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Independence - how would you vote?

Independence - how would you vote  

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the snp have made a huge mess of this campaign.

they should be using their majority in holyrood to put some major changes through - like gay marriage - which would show that scotland can have a brighter future on it's own. instead they are totally bogged down in issues that make you want to slit your wrists like trident and sterling.

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Poll coming out showing young Scots 3 to 1 against independence. Way above average. Reducing voting could have been a mistake for Nats.

Even if extending democracy is an electoral 'mistake' it is not a political one.

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Let's see, recent history within the UK, we have had, Iraq. Afghanistan, Trident upgrade, MP Expense scandal.

Now i wouldn't say these are things i'd be proud to say Scotland is associated with. and for me, it's these little things that make me really struggle to say voting against Independence would be better for our country.

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Even if extending democracy is an electoral 'mistake' it is not a political one.

I have agreed with giving 16 + 17 year olds the vote from the start.

Extending democracy can only ever be a good thing. I think that it has backfired on those who proposed it though and their belief that youngsters would be caught up in some sort of frenzy for independence. Even at 16 and 17 kids are still very much swayed by their parents' views and opinions, probably more so than anything they hear in a 40 minute lesson on social studies class at school.

I wonder how impartial the teachers are on the subject of independence.

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Tonight on STV is apparently Moore vs Sturgeon. As Mr Rational said, everyone will be able to say now who they think won, and insult the performance of the other. It will save time on actually watching it.

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Tonight on STV is apparently Moore vs Sturgeon. As Mr Rational said, everyone will be able to say now who they think won, and insult the performance of the other. It will save time on actually watching it.

If all else is lost they can compare barbers.

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No surprise it's Sturgeon v Moore. Given the fact her stock catchphrase is 'let's have a debate' i'd have loved to have seen Lamont there. She's utterly fucking hopeless though as we all know, even reading from a script, so no shock there.

I see the press are leading large on the meltdown in A&E In England. Handily, some predictable deflection from BBC Scotland focussing again today on waiting times.

The elephant in the room is that Barnet consequentials are heading south (forgive the pun) with increased spending on defence and cuts in England elsewhere.

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Sturgeon vs Moore isn't until 16th May.

So it is, my bad!

I guess it gives us more time to discuss the results in advance of the debate.

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Lord Ashcroft poll: Most Scots back nuclear deterrent

The survey found that 51 per cent of people north of the Border want Trident replaced with an “equally powerful” nuclear missile system or a cheaper, more limited version. In contrast, only 34 per cent want to “give up nuclear weapons completely”.

Well this seems pretty damning. Lets see what the original data says?

2. In principle, do you support or oppose the United Kingdom having nuclear weapons?

Support: 37

Oppose: 48

Don’t know: 15

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Trident-Poll-Summary.pdf

Ho hum.

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They didn't want this referendum, or at least Salmond didn't want it now. He's a gradualist. They've probably made the best out of the situation, but I think his strategy was to have at least another term as a (strong) minority, calling for significant extra tax powers.Yawn.

It will get plenty attention if they release this information now. If it's not well enough thought through, that's their problem.

Once again, I suspect it's either a lousy strategy or evidence of indecision/failing to have thrashed out these things properly in advance among the SNP leadership.

They gave away the ones we did have.

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They gave away the ones we did have.

Team: St. Mirren.

Oh look, another Reynard post on this topic, another repeated (and several times disproven) lie.

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Lord Ashcroft poll: Most Scots back nuclear deterrent

Well this seems pretty damning. Lets see what the original data says?

2. In principle, do you support or oppose the United Kingdom having nuclear weapons?

Support: 37

Oppose: 48

Don’t know: 15

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Trident-Poll-Summary.pdf

Ho hum.

Yes, but in Q3, the raw data was 51% in favour of replacement of Trident or a less powerful system.

Why do you ALWAYS do this? You present yourself as the only voice of reason, the only one who understands, and anyone disagreeing is either stupid or duplicitous.

You know, the ONLY good thing about a no vote, the one thing that would keep me warm in this eventuality, would be the thought of you rocking backwards and forwards and sucking your thumb.

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Yes, but in Q3, the raw data was 51% in favour of replacement of Trident or a less powerful system.

Why do you ALWAYS do this? You present yourself as the only voice of reason, the only one who understands, and anyone disagreeing is either stupid or duplicitous.

You know, the ONLY good thing about a no vote, the one thing that would keep me warm in this eventuality, would be the thought of you rocking backwards and forwards and sucking your thumb.

be fair here PF, the telegraph is being selective in it's use of the data in order to present it as an anti independence story.

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So Q2 was the full sample of adults questioned, which gives most Scots as being against nuclear weapons in principle. And then splits Q3/Q4 into sub samples. What's interesting is that in Q4, when they add in the price tag, the percentage wanting to replace it like for like vs. a cheaper less robust system actually goes up!

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Meanwhile in Q7, they ask the repsondants if we need nukes more/as much/ less than/ or never did as much has we did in the Cold war with the soviets: 39% think we need it as much or more than we did, 47% Thinks we need it less now, or never did. Which you'll note correlates nicely to the numbers for and against nukes in principle in Q2, and yet in Q3/Q4 we have clearly contradictory results when asked specifically about the Trident/Vanguard system.

So, do the sub sample sizes in Q2/3 make the error larger? Well of course it does, but you have to wonder if the nature of the question makes the outcome different as well.

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Now you see Renton, that analysis, taking a bit of time, not cherry picking, spinning or otherwise acting the c**t, is all good and well. What I can't be doing with is the glib black and whiteness that xbl presents as evidence. The cracker the other day was his "governments want to join the Euro even if their electors don't" bullshit, as if being technically correct on that issue matters a flying f**k.



So you'll excuse me - as someone who is totally against nuclear weapons on a UK never mind Scottish level - if on this occasion I play the man, not the ball.


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Yes, but in Q3, the raw data was 51% in favour of replacement of Trident or a less powerful system.

Why do you ALWAYS do this? You present yourself as the only voice of reason, the only one who understands, and anyone disagreeing is either stupid or duplicitous.

You know, the ONLY good thing about a no vote, the one thing that would keep me warm in this eventuality, would be the thought of you rocking backwards and forwards and sucking your thumb.

Imagine the results if they'd actually been given the facts about how useless and expensive a replacement for Trident would be?

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