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Independence - how would you vote?


Wee Bully

Independence - how would you vote  

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It's in the times behind a paywall, but spotted it in the Guardian paywall, apparently Sir John major is quoted as the following:


Sir John — the last Conservative leader to win a general election outright, 21 years ago — said it was in Tory interests for Scotland to vote to break with the rest of the UK.

He added that while independence might suit the Conservatives politically it would be a disaster for the United Kingdom. “Somewhere down the line we have mislaid our Scottish votes,” he said. “From a purely political point of view we would be better off without Scotland, but the UK would not.

“If Scotland went, the UK would be diminished. Heaven knows what we would do for an Army without Scotland. And there is a huge amount of Scottish talent.”

I love that bit in bold, gives you some sense of what the establishment views us Scots as: You can imagine some old cavalry colonel in his club, brandy in hand, feet up over a Bengal Tiger hide saying: "Good god Carstairs, that blighter Salmond is trying to do away with our cannon fodder, what"

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I believe we should be comparing ourselves to the likes of Norway rather than England in the referendum debate.

The line in the article about Norway having a bigger shipbuilding industry than Scotland should be more widely known.

The Unionists are peddling the view that if we leave the UK our shipbuilding industry will diminish.

If people can see similar countries like Norway can survive with a thriving ship building industry then they won't be so taken in with Unionist scaremongering

The problem is that shipbuilding is seen monomaniacally through the lens of the military contracts, there is no appetite within BAE systems to build civilian shipping (or even military shipping - they would ditch the ship building if they could) yet you imagine that there would be a call for high quality, specialised civilian shipping that we'd be good at. Oil and Gas equipment, ice breakers, hell, offshore windmills if it came to it.

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The problem is that shipbuilding is seen monomaniacally through the lens of the military contracts, there is no appetite within BAE systems to build civilian shipping (or even military shipping - they would ditch the ship building if they could) yet you imagine that there would be a call for high quality, specialised civilian shipping that we'd be good at. Oil and Gas equipment, ice breakers, hell, offshore windmills if it came to it.

I confess, I had to look up monomaniacally :)

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Sturgeon - "Other countries similar in size to Scotland, like Norway, have shipbuilding industries much bigger than ours. If Scotland becomes independent, it will be for Scottish governments, working with industry, to support our shipyards - through our own naval procurement, support for exports and where appropriate, diversification away from military contracts - and speaking for the government I am part of, we would certainly do so. But right now, responsibility lies with the UK government."

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Interesting to see the leader of the old Strathclyde Council (died in the wool Labour) explain why he's voting Yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kovCyt8cRvE

Two things that struck me: a) since I agree with everything he says, I don't understand how so many Labour voters can say they want more left leaning policies but insist on staying part of a right wing UK when given the choice. Vote Yes and get Labour or a left of centre grouping of some sort for the foreseeable.

and b) why can't we all be as calm (wise?) as this old fella.

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1000 shipyard jobs to go at either Govan, Scotstoun, Plymouth or Portsmouth.

A well-placed source has said that the UK government was "acutely conscious of the politics of the Clyde" ahead of next year's referendum on Scottish independence.

So if there was no referendum we'd be having more job losses in Scotland. looks like once again it's the SNP who have saved these jobs.

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1000 shipyard jobs to go at either Govan, Scotstoun, Plymouth or Portsmouth.

A well-placed source has said that the UK government was "acutely conscious of the politics of the Clyde" ahead of next year's referendum on Scottish independence.

So if there was no referendum we'd be having more job losses in Scotland. looks like once again it's the SNP who have saved these jobs.

post-35247-13836735829718_thumb.jpg

"UK are not going to act against Scotland until Scotland decides to stay in UK." -Blair McDougall

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Scotland will get its fair share of the ship building work within the UK.

Are the separatists now going to claim that every bit of good news coming Scotlands way from the UK Government is only because of the inde referendum.or that as soon as Scotland votes to stay in the Union the Government will treat Scotland badly!?

:lol:

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1000 shipyard jobs to go at either Govan, Scotstoun, Plymouth or Portsmouth.

A well-placed source has said that the UK government was "acutely conscious of the politics of the Clyde" ahead of next year's referendum on Scottish independence.

So if there was no referendum we'd be having more job losses in Scotland. looks like once again it's the SNP who have saved these jobs.

The problem of reliance entirely on defence contracts is an ever contracting order book. Every defence order since the cold war ended has been cut in terms of numbers, every new class of ship is more long lived than the last.

Labour will try to spin this as 'leave the Union, lose jobs' but in reality, it's pretty much an inevitability of staying within the UK establishment. I'll give you good oddsthat the T-26 is the last generation of warship built in the UK. These jobs are going now, not post independence, not due to the lack of work afforded by a Scottish Navy, but because of the lack of work afforded by the British Navy.

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I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm actually starting to hate Labour more than the Tories. With the Tories you at least know what you're getting; a party that doesn't give a damn about Scotland and who when it comes to policy making won't even have us in their thoughts. But the Scots associated with Labour actually make me more angry when I watch them on T.V. Sarwar and Lamont are two of the most unsavoury politicians I've ever come across, and they would rather vote against independence because Alex Salmond supports it and not because they believe it will mean Scots are worse off as a result.

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If ships don't get ordered, shipyards close. Thats what happens. Will the Scottish Navy be investing in some ships? Where is the money coming from? (and what currency would it be?...) I read that in the event of a Yes vote, Scotland wouldn't even have defence planes with adequate radar. And how many Scots would join the Armed Forces given about 90% of them are Unionists?.. I read that of a platoon of 32 soldiers who returned from Afghanistan in 2013 were asked if they would join a Scottish defence force and 30 said no.

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I read that of a platoon of 32 soldiers who returned from Afghanistan is 2013 were asked if they would join a Scottish defence force and 30 said no.

Excellent, they'll cost less to house and feed when they're on the dole.

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