Independence - how would you vote?

[xbl]

Wasn't an eye opener for me, but affirmed the bleeding obvious.

I've no problems with 16 year olds, even 12 year olds voting but there need to be some sort of test that proves you're on nodding terms with basic politics, prior to being allowed to vote.

Should the same apply to over 16s?

[Perfect Circle]

Should the same apply to over 16s?

yup.

[Perfect Circle]

Going by the number of Rangers/ save the union pages on Facebook, quite a few.

Or Celtic fan talking abut Eire or Palestine.

I think Lex might edit his post

[Tryfield]

Virtually everyone I know will be voting no regardless of the football team they support.

Amazingly enough, the bulk of people in Scotland don't go to football. And even mre amazingly, the majority of people will be voting No.

I now know 4 folk who would vote YES.

3 of them live abroad(with no vote) and the other one sleeps in for the Jeremy Kyle Show.

[10 CC ICT]

Virtually everyone I know will be voting no regardless of the football team they support.

Amazingly enough, the bulk of people in Scotland don't go to football. And even mre amazingly, the majority of people will be voting No.

You've been casing funerals with a certain poster here, haven't you?

Been avoiding this thread because it's the same pish from the same posters all the time.

[Swampy]

In my own experience the most Unionist clubs (in a Scottish context) are, in descending order:

1. Hearts

2. Celtic

3. Rangers

4. St. Mirren

5. Airdrie

Everyone below that is much of a muchness, really.

[Baxter Parp]

I now know 4 folk who would vote YES.

3 of them live abroad(with no vote) and the other one sleeps in for the Jeremy Kyle Show.

I had no idea you'd changed your mind. Mind and tell us what happens on Kyle the morrin.

[Lambie's Pigeon Feed]

Under 16s will all vote for independence and Salmond only allowed it to boost his campaign. This is the kind of fucking stupidity and bullshit you get with the No campaign.

[DeeGas]

Under 16s will all vote for independence and Salmond only allowed it to boost his campaign. This is the kind of fucking stupidity and bullshit you get with the No campaign.

Hmm,to me it has the feel of bitter Nationalist disappointment.

[Reynard]

Under 16s will all vote for independence and Salmond only allowed it to boost his campaign. This is the kind of fucking stupidity and bullshit you get with the No campaign.

Just think though, if they ever got their shit together the separatist morons would be down to single digit support. Be thankful that you are intellectual giants in comparison to the majority fo your fellow countrymen.

[Colkitto]

When Unionists thought giving votes to 16 & 17 year old's was a tactic by Salmond to help win the referendum they went into panic mode and cried foul and accused the SNP of trying to rig the vote. Even although it was a long standing policy of the SNP and backed by organisations including Scotland's biggest teaching union, the EIS, as well as the Scottish TUC, National Union of Students and the Electoral Reform Society.

The latest poll has sent the Unionists into a frenzy and you could almost imagine the Labour placemen at BBC Scotland doing high fives and having group reach-rounds.

They even wheeled out arch - Unionist Professor Curtice to make the most of this gift poll. The Sunday Politics programme just couldn't hide their glee in the over the top reporting of the poll and almost dedicated the entire programme to it.

Strangely though, they didn't include Professor Curtice's previous comments regarding giving the votes to 16 & 17 year olds.

He said -:

"There are currently four million people registered to vote, so Scotland’s youngest voters should constitute a little over 2.5 per cent, or one in 40, of all those eligible to vote on referendum day.

Those numbers alone suggest that the chances that 16- and 17-year-olds will swing the referendum for the SNP must be rather low."

I'm surprised (no I'm not really) that Curtice didn't repeat his comments and subsitute the "SNP" to the "No campaign"

In other words, this poll changes nothing! It won't make a difference to the outcome of the referendum result for either side.

[Pink Freud]

In my own experience the most Unionist clubs (in a Scottish context) are, in descending order:

1. Hearts

2. Celtic

3. Rangers

4. St. Mirren

5. Airdrie

Everyone below that is much of a muchness, really.

So three loyalist clubs, one Labour/left club and St Mirren. Certainly on here it seems that way, but I know quite a few Yes Buddies. Over the piece though, you're probably right, and I'm not sure why that is...

[DeeGas]

I'm surprised to see Celtic in any top 5 Unionist voting table.

[xbl]

So three loyalist clubs, one Labour/left club and St Mirren. Certainly on here it seems that way, but I know quite a few Yes Buddies. Over the piece though, you're probably right, and I'm not sure why that is...

In real life, I would rank it pretty much like Swampy. Purely online though, I'd put St. Mirren first. Remember that racist die hard Unionist lawyer that the BBC completely ignored reporting on? Do you remember his football team? I feel quite justified in pointing out the relationship between St. Mirren and hardcore Unionism.

[deadasdillinger]

Tom Gordon's excellent article on a new report which claims London is bleeding Scotland dry.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/ ... s.21228380

Some of the most telling paragraphs for me:

"Instead of actively protecting Scotland, she says the UK economy has become overwhelmingly geared to helping London, meaning Scotland and other UK regions suffer from being denied the specific, local policies they need."


"Among the key points of Cuthbert's report are that Scottish gross domestic product (GDP) has underperformed relative to the UK and similar EU countries for the past 50 years.
Since 1963, UK GDP has on average grown by 2.5% a year, but by 2% in Scotland: if Scotland's growth had kept pace with the UK, its economy would be 25% larger today."


"While some might think of industrial decline as a given in advanced economies, she says the data shows the UK has been "almost alone" in experiencing a sharp decline, adding: "Skill levels and higher education in Scotland do offer a labour resource and potential which is world class, but much of this potential has permanently moved south or emigrated: the long-term benefit to the Scottish economy has therefore been weakened.""


And some of the report's key points:

Distribution of GDP: the UK has the most uneven economic performance of any European nation. Italy is usually held to be an example of "asymmetrical economic performance" with a booming north and a poverty-stricken south. But the variation in GDP between the worst and best areas in Italy is only a factor of two, while in the UK it is a factor of 4.7.

Industry: of all the advanced European economies, only the UK has seen industrial production decline over the last 30 years. Others have seen significant rises in productive economic activity. Industrial production is much more important to Scotland than to London, which relies on the City.

Employment: Scotland has far more part-time and low-skill employment than London, suggesting a structural problem with the labour market.

Export performance: there has been a weakening of UK export performance, balance of payments, and a reliance on borrowing. These disproportionately affect everywhere outside London.

Research & development: not only is UK R&D very low, it is concentrated in London, with Scotland's performance the lowest in Europe.

Housing: housing debt is so much larger than elsewhere that monetary policy is geared to maintaining affordable housing in London at the expense of economic growth elsewhere.



And in another independence article in yesterday's Sunday Herald, I found myself agreeing with Iain McWhirter when he said:

The worst that could happen in 2014 is an inconclusive and bad-tempered referendum campaign after which a No vote is taken by Westminster as a sign that the Scottish question is no longer important. This is what happened after the 1979 referendum, which failed to meet the 40% rule. UK governments then allowed Scotland's manufacturing economy to be dismantled, while the UK balance of payments deficit was being financed by Scottish oil revenue.

[deky]

I'm surprised to see Celtic in any top 5 Unionist voting table.

That's because you're an idiot and have no idea about Scottish football or wider society. Carry on though.

[Heidthebaw]

When Unionists thought giving votes to 16 & 17 year old's was a tactic by Salmond to help win the referendum they went into panic mode and cried foul and accused the SNP of trying to rig the vote. Even although it was a long standing policy of the SNP and backed by organisations including Scotland's biggest teaching union, the EIS, as well as the Scottish TUC, National Union of Students and the Electoral Reform Society.

The latest poll has sent the Unionists into a frenzy and you could almost imagine the Labour placemen at BBC Scotland doing high fives and having group reach-rounds.

They even wheeled out arch - Unionist Professor Curtice to make the most of this gift poll. The Sunday Politics programme just couldn't hide their glee in the over the top reporting of the poll and almost dedicated the entire programme to it.

Strangely though, they didn't include Professor Curtice's previous comments regarding giving the votes to 16 & 17 year olds.

He said -:

"There are currently four million people registered to vote, so Scotland’s youngest voters should constitute a little over 2.5 per cent, or one in 40, of all those eligible to vote on referendum day.

Those numbers alone suggest that the chances that 16- and 17-year-olds will swing the referendum for the SNP must be rather low."

I'm surprised (no I'm not really) that Curtice didn't repeat his comments and subsitute the "SNP" to the "No campaign"

In other words, this poll changes nothing! It won't make a difference to the outcome of the referendum result for either side.

Excellent point and well missed by the MSM (no surprise) unionists..grasping...straws ..at

[Mr.Bojangles]

Yeah, I remember the Curtice interview. I'm still not sure how there has been such a shift in youth voting intention about independence. The youngest are usually the least risk adverse and when I was young an age graph of voting intention would have been on a marked downward trajectory as you get to the older ages. Maybe it's because the SNP are in power, making them 'uncool'?

Can we talk about the Curran interview again? I still can't get over how monumentally stupid her points were.

[xbl]

I think the headline: "Majority of U18s Undecided - Numbers not considered to be significant" doesn't quite have the same ring, does it?

[Heidthebaw]

I think the headline: "Majority of U18s Undecided - Numbers not considered to be significant" doesn't quite have the same ring, does it?

"Under 18's need more factual information that the MSM fails to give them" would be more accurate but " Alien Sex scandal in cabinet" would be better.