Pink Freud Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Far less Glasgow? Surely far less Newcastle or Liverpool? Yeah fair enough - so far as Westminster is concerned, it's probably much of a muchness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Freud Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Not by any definition at all. Nope. Indeed it isn't. Not that you need any support on this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 It's not really about my identity though DeeGas. It's about watching what was once a great example of internationalism being reduced to the rest of the country turning into a cheap labour source for London, and the views of someone living in Surrey counting much, much more than those of someone living in Newcastle or Liverpool, far less Glasgow. The big difference is, Scotland has a chance to do something remarkable. This is very much a "from the head" rather than a "from the heart" school of nationalism for Scotland. Such as? I see absolutely nothing "remarkable" on the table from anyone involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Freud Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Such as? I see absolutely nothing "remarkable" on the table from anyone involved. Sure, the first parliament will be more of the same in all likelihood - but the potential is there unlike in Westminster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roverthemoon Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Has Riddoch pulled out of QT? Surely that's two nationalists on the panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Sure, the first parliament will be more of the same in all likelihood - but the potential is there unlike in Westminster. You surely aren't that wet behind the ears? You surely know how this is going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Indeed it isn't. Not that you need any support on this one... What, you don't think describing the people of two entire countries as being "dirt poor" and "bringing no skills to the table" when asked why he opposed lifting EU restrictions qualifies as xenophobia? If I was to say that all the English did was come up here, buy holiday homes and then lord it over us without contributing anything worthwhile, I'd be rightly pulled up on it by this forum. Why not in the case of Romanians and Bulgarians? Or are they "fair game"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Indeed it isn't. Not that you need any support on this one... It's the hysterical use of the word "racist" by idiotic fools like him that completely dilute any impact the word may have once had. He is normally bottom feeding in this thread, but this time he is in the bathescape plumbing the depths of the Mariana Trench. Which to be fair, is the only trench he has got remotely close to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 It's the hysterical use of the word "racist" by idiotic fools like him that completely dilute any impact the word may have once had. He is normally bottom feeding in this thread, but this time he is in the bathescape plumbing the depths of the Mariana Trench. Which to be fair, is the only trench he has got remotely close to. So what is it? Inherent prejudice? Just a joke? Fair game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Freud Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 What, you don't think describing the people of two entire countries as being "dirt poor" and "bringing no skills to the table" when asked why he opposed lifting EU restrictions qualifies as xenophobia? If I was to say that all the English did was come up here, buy holiday homes and then lord it over us without contributing anything worthwhile, I'd be rightly pulled up on it by this forum. Why not in the case of Romanians and Bulgarians? Or are they "fair game"? If you choose to interpret it that way. Bulgarian and Romanian immigrants to this country can and should have the same rights as any other EU citizen - it's one of the few things I agree with EU policy on, so I disagree with Reynard on the principle. To call him xenophobic on the back of that rather throw away statement is not fair though. Factually, Romanian and Bulgarian migration could well put a further strain on an overstretched welfare system. It's simply ignoring the obvious to deny it. Where he and I would differ is that I would look at the welfare system and the ridiculous hoops that Bulgarians and Romanians had to jump through to get employed here up until recently. I know of what I speak, having had to write letters to the Home office to avoid us losing an excellent nurse from Sofia as a direct result on non joined up thinking between the HMRC and the Home Office. However, there is a massive amount of poverty in those two countries, and it is sensible to at least think about that - for the sake of the migrants themselves if nothing else, particularly down here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomDom Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Can someone link me to the post? If Reynard has come out and basically said that Bulgarian and Romanian people have no skills, then I'd probably agree that it's xenophobic, and I know that at least in the Bulgarian case, pretty wrong. I'd just like to know if that is actually what he said of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeGas Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 It's not really about my identity though DeeGas. It's about watching what was once a great example of internationalism being reduced to the rest of the country turning into a cheap labour source for London, and the views of someone living in Surrey counting much, much more than those of someone living in Newcastle or Liverpool, far less Glasgow. The big difference is, Scotland has a chance to do something remarkable. This is very much a "from the head" rather than a "from the heart" school of nationalism for Scotland. Many parts of England are not eg Surrey Pink Freud. Scotland does have a chance to create something "remarkable",i get this,although i'm far from convinced on the odds of success. The border will still be something ugly though. As a Scotsman in England,i assume like me you do not get to vote. So,what is apparently stopping the majority (so it seems) of Scots from voicing support for Independent Scotland? Why are they not sold on the opportunity Scotland has?There is an opportunity,that is for sure,a chance to create the fairest social system/society in the world. So what's stopping em from being their own masters as it were? I believe for some it is because their lives appear okay,they are relatively happy and they want to remain with the Welsh,English and N Irish people.British. They feel something for each other. There are other reasons i'm sure,(the dreaded "scaremongering" perhaps),but for many this 'Britishness' is really something they feel very strongy and for some it is what this referendum is all about.They want to remain British and against the odds maybe,improve British Scotland. I mean it looks this way to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Can someone link me to the post? If Reynard has come out and basically said that Bulgarian and Romanian people have no skills, then I'd probably agree that it's xenophobic, and I know that at least in the Bulgarian case, pretty wrong. I'd just like to know if that is actually what he said of course. Old independence thread I believe, now mysteriously "deleted". I could be wrong there though. I believe he used the traditional term "these people". To call him xenophobic on the back of that rather throw away statement is not fair though. Aha. So you disagree with him, but apparently its okay to dismiss his prejudiced comments as "throwaway". Thats fine. I'll bear that in mind for future reference. I know several Romanians and Bulgarians. One of whom speaks five languages and currently works in Catalonia, but who couldn't get a job here right now. And I also know a Bulgarian who uses her middle name for job applications, because she found that when she sent a CV with her Bulgarian surname, nothing, but when she sent a CV with her more Italian sounding middle name used instead, lo and behold, interview offers. "These people" are very diverse, from very poor people with no skills to extremely talented multilingual workers. All the evidence also shows that "these people" are not planning to come to the country in particularly great numbers anyway, for a variety of reasons. Quite frankly, if it had been an anti English comment about "the English all...", then you would have been the first to object, throwaway or not. Edited to add, I appreciate that we are in agreement here, its just that I find your defence baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Cant beat a bit casual racism,even better when its applauded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Greens have sent an official complaint: http://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/news/show/6836/scottish-greens-lodge-official-complaint-with-bbc-question-time Discussion on Independence, featuring 4 Unionists. If I was in the SNP, I'd just refuse to appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Cant beat a bit casual racism,even better when its applauded How on earth is that racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 How on earth is that racist? Likewise, can you imagine if that was a Scottish person saying something similar about England. I know your posting style, you would be the VERY FIRST to complain. Lets not forget, telling Farage he wasn't welcome here because of his policies was widely described as anti-English. I'm seeing a theme here. Anti-Englishness - Bad. Anti-Anythingelse - Throwaway comments, not to be taken seriously, just a joke, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeGas Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Hey come on,we all know full well the Brits cuss each other left right and centre. For 99.9% of people is not meant to be offensive or hurtful. It is in many ways a British tradition. Please,let's remain grown up and leave the 'looney' pc stuff in the 80s dustbin where it belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Likewise, can you imagine if that was a Scottish person saying something similar about England. I know your posting style, you would be the VERY FIRST to complain. Lets not forget, telling Farage he wasn't welcome here because of his policies was widely described as anti-English. I'm seeing a theme here. Anti-Englishness - Bad. Anti-Anythingelse - Throwaway comments, not to be taken seriously, just a joke, etc. It's not racist. Not particularly funny, but certainly not racist. Just as telling Farage to go away wasn't racist. Would I be first to complain before or after the other posters you've accused of the same? You keep doing this; putting words into people's mouths. You've made it perfectly clear you know absolutely nothing about me, or frankly Reynard or Pink Freud, and you've accused three of us of exactly the same thing. By the way, to the best of my knowledge, I've never once complained about anything on P&B, just to correct your slander. But well done on taking a valid topic of discussion and making it personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 It's not racist. Not particularly funny, but certainly not racist. Just as telling Farage to go away wasn't racist. Would I be first to complain before or after the other posters you've accused of the same? You keep doing this; putting words into people's mouths. You've made it perfectly clear you know absolutely nothing about me, or frankly Reynard or Pink Freud, and you've accused three of us of exactly the same thing. I accused Reynard of xenophobia and racism. I accused Pink Freud of turning a blind eye to a poster because of the identity of said poster. I accuse you of being an "oh I'm above it all" ultra-liberal who has a history of applying uber political correctness. To most things. Different accusations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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