Independence - how would you vote?

[garethbalesstupidface]

you just dont accept you could possibly have been wrong like I knew you wouldnt. youre very predictable.

[xbl]

If you really want me to be a pedant, it's not in the power of the SNP at all to hold a referendum in a future parliament. The Edinburgh Agreement only grants them a temporary power to ask a single question before the end of 2014.

Remember the old days when you would have been pedantic about terms like, ooooh, "over 8300"?

you just dont accept you could possibly have been wrong like I knew you wouldnt. youre very predictable.

Nobody from the Glasgow Uni law squad has every been wrong about anything.

[xbl]

Incidentally, do the Unionists have nothing to say about Miliband telling actual lies about the NHS and Scotland? Or does honesty only go so far?

[glasgow-sheep]

Incidentally, do the Unionists have nothing to say about Miliband telling actual lies about the NHS and Scotland? Or does honesty only go so far?

Surely the "Truth Team" will be onto this in a flash.....

[H_B]

Evidence is compelling, isn't it?

Yes voters just look like little children stamping their feet because no one wants to play rounders with them. You in particular with yur "I'm going to fold my arms and put on my angry face after it's a No".

It's a democracy. If people want what you are selling they will vote for it and we will become Independent. That will be fine. It will be just as fine if people don't want what Yes are punting as say "Nah, no thanks".

We will continue quite happily in either case.

[Ad Lib]

Remember the old days when you would have been pedantic about terms like, ooooh, "over 8300"?

Have the police clarified their figure to indicate anything significantly over that amount? Please note I'm asking about the same policing organisation? Are you saying they have admitted to misleading the public?

Nobody from the Glasgow Uni law squad has every been wrong about anything.

This is just brazenly untrue. Several of the "Glasgow Uni law squad" have admitted quite up-front and explicitly in situations where they have been found to be in error.

Incidentally, do the Unionists have nothing to say about Miliband telling actual lies about the NHS and Scotland? Or does honesty only go so far?

What's he been saying about the NHS and Scotland? Not really paying attention to the Labour Conference.

I'd be inclined to say that, barring any major change in circumstances, the issue would be settled for at least 10-20 years or so. If we were to hold a second referendum close to this one, I reckon folk would just get pissed off at the perception that we were just asking until we got the answer we wanted.

Separate to this is the question of if we will ever get the chance to have an other referendum. I don't see it happening again until (at least) the next time there's a pro-independence majority at Holyrood. I'd be extremely surprised if that was to happen in the first few elections after a no vote. Swampy was very right a few pages back when he said that for a hell of a lot of people, maybe even a majority of voters, this is the only vote on independence they will ever cast.

I agree with the first half of your analysis but not the second. I think the SNP have killed Holyrood coalitions stone dead for a generation by proving how stable minority government can be as much as anything else. That's inevitably going to polarise Holyrood for years to come, and I therefore see the SNP being returned quite comfortably as the largest party even in the event of a No vote in 2014 and probably with a good chance at a majority either in 2016, 2020 or 2024. If, as xbl believes, there won't be a real movement for further powers, it's almost inevitable that the question of another referendum will remain on the agenda 10-20 years down the road. I'd actually say another independence referendum is less likely in our lifetimes only if more powers are delivered before 2017-18.

[xbl]

Ad Lib - Apparently doesn't read the news.

[Enigma]

I'd think we we would need a good portion of the baby boomers to die off before we hold another referendum. 25 years I'd say.

[garethbalesstupidface]

Have the police clarified their figure to indicate anything significantly over that amount? Please note I'm asking about the same policing organisation? Are you saying they have admitted to misleading the public?

This is just brazenly untrue. Several of the "Glasgow Uni law squad" have admitted quite up-front and explicitly in situations where they have been found to be in error.

What's he been saying about the NHS and Scotland? Not really paying attention to the Labour Conference.

I agree with the first half of your analysis but not the second. I think the SNP have killed Holyrood coalitions stone dead for a generation by proving how stable minority government can be as much as anything else. That's inevitably going to polarise Holyrood for years to come, and I therefore see the SNP being returned quite comfortably as the largest party even in the event of a No vote in 2014 and probably with a good chance at a majority either in 2016, 2020 or 2024. If, as xbl believes, there won't be a real movement for further powers, it's almost inevitable that the question of another referendum will remain on the agenda 10-20 years down the road. I'd actually say another independence referendum is less likely in our lifetimes only if more powers are delivered before 2017-18.

happy to admit theyre wrong, except you seemingly, after being proven wrong you are conveniently glossing over it. go on ad lib go out on a limb admit you were wrong, salmond didnt say that, you misquoted him, then assigned an incorrect assumption of what he meant when he didnt say what you said he did.

[Ad Lib]

Ad Lib - Apparently doesn't read the news.

I'm looking on the BBC now. I can't see anything. What has he said about the NHS and Scotland? I know he got in a pickle a few days ago for saying that in Wales Labour were doing a cracking job on the NHS then couldn't name the Welsh Assembly's Health Minister, but what is it you're talking about here?

[xbl]

I see Ad Lib is also clinging to the idea that were were only "circa" 8300 at the march and rally. I'm glad he posts less at the moment. The thread is just that little bit less toxic and dishonest.

[harry94]

Why? I believe we will win, but if somehow it is a no, then we need to prove to people that they were wrong to vote no. The only way to do that is to let Scotland suffer a bit. Its the only way they will learn.

I don't think it's rational to want to hurt people (including yourself) to try to make a point that will be lost anyway on most of the population. Even if I disagree with the decision from the electorate I'd hope I was wrong and want a genuinely bright future for my family and friends.

Your sort of mentality is destructive and this 'us and them' idea will be interpreted as provocative. The best way to engage people is to avoid that.

[xbl]

I'm looking on the BBC now. I can't see anything. What has he said about the NHS and Scotland? I know he got in a pickle a few days ago for saying that in Wales Labour were doing a cracking job on the NHS then couldn't name the Welsh Assembly's Health Minister, but what is it you're talking about here?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10331975/Ed-Miliband-makes-emotional-case-for-Scotland-in-the-UK.html

[xbl]

I don't think it's rational to want to hurt people (including yourself) to try to make a point that will be lost anyway on most of the population. Even if I disagree with the decision from the electorate I'd hope I was wrong and want a genuinely bright future for my family and friends.

Your sort of mentality is destructive and this 'us and them' idea will be interpreted as provocative. The best way to engage people is to avoid that.

Other people can do engaging. I am not a political person, as I am only interested in independence. No independence, I see no reason to get involved in any politics, I probably won't even bother to vote.

[garethbalesstupidface]

he is the most uptight anally retentive pedantic elitist racist snob on here by a million miles and a guy who is as judgemental as he is with as unhealthy a respect for authority as he has and such an inflated opinion of his own self worth and a sneeringly arrogant condescending view of other people he views as beneath him really shouldn't be going into the legal profession, accountancy or something would be more up his street. he is also blatantly a unionist who is too ashamed to admit it publicly.

wanting scots to suffer to prove you were right is daft though xbl

[Ad Lib]

I see Ad Lib is also clinging to the idea that were were only "circa" 8300 at the march and rally. I'm glad he posts less at the moment. The thread is just that little bit less toxic and dishonest.

I'm re-asserting that the police have not shied away from that estimate. Or do you have proof of a revised figure issued by the same source?

[garethbalesstupidface]

Other people can do engaging. I am not a political person, as I am only interested in independence. No independence, I see no reason to get involved in any politics, I probably won't even bother to vote.

I agree with this though, theres no point voting in uk general elections if youre scottish, we are a total irrelevance, if its a no vote next year I will go back to not paying much attention or having any involvement as it doesnt matter to us we just get the government middle england gives us.

[garethbalesstupidface]

I'm re-asserting that the police have not shied away from that estimate. Or do you have proof of a revised figure issued by the same source?

the police dont shy away from estimates they just make them and move on. you were told on this thread how things like that occur and have conveniently ignored it as you do anything that shows you may be incorrect, they are covering their own arses.

[renton]

I'm looking on the BBC now. I can't see anything. What has he said about the NHS and Scotland? I know he got in a pickle a few days ago for saying that in Wales Labour were doing a cracking job on the NHS then couldn't name the Welsh Assembly's Health Minister, but what is it you're talking about here?

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/8074-miliband-nhs-blunder-a-gift-for-yes-campaign

[Ad Lib]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10331975/Ed-Miliband-makes-emotional-case-for-Scotland-in-the-UK.html

Aha thanks. Amusing but not altogether surprising. Labour's attitude towards devolution has always had a whiff of "throw them some meat and don't bother to check if it's mutton or lamb"