Independence - how would you vote?

[Baxter Parp]

 

 

They're nationalists!  They're voting yes!  What has party politics got to do with the price of cheese?  I'm asking whether you agree with your fellow nationalists concerns?

They're different policies, dimwit. If the Green party wins an election after independence they can implement their policies and good luck to them.

I kind of enjoy the confusion generated in idiot unionist's minds when the independence campaign doesn't act like a homogeneous blob, I must say.

[wingsoverperthshire]

THE SCOTTISH Cabinet minister leading the fight against independence has admitted he’s deeply worried the referendum is a “race that can still be lost.”

Lib Dem Scots Secretary Alistair Carmichael warned of the “huge danger” of complacency ahead of next year’s historic vote.

Despite the No vote having a consistent lead in polls, he believes the SNP can repeat their performance in 2011 when the party came from behind and smashed electoral records with a landslide win.

Carmichael said: “We are not a million miles from that. Labour were wrong to be complacent and we’d be wrong to be complacent.”

The Scottish Secretary is due to brief the UK Cabinet on his worries on Tuesday with a hard message – “the result is not in the bag”.

According to a senior Whitehall source, Carmichael will “put the fear of God” into PM David Cameron.

In an interview at his office in Whitehall, Carmichael also said the high number of “don’t knows” in polling could vote Yes.

The Orkney and Shetland MP added: “It’s still a live debate and still quite possible opinions can change. With the enormous resources the SNP have, they could still win this.”

He went on: “One of the messages I will give to Cabinet next week is that this is a debate that has a long way to run and anything is possible at the end of it. Nobody should take the United Kingdom for granted.

“I want them to understand my concerns about the possibility of a Yes vote. They are genuine. I see this as a race that can still be lost.”

Carmichael said one of the biggest dangers was the “emotional” appeal of nationalism beating rational
arguments against independence.

The UK government have released papers attacking SNP claims on currency, defence, pensions and the EU and Nato.

But he worries arguments of the heart could still win over don’t knows – and that those tempted to vote Yes for emotional reasons could make Scotland independent by accident.

He said: “If you know you shouldn’t do something but for an emotional reason you are going to do it anyway, then you won’t admit to pollsters what you are going to do.

“You’ll say you haven’t made your mind up, but know exactly what you are doing but won’t admit it because you are making a judgment that is emotional rather than intellectual.”

[xbl]

This isn't unionists moaning, this is nationalists moaning. Do you agree with your fellow nationalists concerns? If not, why not?

He is the most senior figure in the country when it comes currency. He's going to have a big say in the future of an independent Scotland, and his shadow agrees with him on this.

Yes or no question for nationalists:

Would you like Scotland to retain representation in the parliament where key fiscal policy decisions are made regarding our currency?

I say yes, what do you say? Yes or no question remember.

He's also a liar. As I pointed out in my post. But of course, thats something you two have in common.

And no, I don't pay attention to jim sillars. Our own currency is fine, id support one long term, but on day one, we stick with the pound. After that, it is a matter for who we elect in subsequent elections.

You've had this explained to you many times. Are you really this stupid, or just that dishonest?

[xbl]

They're nationalists! They're voting yes! What has party politics got to do with the price of cheese? I'm asking whether you agree with your fellow nationalists concerns?

I don't. If Britain was going to say no, they would have done so by now.

[DeeGas]

I've explained to you that they are anti-Scottish.

Keep it up please Wolfie,that attitude will win votes for the Union.

[lichtgilphead]

You're making things up now. I have never said once that the referendum should be cancelled. I am a huge supporter of this referendum and have been since day one, i can't wait for it and i can't wait to vote no.

Apologies if it wasn't you. However, one of your Unionist chums (thepundit? deegas?) specifically suggested that the referendum be cancelled because of the current bookies odds.

It's ironic, however, that you are trying to distance yourself from your fellow "No" voters at the same time that you are suggesting that all "Yes" voters should hold the same opinion on future currency options.

[thepundit]

Apologies if it wasn't you. However, one of your Unionist chums (thepundit? deegas?) specifically suggested that the referendum be cancelled because of the current bookies odds.

Wasn't me.

Denying people a say in this independence debate a Scottish Nationalist tactic, not mine.

[Lex]

They're different policies, dimwit. If the Green party wins an election after independence they can implement their policies and good luck to them.

I kind of enjoy the confusion generated in idiot unionist's minds when the independence campaign doesn't act like a homogeneous blob, I must say.

Ah personal abuse, the familiar resting place of the rattled. That's more like the debate on this thread, it was almost a bit civil there for 5 minutes!

I hate to break it to you Baxter, but this election has nothing to do with party politics. It's yes against no. People within the yes camp are very concerned about Salmonds fiscal policies. Are you?

He's also a liar. As I pointed out in my post. But of course, thats something you two have in common.

And no, I don't pay attention to jim sillars. Our own currency is fine, id support one long term, but on day one, we stick with the pound. After that, it is a matter for who we elect in subsequent elections.

You've had this explained to you many times. Are you really this stupid, or just that dishonest?

So, Osbourne's wrong, Sillar's is wrong, Ball's is wrong, the Green Party is wrong... and you're right?

Also nice to see you reverting to type, you almost had a democratic debate there. Almost.

Apologies if it wasn't you. However, one of your Unionist chums (thepundit? deegas?) specifically suggested that the referendum be cancelled because of the current bookies odds.

It's ironic, however, that you are trying to distance yourself from your fellow "No" voters at the same time that you are suggesting that all "Yes" voters should hold the same opinion on future currency options.

I'm not suggesting that all. There is clear divisions in both camps. For example, some people in the no camp want the referendum cancelled due to the lack of competition, whereas i want to go out and give the yes vote a right hammering. I respectfully disagree with the notion that the referendum should be cancelled.

I was just trying to gauge what side of the yes camp the yes voters on the forum were on. The side of the Salmond - ' we are using the pound, we are going to get a union everything's okay, nothing to see here ' - or the side of the Greens, Sillars, and several others - ' We need a plan b currency option, Salmond's sterling policy is a gift to the coalition, Osbourne and Balls have said we are unlikely to get a currency union '

Who's side are you on? Do you believe you need a plan b?

[xbl]

So, Osbourne's wrong, Sillar's is wrong, Ball's is wrong, the Green Party is wrong... and you're right?

Well yes. Osborne said that we would not be "allowed" to use the pound. And on that, he was wrong. He's had several chances to say No to a currency union, and each time, welches it.

I was just trying to gauge what side of the yes camp the yes voters on the forum were on. The side of the Salmond - ' we are using the pound, we are going to get a union everything's okay, nothing to see here ' - or the side of the Greens, Sillars, and several others - ' We need a plan b currency option, Salmond's sterling policy is a gift to the coalition, Osbourne and Balls have said we are unlikely to get a currency union '

Who's side are you on? Do you believe you need a plan b?

We're all on the same side, we all want independence.

ETA, I've said at least THREE times now what plan B is. Plan B is using the pound. And given that, it also means we'll be debt free. After all, if we don't get the assets, we don't get the debts.

[Lex]

Well yes. Osborne said that we would not be "allowed" to use the pound. And on that, he was wrong. He's had several chances to say No to a currency union, and each time, welches it.

We're all on the same side, we all want independence.

ETA, I've said at least THREE times now what plan B is. Plan B is using the pound. And given that, it also means we'll be debt free. After all, if we don't get the assets, we don't get the debts.

I don't know your qualifications and experience, however i'm willing to bet they amount to less than the sum of a chancellor, a shadow chancellor, a respected political party and one of the founding fathers of the SNP. Therefore i'm sure you understand why i respect their opinion more than i respect yours. Do you?

So plan A is using the pound, and plan B is using the pound? What's plan C then?

[Colkitto]

The only debate is whether you get a currency union or not, and both Osbourne (chancellor) and Balls (shadow chancellor) have said this is unlikely.

"Unlikely" ? Why don't they just put this to bed right now and say NO? It's as simple as that, just say in the event of Scottish independence it's a NO!

[xbl]

I don't know your qualifications and experience, however i'm willing to bet they amount to less than the sum of a chancellor, a shadow chancellor, a respected political party and one of the founding fathers of the SNP. Therefore i'm sure you understand why i respect their opinion more than i respect yours. Do you?

So plan A is using the pound, and plan B is using the pound? What's plan C then?

We don't need one. Why would we need one? We're going to be using the pound. The British literally cannot stop us.

As for the qualifications, the chancellor has been shown up as a liar on this issue, as I've already pointed out several times. Jim Sillars is a concern troll. He's basically Ad Lib. I actually agree that a Scottish currency is a good idea in the future, but not on day one.

[lichtgilphead]

I was just trying to gauge what side of the yes camp the yes voters on the forum were on. The side of the Salmond - ' we are using the pound, we are going to get a union everything's okay, nothing to see here ' - or the side of the Greens, Sillars, and several others - ' We need a plan b currency option, Salmond's sterling policy is a gift to the coalition, Osbourne and Balls have said we are unlikely to get a currency union '

Who's side are you on? Do you believe you need a plan b?

I believe in independence for Scotland. On day 1, my opinion is that we should continue to use the pound, irrespective of whether we are in a formal currency union with the rUK or not.

After that, the future is in our own hands. The currency question will be resolved by the policies of the governments that we elect in the future. They will be free to make decisions based upon their perception of what is best for Scotland. I consider this to be an improvement on the current situation where the needs of the South-East corner of the UK are always elevated above the needs of the other English regions, Wales, NI & Scotland

[Baxter Parp]

 

 

Ah personal abuse, the familiar resting place of the rattled.  That's more like the debate on this thread, it was almost a bit civil there for 5 minutes!

 

I hate to break it to you Baxter, but this election has nothing to do with party politics.  It's yes against no.  People within the yes camp are very concerned about Salmonds fiscal policies.  Are you?

I hate to break it to you but the campaign for independence is made up of different parties, all of which have different policies.

[thepundit]

We don't need one. Why would we need one? We're going to be using the pound. The British literally cannot stop us.

Why aren't the SNP saying this then?

And your other claim that if Scotland don't get the pound they'll have no debt is also something that the SNP have never said either but hey ho.

[lichtgilphead]

I don't know your qualifications and experience, however i'm willing to bet they amount to less than the sum of a chancellor, a shadow chancellor, a respected political party and one of the founding fathers of the SNP. Therefore i'm sure you understand why i respect their opinion more than i respect yours. Do you?

So plan A is using the pound, and plan B is using the pound? What's plan C then?

Jim Sillars = One of the founding fathers of the SNP?

He was only an SNP member for around 10 years in the 80's/90's. He's a ex-Labour MP who joined the SNP only to spit the dummy when he fell out with Eck and has sniped at the party from the sidelines ever since.

Some "founding father"

[Baxter Parp]

Jim Sillars = One of the founding fathers of the SNP?

 

He was only an SNP member for around 10 years in the 80's/90's. He's a ex-Labour MP who joined the SNP only to spit the dummy when he fell out with Eck and has sniped at the party from the sidelines ever since.

 

Some "founding father"

Don't expect a unionist to know anything about facts and history and all that rot.

[Baxter Parp]

 

Why aren't the SNP saying this then?

 

And your other claim that if Scotland don't get the pound they'll have no debt is also something that the SNP have never said either but hey ho.

The pound sterling is a freely tradeable currency, the rUK or the BoE can't actually stop any country from using it. Inconvenient fact, that.

[Lex]

Jim Sillars = One of the founding fathers of the SNP?

He was only an SNP member for around 10 years in the 80's/90's. He's a ex-Labour MP who joined the SNP only to spit the dummy when he fell out with Eck and has sniped at the party from the sidelines ever since.

Some "founding father"

He played a major part in establishing the party in the centre left and it then becoming a major party in Scotland. This is one of the reasons he reached the lofty heights of deputy leader, and was expected to stand for and win the leadership in the 90's, but declined.

Perhaps the term founding father wasn't correct, but he was a big player in the SNP for many years, and is a prominent nationalist.

[lichtgilphead]

Don't expect a unionist to know anything about facts and history and all that rot.

Did you hear Edwina Currie on the radio (Radio 4 - Any Questions?) a few weeks ago? She claimed to remember Salmond as a Labour MP who changed his views. No-one else on the programme realised that she was confusing Salmond with Sillars.

With that standard of information, it's not surprising that the pollsters are finding high levels of "Don't Knows" out there. The Yes Campaign must work at getting relevant information out there.