renton Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Its all the unionists seem to have these days. Lies. I've been surprised of late, I didn't think the unionist media would hit these lows till next summer. I know it's the Mirror, and all, but it's not like he even offers a shred of evidence, he basically just says: "This is how things are, accept what I say uncritically" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Its all the unionists seem to have these days. Lies. I've been surprised of late, I didn't think the unionist media would hit these lows till next summer. It's not been a good period for the No campaign over the last few weeks. Two Labour stalwarts coming out in support of Yes, the appointment of Carmichael, scaremongering stories coming back to haunt them.... And next week it's the White Paper setting out the blueprint for independence from the Scottish government. We know the No campaign are going to attack it, but if they don't do it the right way it could massively back fire on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 It's not been a good period for the No campaign over the last few weeks. Two Labour stalwarts coming out in support of Yes, the appointment of Carmichael, scaremongering stories coming back to haunt them.... And next week it's the White Paper setting out the blueprint for independence from the Scottish government. We know the No campaign are going to attack it, but if they don't do it the right way it could massively back fire on them. And yet, all those bad news stories, AND the good news stories were just glossed over. Newsnet and Wings seem to be growing all the time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jambo-rocker Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Watching the film PleasantVille laston the weekend, I realised just how analogous this comes across to the debate idealistically. Everything might seem 'pleasant' right now and probably will remain fine under that illusion for years to come, but things really can be so much more once your eyes to become more open to the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 And yet, all those bad news stories, AND the good news stories were just glossed over. Newsnet and Wings seem to be growing all the time too. Is it just me or has the Better Together campaign in Scotland gone a bit quiet recently? It seems the scarestories have been left to Westminster Tory politicians coming up to Scotland to spout there nonsense then disappearing back down to London again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeGas Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Its all the unionists seem to have these days. Lies. I've been surprised of late, I didn't think the unionist media would hit these lows till next summer. Wish I could be there the moment you explode at your poster of Salmond. "65/35 for the Union!You can shove your positivity bullshit up your ass!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeGas Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 And yet, all those bad news stories, AND the good news stories were just glossed over. Newsnet and Wings seem to be growing all the time too. Why bother with Sturgeon and Salmond fantasy stories? Anyone can stand up and pretend certain fairy tales are going to come true. 'Let's pretend we're Norwegian',etc....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Is it just me or has the Better Together campaign in Scotland gone a bit quiet recently? It seems the scarestories have been left to Westminster Tory politicians coming up to Scotland to spout there nonsense then disappearing back down to London again. I think people are just getting a bit fed up with it. My friend made an interesting point yesterday. He says that he often links people to articles on the Yes Scotland page, as independence supporters are more inclined to post up articles and discussion than Unionists. And he made a good point. I popped on to the Project Fear facebook page for the first time in months, and my god its scary. Its just angry rant after angry rant. Streams of comments about Alex Salmond, and reeking of fear. The comments sections are illuminating. Compare...Yes Scotland on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/YesScotland?hc_location=stream We are doing this, we are doing that, this is happening, look who supports us. Meanwhile... Better Together on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bettertogetheruk?fref=ts Alex Salmond, Alex Salmond, the SNP, Alex Salmond, the SNP, the SNP, Alex Salmond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Should be interesting as you say. The paper is away to be put out, the greens have put their manifesto out, the SSP are launching theirs I believe so everyone should know roughly what we would look like if it is a yes. No however need to put their plans on the table, what 'extra powers' are we getting etc. I don't think the country will stand for 'trust us', we're not that daft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Think I might have spotted a positive case for the union on twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t1t3h Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Alistair Darling has just been on BBC news talking nonsense about Independence. It turns that we are too wee and too poor to go it alone, he also mentioned borders if we go Independent. Do Better Together members just stick to a script when on TV? They just say the same thing over and over again. He didn't give a positive case for the staying in the Union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-24986670 An independent Scotland would need to cut spending or increase taxes for its finances to be sustainable in the long term, a think tank has warned. The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) said an independent Scotland would face a "fiscal gap" of 1.9% of national income, compared to 0.8% for the UK. Slam! Bam! Certain statement! No caveats. I mean there is probably no point in reading more, but just for humour, lets do so.... The report, entitled Financial Sustainability of an Independent Scotland, says the exact size of the challenge would depend on factors such as how much debt Scotland inherited from the UK, the interest it paid on the debt, the age of the population and potential changes in oil revenues and immigration rates. Oh. So maybe not so certain. What else is there? The think tank analysis said "even under the most optimistic scenario" bringing national debt down would require something like a 6% reduction in total public spending, a rise of 9% on the basic rate of income tax or a VAT rate of 28%. Such measures would have to be taken over and above the tightening of public spending already planned by the UK government. However, independence could also give Scotland an opportunity to create an "optimal tax system" which could lead to some taxes being lower than the UK as a whole, the IFS said. Ah, so to bring the debt down, something which they have no idea how large will be, and something which the CDU is currently not doing, we will have to do these precise things. However, we might have lower taxes! Okay, what next? The analysis also noted that under devolution Scotland already had different spending priorities than the UK as a whole, and said this would continue post-independence, meaning budgets could be more focused on local needs. Ah. So actually, not all that bad? Finally, how about a comment from the author. Maybe a statement without caveats to back up the headlines? Gemma Tetlow, one of the authors of the report, said an independent Scotland would face "even tougher choices" than the UK as a whole over the long term. "Revenues from the North Sea will probably decline and official population projections suggest that the average age of the Scottish population will increase more rapidly than for the UK as a whole, putting greater upward pressure on many areas of public spending," she said. "As a result, to ensure long-run fiscal sustainability, an independent Scotland would need to cut public spending and/or increase other tax revenues more than would be required across the UK as a whole." Note the two words in bold there. "Probably" and "suggest". Seems to me that this report isn't quite suggesting what the headlines say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-24986670 Slam! Bam! Certain statement! No caveats. I mean there is probably no point in reading more, but just for humour, lets do so.... Oh. So maybe not so certain. What else is there? Ah, so to bring the debt down, something which they have no idea how large will be, and something which the CDU is currently not doing, we will have to do these precise things. However, we might have lower taxes! Okay, what next? Ah. So actually, not all that bad? Finally, how about a comment from the author. Maybe a statement without caveats to back up the headlines? Note the two words in bold there. "Probably" and "suggest". Seems to me that this report isn't quite suggesting what the headlines say... And using figures from the OBR for their report. Does anyone take the OBR seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 And using figures from the OBR for their report. Does anyone take the OBR seriously? HB, Ad Lib, The Pundit, Alistair Darling, Barrysnotter, DeeGas, etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGR Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bonus-kevin-maguire-opinion-true-2803526 The mirror seem to think he meant No. Kevin Maguire is an utter abomination of a political journalist. Can't believe he still gets printed in the New Statesman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 HB, Ad Lib, The Pundit, Alistair Darling, Barrysnotter, DeeGas, etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I wonder if the IFS is packed with folk with political leanings...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Brian Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 A joy to behold in my letter box as I got home tonight. A Better Together Leaflet The Best of Both Worlds For Scotland A successful Scottish Parliament Delivering For Scotland & The Strength Of Being Part Of The United Kingdom. (The ampersand is to scale!) Public Spend per head UK £10600 Scotland £11800 Best for Taxpayers Our Scottish Parliament has full powers on health and education backed by public spending that is £1200 higher than the UK average. As part of the UK we don't risk our school and hospital budgets on volatile oil prices. A successful Scottish Parliament Delivering For Scotland Our Scottish Parliament makes decisions on the issues that matter to us here in Scotland. We also benefit from the security and opportunity that comes from being a part of the United Kingdom. This gives us the best of both worlds. It is the best choice for our future. The Scottish Parliament is getting more powers, all the main political parties want to strengthen it further, but we can do this without losing the back up of being part of the UK economy. Hamish, Bridge of Allan "I'm very proud to be Scottish. For me this is about what is best for Scotland & that means keeping the strength of being a part of the United Kingdom" The Strength Of Being Part Of The United Kingdom Scotland's biggest trading partner is the rest of the United Kingdom. Even the SNP admit that Scottish businesses sell more to customers in the rest of the UK than to every other country in the world combined. Where we sell our goods. 66%(£45.5bn) Rest of UK 34%(£23.9bn) Rest of World Katie, Carnoustie "It's hard enough for young people to find a job at the moment. We should be looking for ways to increase opportunity, not making things difficult." Best for Jobs Almost 200000 jobs in Scotland depend on companies selling things like pensions, mortgages and insurance to the Rest of the UK.Nine out of ten of their customers are in the rest of the UK 5000 shipyard jobs depend on building ships for the Royal Navy. Thousands more jobs in communities rely on the UK defence industry. Over 9000 jobs depend on green energy investment - funded by the energy bills of over 20 million households across Britain. Keep The Pound Right now the UK Pound is our currency. Our interest rates are not controlled by a foreign country, as happens to small countries in the Eurozone. All that would change if we vote to leave the UK. Alex Salmond can't guarantee what currency we would use. The leaders of the independence campaign say we should join the Euro or set up a separate currency. Louise, Wishaw "Keeping the pound is about more than the money in our pockets. Giving up control of our interest rates to a foreign country means we would have no control over our mortgage bills." Best for Mortgages Interest Rates If we leave the UK Pound or join the Euro our interest rates would be set by a foreign country. We would lose all control of our mortgage rates. Jobs The vast majority of customers for Scottish firms are in the rest of the UK. If selling to them meant changing currency it would be bad for jobs. Bills If we tried to use the pound without the agreement of the rest of the UK it would mean far more expensive mortgages. Our banks would face bigger risks without the back up of the UK taxpayer Myths, Lies and half truths. All in all though it ticks all of the BT campaign boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Fucking BBC, what utter c***s. I loved the line that the white paper is out soon and "sure to some under tight scrutiny". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Did Ye Aye? Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 It has been said before, but both Bitter Together and the BBC are vile. Absolutely fucking vile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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