I'll be voting Yes in 2014, i won't be voting SNP in 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Explain. I think this is a good question, but isn't related to Independence. You'd also need to define fair. We are goiing to have new borrowing powers of around £5b and a Scottish rate of Income Tax in 2015. The Barnet Formula will need to be cut to reflect this. In my opinion with the threat of independence gone for the forseeable future, the Barnet Formula will take a dramatic cut from Westminster. This will leave any Scottish government no choice but to either borrow more or raise Income Tax. Not a popular thing to do. This scenario will be a win win for Westminster. Firstly it will appease English voters who believe we get all the freebies at their expense and will ensure no Scottish government will be as popular as the SNP government in the election win of 2011. Ensuring minority governments which was always the plan for Holyrood. This of course will make it virtually impossible to force through another independence referendum Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 This will leave any Scottish government no choice but to either borrow more or raise Income Tax. Or spend less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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