Mr Rational Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Is there any info on what the Scottish Military would comprise of in an independent Scotland? Army / Air Force / Navy, numbers, bases, aircraft, ships etc? http://www.referendum.ed.ac.uk/a-scottish-defence-model-learning-from-others/ nice wee article. As for numbers, impossible to tell exactly, but there will have to be more focus on maritime and air assets. The defence force would look pretty much what we have now, an armoured brigade based on the Royal regiment, marines of some sort, prob based in Arbroath strangely enough and would likely specialise in oil rig security and a couple of airfields. Combined Scottish HQ based at Faslane IIRC. The navy would focus more on oil/fisheries protection, if we are in NATO and I see no reason why we wouldn't, then expect a couple of frigates as well to help keep the G-I-UK gap open. I believe that each NATO navy specialises in certain areas, minesweeping etc, we should find a wee niche for us and become world leader. Should keep the shipyards in orders for a few years.... Intelligence and exercise areas would be shared with our neighbours (which currently happens). It will all be released in November though with the white paper, it's guess work until then and that goes for everyone. I would pay attention to Renton though, he seems to have the best knowledge about defence I have seen on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 http://www.rusi.org/news/ref:N507BDE949F81D/#.UgX9btBwbIW Scottish Navy: surface fleet of between twenty and twenty-five ships including Type 23-class frigates and Mine Counter Measure vessels. No submarines. Approximately 1,500-2,000 personnel. Based at Faslane and a reinstated Rosyth. Cost £650 million per annum. Scottish Air Force: around sixty aircraft including BAE Hawk (notably operated by the 'Red Arrows'), C-130 Hercules, Chinook and Sea King helicopters. No Typhoons or Tornados. 1,750-2,250 personnel organised into six operational squadrons. Based at Lossiemouth and either reviving Leuchars, or converting civilian airports to dual purpose military bases. Cost £370 million per annum. Scottish Army: 10,000-12,500 personnel, dependent on detailed organisation. Including a brigade-sized force, three combat battalions plus supporting arms, allowing it to deploy and sustain itself in a combat zone. Additional troops for internal duties, plus back-up for deployed regular troops, might be provided by a Territorial Army brigade, comprising three battalions plus supporting arms. Special Forces seventy-five-plus strong. Restoration of some of the traditional Scottish regiments which were disbanded in 2004. Cost £820 million per annum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 http://www.rusi.org/news/ref:N507BDE949F81D/#.UgX9btBwbIW Scottish Navy: surface fleet of between twenty and twenty-five ships including Type 23-class frigates and Mine Counter Measure vessels. No submarines. Approximately 1,500-2,000 personnel. Based at Faslane and a reinstated Rosyth. Cost £650 million per annum. Scottish Air Force: around sixty aircraft including BAE Hawk (notably operated by the 'Red Arrows'), C-130 Hercules, Chinook and Sea King helicopters. No Typhoons or Tornados. 1,750-2,250 personnel organised into six operational squadrons. Based at Lossiemouth and either reviving Leuchars, or converting civilian airports to dual purpose military bases. Cost £370 million per annum. Scottish Army: 10,000-12,500 personnel, dependent on detailed organisation. Including a brigade-sized force, three combat battalions plus supporting arms, allowing it to deploy and sustain itself in a combat zone. Additional troops for internal duties, plus back-up for deployed regular troops, might be provided by a Territorial Army brigade, comprising three battalions plus supporting arms. Special Forces seventy-five-plus strong. Restoration of some of the traditional Scottish regiments which were disbanded in 2004. Cost £820 million per annum. That adds up to about 1.9Bn, the SNP have put out a figure of around 2.5Bn p.a. as an estimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyerTon Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 http://www.rusi.org/news/ref:N507BDE949F81D/#.UgX9btBwbIW Scottish Air Force: around sixty aircraft including BAE Hawk (notably operated by the 'Red Arrows'), C-130 Hercules, Chinook and Sea King helicopters. No Typhoons or Tornados. 1,750-2,250 personnel organised into six operational squadrons. Based at Lossiemouth and either reviving Leuchars, or converting civilian airports to dual purpose military bases. Cost £370 million per annum. What aircraft would do QRA? If no Typhoons or Tornados? Buy in F16's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 In terms of fast jets they'd be better buying in a couple dozen SAAB Gripens. Also, reinstating some fom of MPA aircraft to replace nimrod. As it is I don't think they'd let the airforce go without fast jets. No point keeping any Tornados but keep one squadron of typhoons and use it for qra/maritime strike out of lossiemouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 What aircraft would do QRA? If no Typhoons or Tornados? Buy in F16's? Quite, the budget's too low. As far as I recall the plan is to retain some Typhoons and Tornados. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Em? Not one independence supporter has taken me up on my charity bet offer? Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Interestingly the RUSI paper gives no evidence as to why keeping Typhoons or even the more modest F16 would be beyond the saf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim O'Grady Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I've read all the pro's & con's for the Independence Day & I think they should just award the decision to whichever gets to 1000 votes in this P&B thread Poll 1st. Makes the fairest sense to me! Oh & if it's a draw nae penalties! Grimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie guevara Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Em? Not one independence supporter has taken me up on my charity bet offer? Why not? Because in an independent Scotland charities won't have to rely on bets. Everyone will be so rich that money will just fall out their pockets and trickle down to the poor and needy just like the 1980s under Thatcher and Reagan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie guevara Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Took me ages to come to a decision on this. It's very difficult. I really don't think there will be a major economic consequence either way to voting yes though. So my decision is really based on how I feel. And the more I see of English folk the more I realise I'm just not like them. It just seems like everyone in England is either a crazy right-winger, crazy left-winger or crazy posh person. Maybe they're not but I just wouldn't know. I've only been there a few times. I'm just not like them and I don't think most Scottish people are. English people seem foreign to me. So I would vote yes. I think we're different people and so should be different countries. Jeepers. That's a whole can of worms there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Em? Not one independence supporter has taken me up on my charity bet offer? Why not? that's prob because nobody takes you seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 https://twitter.com/YesEdinburghEas Anyhoo, for the nats on here esp in the Lothians, can you give a follow to this group please, forthcoming events will be advertised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Because in an independent Scotland charities won't have to rely on bets. Everyone will be so rich that money will just fall out their pockets and trickle down to the poor and needy just like the 1980s under Thatcher and Reagan. We can take the charity out of it if you want? I'm determined to find one nationalist who actually believes they're going to win. Someone, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Em? Not one independence supporter has taken me up on my charity bet offer? Why not? You're a knob. HTH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 You're a knob. HTH! Not surprised to see personal abuse coming from the nats, when confronted with bad news it seems to be their go to response. It's a shame you've decided to let yourself and your cause down in this way. Back to the politics. Is there anyone who believe they're going to win? There must be someone, surely? There's over 300 people voted yes on this site alone, one of them must believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Not surprised to see personal abuse coming from the nats, when confronted with bad news it seems to be their go to response. It's a shame you've decided to let yourself and your cause down in this way. I don't represent my cause, you silly fucker. Are you trying to provide irrefutable evidence of your knobularity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Not surprised to see personal abuse coming from the nats, when confronted with bad news it seems to be their go to response. It's a shame you've decided to let yourself and your cause down in this way. Back to the politics. Is there anyone who believe they're going to win? There must be someone, surely? There's over 300 people voted yes on this site alone, one of them must believe? I believe we can do it, otherwise I would be out playing golf or going to the fitba' just now. As for your attention seeking post about 'someone please play with me', well as I said, I reckon most folk on here think you would back out and not pay yer share. Before you ask, I've already placed a bet on here with Reynard, we both trust each other to pony up, something I don't with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Back to the politics. Is there anyone who believe they're going to win? There must be someone, surely? There's over 300 people voted yes on this site alone, one of them must believe? Why would I even consider a bet at evens with someone I don't know on a football forum when I already have £20 at 9/2 with Ladbrokes? Idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 In terms of fast jets they'd be better buying in a couple dozen SAAB Gripens. Also, reinstating some fom of MPA aircraft to replace nimrod. As it is I don't think they'd let the airforce go without fast jets. No point keeping any Tornados but keep one squadron of typhoons and use it for qra/maritime strike out of Lossiemouth back on track, I believe a few countries already rent Gripens, the Czech Rep IIRC. As you said, I cant see us having no fast jests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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