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Independence - how would you vote?


Wee Bully

Independence - how would you vote  

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Still playing dim I see.

The British people family,as if you didn't know.

Many Unionists feel it,it is a big part of their identity and I suspect it matters not how many times Rab C and Co wave the Saltire,exaggerate the North South divide and generally try to cause trouble it will not be enough to make Brits lose the British part of their i d e n t i t y.

http://academia.edu/239928/The_Decline_of_Britishness_in_Scotland_since_1979 :o

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Hello Pink Freud,i can blame them for trying at every opportunity to give the impression all of England is stinking rich,employed and Scottish hating b*****ds.

There is a blatant tactic by the SNP and Co to demonise England,to create a total 'them and us' bunker mentality.

It is simply not a true reflection of the Union.

Millions of English have it every bit as hard as the worse off Scottish people/areas.

The Rab C led "divide campaign".

I assume (going by the polls) many Scots see it for the ridiculous exaggeration it is.

I don't agree - the SNP hasn't tried to demonise England, it's calling it as it sees it.

I'm instinctively against anything that divides people, that's why I was strongly in the NO camp for years. However, when it became apparent to me that those who were really interested in divide and rule were already in power, and extremely unlikely to get dislodged, it became a no brainer. The reason I would vote YES is for the very reasons that you describe. It's a damn shame that England is split as well, but Scotland has a chance to do something really special here, and move away from the class and wealth structure that Westminster perpetuates.

You only have to read the press down here to realise that they are doing all they can to stir up anti Scottish resentment. Most English people that I know and deal with - and I mean the VAST majority - don't seem to hate the Scots at all, and I live in a very middle class, prosperous area.

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I couldn't care less what "many unionists feel". They will still be "British", if that matters to them, after Scotland gains political independence. If they will not listen to reason and understand that, then tough. Let them beel.

Uncompromising British Nationalism is a tiny minority, underclass sport. Their emotional and intellectual immaturity is not an excuse for Scotland to continue to be governed by a corrupt and wholly inappropriate Westminster establishment.

They will blatantly not be part of a British Union and that is what British Unionists are talking about.

They respect and understand the Scottish Saltire country thing because they are part of that too.

On the other hand the Scottish nationalists refuse to respect or get the Union thing.

This dangerous Scottish nationalism,the border building Scottish nationalism scream separatism at a time when our island should blatantly remain United.

For the good of Scotland and the rest of our islands we should work towards working Together in this unsettled world that surrounds us.

300 years of United Kingdom and some Scottish nationalist trouble makers want to break it up,as if it 300 years didn't happen.

It's disgusting.

Better Together.

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Hello Pink Freud,i can blame them for trying at every opportunity to give the impression all of England is stinking rich,employed and Scottish hating b*****ds.

There is a blatant tactic by the SNP and Co to demonise England,to create a total 'them and us' bunker mentality.

It is simply not a true reflection of the Union.

Millions of English have it every bit as hard as the worse off Scottish people/areas.

The Rab C led "divide campaign".

I assume (going by the polls) many Scots see it for the ridiculous exaggeration it is.

Stop trying to play the "suffer together" card.

I doubt whether any Independence minded person has any particular grievance with ordinary working people anywhere else in these Islands, or the Republic of Ireland, or Bulgaria or the man on the street in Ulan Bator for that matter! It's shite being poor, disenfranchised and feeling that you have no control over your own destiny. Let's not f**k about here with your cliched 300 years of history pish. If you were a peasant working the land for a laird in 1780, some illiterate kid in a dark satanic Lancashire mill in 1880, or an unemployed Clydebank shipyard worker in 1980 waving a wee paper union flag like we'll all be prompted to do next week does not alter the fact that things were/are shite for these examples......and now.

How long do we wait for things to improve? Gideon should have had the debt repaid by round about now, but in fact he's borrowing more and the UK is bankrupt. The cuts haven't even begun in earnest but we already have the bedroom tax, targeted attacks on the disabled, people on zero hour contracts and the like. How long do we wait for things to turn around? Five, ten, twenty years? Longer?

We've the prospect of another Tory Government taking us out of Europe (possibly in cahoots with the risible UKIP). Legislation in the pieline to ban non English MPs from voting on English issues, so you can rule out Labour riding out to the rescue (!) if you're that way inclined. We'd have a puppet Labour administration in office, but not in power having policy after policy defeated by the English right. Labour need Scottish seats .How would that help our common friends over the nation? Be even worse for Scotland as Barnett gets obliterated with right wing policies ripping the shit out of any consequentials.

We've got a chance to do things our own way, elect a Government that we want to enact policies that the Scottish people approve of. That is simply not going to happen under the current arrangements, or under halfbaked wishy washy unspecified "more powers". England has been moving steadily right for years. We have not, but that's not to say we wouldn't have a conservative government after independence. We could vote them out though. Unlike now.

No amount of patriotic drivel can cover the fact the United Kingdom has, and is increasingly being run by an elite, for an elite. Enjoy dreaming of Waterloo or Kate and Wills (themselves an elite) newborn because in the greater scheme of things it actually means the square root of f**k all.

For f**k sake Deegas open your eyes.

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I don't agree - the SNP hasn't tried to demonise England, it's calling it as it sees it.

I'm instinctively against anything that divides people, that's why I was strongly in the NO camp for years. However, when it became apparent to me that those who were really interested in divide and rule were already in power, and extremely unlikely to get dislodged, it became a no brainer. The reason I would vote YES is for the very reasons that you describe. It's a damn shame that England is split as well, but Scotland has a chance to do something really special here, and move away from the class and wealth structure that Westminster perpetuates.

You only have to read the press down here to realise that they are doing all they can to stir up anti Scottish resentment. Most English people that I know and deal with - and I mean the VAST majority - don't seem to hate the Scots at all, and I live in a very middle class, prosperous area.

Then you exaggerate the wealth of England compared to Scotland too.

Just because the majority of your meetings with English are from the middle class,it does not mean the majority of English are just that.

By the way,Scotland is still blatantly "split".

Shame for Salmond and Co and the section of sanctimonious grinning right wing that follow him.

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Correct. If we vote Yes we'll just have corrupt Holyrood governments that more than 70% of Scotland didn't vote for ruling over us instead. I gently remind you that the SNP only have a mandate from 45% of those who voted and about 25% of those eligible to vote in this country.

Westminster is corrupt, and beyond repair, but let's not pretend Holyrood is a panacea.

1. An Independent Scotland will be governed by the people that the majority of the people of Scotland decide they want to govern Scotland.

2. That will be so much better than the past and status quo in which as part of the UK, Scotland has been and is governed by governments chosen by members of the corrupt wealthy Oxbridge mafia rather than the people of Scotland.

3. A small nation of around 5million people within a reasonably short and easy travel distance of its parliament will have much more control over its government, unlike the UK with population of around 68million who are and always have been divided and ruled for the benefit of the wealthy corrupt.

4. I could go on but i will not as i don't want to bore everyone with too many facts.

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Then you exaggerate the wealth of England compared to Scotland too.

Just because the majority of your meetings with English are from the middle class,it does not mean the majority of English are just that.

By the way,Scotland is still blatantly "split".

Shame for Salmond and Co and the section of sanctimonious grinning right wing that follow him.

I only care about Scotland, the union isn't working for Scotland. they care more about London and the south east of England

Couldn't really care less about the rest of the UK.

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1. An Independent Scotland will be governed by the people that the majority of the people of Scotland decide they want to govern Scotland.

No it won't. This has never happened. I refer you to the particulars of the SNP majority victory. They did not have a majority of voters on their side and they did not have a majority of those eligible to vote on their side.

2. That will be so much better than the past and status quo in which as part of the UK, Scotland has been and is governed by governments chosen by members of the corrupt wealthy Oxbridge mafia rather than the people of Scotland.

Yeah, we'll be governed by corrupt wealthy people from Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow University mafias instead. And our best and brightest totally won't still go to Oxbridge and other internationally renowned Universities for elites and come back and become politicians here.

3. A small nation of around 5million people within a reasonably short and easy travel distance of its parliament will have much more control over its government, unlike the UK with population of around 68million who are and always have been divided and ruled for the benefit of the wealthy corrupt.

We will still be divided and ruled for the benefit of the wealthy corrupt. Just a different set of them. Will it be less bad? Yes. That's why I'm voting Yes. But stop pretending it will be a panacea.

4. I could go on but i will not as i don't want to bore everyone with too many facts.

What you've presented here aren't "facts". They're opinion and argument. They're different.

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I couldn't care less what "many unionists feel". They will still be "British", if that matters to them, after Scotland gains political independence. If they will not listen to reason and understand that, then tough. Let them beel.

Uncompromising British Nationalism is a tiny minority, underclass sport. Their emotional and intellectual immaturity is not an excuse for Scotland to continue to be governed by a corrupt and wholly inappropriate Westminster establishment.

After Independence, if unionists are unhappy. they can easily f**k off to England or Wales or Northern Ireland if they want to remain part of DeeGas's "British people family" rather than be a part of the people of Scotland. It is that simple.

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Why is Ad Lib still pretending to be a yes voter? It's an embarrassing display.

He's shamefully not toeing the party seal-clapping line by bringing facts and tsk law into the thread.

Should really just trust in the SNP and Wings over Scotland - they know best about these things.

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1. An Independent Scotland will be governed by the people that the majority of the people of Scotland decide they want to govern Scotland.

No it won't.

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Except of course they wouldn't be invading a sovereign state. They would be declining to permit the UK military base to form part of the agreed sovereign territory of an as of yet non-existent sovereign state of Scotland.

'some of our land and a bit of our sea'

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They will blatantly not be part of a British Union and that is what British Unionists are talking about.

They respect and understand the Scottish Saltire country thing because they are part of that too.

On the other hand the Scottish nationalists refuse to respect or get the Union thing.

This dangerous Scottish nationalism,the border building Scottish nationalism scream separatism at a time when our island should blatantly remain United.

For the good of Scotland and the rest of our islands we should work towards working Together in this unsettled world that surrounds us.

300 years of United Kingdom and some Scottish nationalist trouble makers want to break it up,as if it 300 years didn't happen.

It's disgusting.

Better Together.

Ho, DeeGas

burning-union-flag-007.jpg

Stick 300 years of the Union up your fucking arse :thumsup2:thumsup2 :thumsup2

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He's shamefully not toeing the party seal-clapping line by bringing facts and tsk law into the thread.

"Facts" furnished by that oracle of disinterested neutrality, the UK Ministry of Defence?

Aye OK then.

tumblr_ly9z7j9Q4d1r6ubozo1_400.jpg

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Then you exaggerate the wealth of England compared to Scotland too.

Just because the majority of your meetings with English are from the middle class,it does not mean the majority of English are just that.

By the way,Scotland is still blatantly "split".

Shame for Salmond and Co and the section of sanctimonious grinning right wing that follow him.

I really don't though. I live in Cambridge, but I work in Tower Hamlets. In fact, the boroughs of Newham and Tower Hamlets are amongst the poorest in the UK, never mind London. And of course Scotland is split - it's part of the UK - the same UK where the poorest pay a higher percentage of their income than the ultra wealthy. A UK where a public school education virtually buys you a job. I can't believe I'm saying this, but xbl is right about one thing - Scotland and England are very different. UKIP will never get traction there. The Tories are all but an extinct breed. If you want any chance of your vote counting for anything, you have to vote yes up there. I'm not happy about it, but there you go.

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"We will work every day between now and the vote to ensure that we stay United with our friends, families and workmates."

The more I looked at that quote I have to ask what the fek does that even mean?

I have family in Rep of Ireland. The company I work for has business dealings with people in the Rep of Ireland and elsewhere in Europe.

I don't look upon either my family or work colleagues in Ireland as being separate or disunited from me.

But if we gain independence somehow I will feel differently to family and work colleagues in England? Is that what they are saying???

It is a tacit admission from the Unionists that they are hardcore, militant nationalists, if their views or actions towards someone would change based on the passport they carry. I'm surprised, legitimately, that this isn't touched on more on the media. Can you think of anything more disgusting in the 21st century than basing your relationship with someone off their nationality? Maybe basing it off their ethnicity but really the two aren't that distinct.

No voters need to reconcile themselves to the fact that their official campaign sees them as a nationality and not as a person. If they're OK with that, their worth being based off a line on a form, then by all means they should continue in the No camp. Those with a bit of self-respect and empathy, meanwhile, would do well to switch.

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