Mr Rational Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Unlike others, I will call it as I see it. If you do put stock into the polls, that is the only crumb of comfort for yes, there's no getting around it. But I know approx zero people in the yes campaign that are paying attention to the polls just now, there is simply no point. It's all good fun on here, but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Unlike others, I will call it as I see it. If you do put stock into the polls, that is the only crumb of comfort for yes, there's no getting around it. But I know approx zero people in the yes campaign that are paying attention to the polls just now, there is simply no point. It's all good fun on here, but that's about it. Me too. You're going to lose and heavily. The yes clowns are wise to try and blind eye the polls. Its basically telling them they are wasting their fucking time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Held tomorrow you are correct, we would get our arses handed to us on a plate. Yes has done some things well up to now, other things not so well. Luckily no has pretty much been the same, our advantage is that we have the boots on the ground, disadvantage is that it's viewed as an 'SNP' campaign and the media is taking a toll. It's not an excuse Reynard, it is just how it is. No is viewed as a bunch of tricksters on the doorsteps. They don't really have to do much to maintain their lead, just keep the negative stories coming and wear yes down through attrition. The electorate? I reckon they are disinterested, bored and fed up with the whole thing. I would actually lock the thread till after the white paper later this year, it's only going to get interesting when it hits June next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeGas Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 It is up to the SNP led campaign to come up with stuff that makes their independence idea better than what the Scottish have now. They have so far failed to achieve this. If the electorate are "disinterested,bored and fed up" ,if the electorate don't trust the SNP led campaign for independence then there's the SNP challenge. I imagine Salmond would like as much debate 'locked' and hushed, until he can have a quick 'scrap' near Sept 2014 and attempt to relaunch the "Brave Heart" battle cry and ignite the necessary patriotism for a quick dash to the line. Keep the thread open,keep the debates in the media alive. Salmond and Co had the date they wanted,they got the teeangaers right to vote,they have the CW Games,the Ryder Cup and 700 years anniversary since giving the English a bloody nose,so,let's see their stamina. Mr Funny Eyebrows most certainly has good 'bottom',Salmond and Co are showing signs of breathing a wee bit hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 The only really valid data point that seems to exist across all the polls is the utter lack of movement either way. If Yes were as desperate and beaten by the unnasailable arguments of BT, I'd expect the undecided vote to be falling away and adding to the No vote, I don't really see how you come to that conclusion. It's not like the commited secessionists are going to suddenly say "f**k it, the game's up - I'm going to vote No so I'm on the winning side". I don't see any way that the Yes vote can ever decline from its present position. There are enough believers to hold it steady around the third. The problem is that they haven't made any real progress amongst the non-believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 But I know approx zero people in the yes campaign that are paying attention to the polls just now, there is simply no point. It's all good fun on here, but that's about it. I bet if the poll data wasn't so enormously discouraging that they'd be paying a lot more attention to it. What you describe is really the equivalent of refusing doggedly to look at the news of how the war is going, when fighting a skirmish with the enemy in your local trench. I met a few of the Yes Scotland campaigners in Falkirk High street a couple of weekends ago. They really are relentlessly positive and smiley. Reminded me of the Jehovah's witnesses. With blue t shirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 The electorate? I reckon they are disinterested, bored and fed up with the whole thing. I would actually lock the thread till after the white paper later this year, it's only going to get interesting when it hits June next year. I agree to be honest. Nothing new has come out on this thread for ages now, and it's unlikely to change. The SNP's white paper will be greeted with a giant "meh", it will be discussed for a week, then forgotten about. The debate is stagnant and the result is known. It's actually been a really boring campaign til now. We need a Watergate style break in or something to make it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Most folk want hard solid information. That's all. We will be able to give examples of what may happen just now, that's it. I've just been speaking to a small business owner about this, she wants hard facts, not propaganda from both sides. She did day however that Cameron is acting like a spoiled brat in that he wants to negotiate with the EU before putting it to a referendum, but won't do the same for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I have a bit of sympathy for Cameron there. He doesn't want to leave the EU, but he's leader of a party with a significant chunk who do. He's not trying to negotiate the terms of the exit. He's trying to come back with a Neville Chamberlain piece of paper promising peace in our time, to get the Eurosceptics of his back. It's the equivalent really of a Union rep going in to a pay battle asking for 10% and free blow jobs for life for their staff, then trying to sell 2.1 % and cheaper soup in the canteen as a real success. I don't fancy his chances to be honest. He'll get some minor concessions, and it won't help. I hope not anyway, as I think it's long overdue that the public get a say via a referendum on the European Union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I bet if the poll data wasn't so enormously discouraging that they'd be paying a lot more attention to it. What you describe is really the equivalent of refusing doggedly to look at the news of how the war is going, when fighting a skirmish with the enemy in your local trench. I met a few of the Yes Scotland campaigners in Falkirk High street a couple of weekends ago. They really are relentlessly positive and smiley. Reminded me of the Jehovah's witnesses. With blue t shirts. It's been strategy to build the campaign and ignore the polls no matter what. If we were closer or in the lead, I'm pretty sure we would be complacent so I'm quite happy to be behind at this stage it breeds hunger IMO. No are too busy slapping each other on the back and flinging mud to realise this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I don't really see how you come to that conclusion. It's not like the commited secessionists are going to suddenly say "f**k it, the game's up - I'm going to vote No so I'm on the winning side". I don't see any way that the Yes vote can ever decline from its present position. There are enough believers to hold it steady around the third. The problem is that they haven't made any real progress amongst the non-believers. Is there a third of the population genuinely hardcore indy supporters? That would be a long term worry for Westminster. No, my point is that the proportion of undecideds hasn't really moved, nor has there been any bleed away from Yes (or No), which, logically if BT (or Yes) were cutting through the noise with fantastic, irrefutable arguments to the wonderous nature of the Union, you'd expec tthere to be. Whether or not you think the yes vote cna never drop below a third of the populace, it still doesn't detract from the point that there is little momentum from either side of the campaign and my theory is that this is becuase of general disengagement form the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Get real. Ho ho ho. The reality is that Yes has already lost. Everyone knows that. It's about managing their defeat and how the SNP can come out of a lost referendum with a modicum of strength. I genuinely thought no one really believed Yes could win (though they might posture in public to save face) but alarmingly I actually think you might believe that Yes can indeed win? The "reality" ? "Everyone knows"? The reality is the vote is 15 months away, for ANY side to claim victory now would be ludicrous. And who is this "everyone knows" group of people you refer to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Nobody has won or lost yet to suggest otherwise is daft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeGas Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 The "reality" ? "Everyone knows"? The reality is the vote is 15 months away, for ANY side to claim victory now would be ludicrous. And who is this "everyone knows" group of people you refer to? The Beatles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Bojangles Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Am I the only one who's having both sky boxes report a technical fault which started as soon as STV's "Road to Referendum" was about to come on? Every single other channel is working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Circle Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Am I the only one who's having both sky boxes report a technical fault which started as soon as STV's "Road to Referendum" was about to come on? Every single other channel is working. Yep same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeGas Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Am I the only one who's having both sky boxes report a technical fault which started as soon as STV's "Road to Referendum" was about to come on? Every single other channel is working. I had a problem getting Emmerdale for a while. Got to watch the Yorkshire Republican Movement though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Bojangles Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Well, I just found that you can watch it online here: http://news.stv.tv/scotland/226202-stv-to-broadcast-road-to-referendum-series-with-iain-macwhirter/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Am I the only one who's having both sky boxes report a technical fault which started as soon as STV's "Road to Referendum" was about to come on? Every single other channel is working. Bung it onto Springwatch. You might actually learn something remotely interesting on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Bojangles Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I've learned that Margo was a bit of a looker in her day. Never would have guessed. EDIT: No explanation. No apology. Shouldn't have expected anything, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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