NFL General Discussion

[Bully Wee Villa]

Not long now until the first game of Da Bears' 19 and 0 season. We will look back on this day.

[lichtie23]

Not long now until the first game of Da Bears' 19 and 0 season. We will look back on this day.

You called it!

[Antiochas III]

 

[Brummie Clyde]

Did wonder how the poor Eagles OLine (one of the worst in the NFL for me) would get on Vs a good DLine.

Fair play to Haskins. I've been very critical of him, but he played with poise today.

[strichener]

On 07/09/2020 at 11:49, Boo Khaki said:

 

I think Rivers will be absolutely fine if the Colts OL plays to an average to above average level. 

I've watched practically every game Rivers has played in the NFL and last season was the first time I'd seen any obvious decline in his ability at all. In the very first game of the season he was late releasing a throw into the EZ which was picked despite the TE being wide open. It immediately sent my spidey senses tingling because it was the most unRivers-like mistake I'd seen him make. You can say what you like about his flaws, but recognising a play and getting the ball out on time has never been one of them. There was a perceptible decline in his cognitive quickness last season, notably on a few occasions where Allen had left his man for dead, gotten behind the D, and Rivers basically waited until the trailing man had caught up before getting the ball to KA. Despite it being noticeable, it wasn't a problem to the extent that it was costing the team wins, he just isn't quite as sharp in that respect as he has been before now.

A lot was made if his turnover numbers last season, and yes, in the last 6 games or so he was literally chucking it up for grabs half the time. If you'd seen the state of our pass protection it becomes a lot more obvious why. Rivers has always been the kind of QB who, when the rest of the team isn't up to it, tries to do far too much on his own rather than reining it in and taking what's on offer. There were times last year where he was being beaten to the bottom of his drop by the pass rush and left no pocket to step up into, so, given that we were trailing so frequently his only real option was to just lob it long and hope someone in a Chargers uni came down with it. The few occasions the OL actually managed to keep him clean he was still capable of performing at a well above average level. See the GB game. Typical vintage Rivers schooling a D, outplaying a much more vaunted opposition QB. He lives or dies by the state of his OL though and it's been that way throughout his career. He's a pocket statue to an extent, but he's also one of the very best as sensing pressure, stepping up, and getting the ball out despite having persistently useless protection. I can't say I noticed any real decline in that department last season, the OL was just so egregiously bad that there was never any opportunity for him to step up away from the rush in the first place.

If the Colts keep him upright he's still good enough to buy them 3-4 wins on his own just like he has for SD/LAC down the years. There was seasons where we'd have honestly been a 1-15/0-16 team were it not for PR. I wouldn't pay any attention to people claiming his arm strength is gone. People have been saying that since at least 2014, and I can only assume they've never really watched PR play because he's never had an arm at any point in his career. He usually underthrows any route more that 40 yards, but he's been doing that consistently since 2006 and it's one of the reasons we never bothered going and getting a true speedster WR. He is and always has been a touch and placement passer, and I can't say I noticed any decline in that part of his play last season either. His speed of thought and reading the routes has declined, but everything else is still the same old unathletic and lumbering PR.

Well that went well.  Rivers - Played 1, Lost 1 and almost single handedly.  2 picks on the day (would have been three bar an unrelated penalty) and wobblers all over the shop.  You know it's bad when you are screaming at the TV to bring back Curtis Painter! (slight exageration but you get the drift).  Rivers is playing behind arguably the best line in the NFL at the moment and still feels the need to send a telegraph before his passes.  We are fucked with him at QB.

[Bully Wee Villa]

I've been asked to book next year's holiday, and I usually book the day after the playoffs off.

Does anyone know, with the new Willdcard format, will they play three games on the Saturday and three on Sunday, or will there be a Monday night playoff? Trying to work out if I can get away with just booking the Monday or if I need to book the Tuesday off, too.

[Bully Wee Villa]

Never mind, found it. Seems like I should only have to book the Monday off. 

https://fbschedules.com/nfl-playoff-schedule/

[AmericanFan]

2 hours ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

I've been asked to book next year's holiday, and I usually book the day after the playoffs off.

Does anyone know, with the new Willdcard format, will they play three games on the Saturday and three on Sunday, or will there be a Monday night playoff? Trying to work out if I can get away with just booking the Monday or if I need to book the Tuesday off, too.

Yeah, it will be 3 on Saturday and 3 on Sunday. Having a Monday game would be too much of a disadvantage for the winner going into the next round.

On another note, that first playoff weekend is going to be wild.

[AmericanFan]

14 hours ago, strichener said:

Well that went well.  Rivers - Played 1, Lost 1 and almost single handedly.  2 picks on the day (would have been three bar an unrelated penalty) and wobblers all over the shop.  You know it's bad when you are screaming at the TV to bring back Curtis Painter! (slight exageration but you get the drift).  Rivers is playing behind arguably the best line in the NFL at the moment and still feels the need to send a telegraph before his passes.  We are fucked with him at QB.

Throwing for tons of meaningless yards and some back-breaking interceptions = classic Rivers.

[Mr. Brightside]

Old Man Rivers also looked to be suffering a bit of the old noodle arm in the back half of last season, not sure how he was yesterday. Brees starting to look the same as well.

[GNU_Linux]

Old Man Rivers also looked to be suffering a bit of the old noodle arm in the back half of last season, not sure how he was yesterday. Brees starting to look the same as well.

Will be interesting who the Saints go to as their starter down the line. It's either Hill or Winston currently. Draft option seems unlikely as I can't see the Saints finishing low enough to get best pickings on QB's.

[lichtie23]

[Mr. Brightside]

Will be interesting who the Saints go to as their starter down the line. It's either Hill or Winston currently. Draft option seems unlikely as I can't see the Saints finishing low enough to get best pickings on QB's.

With their offensive weapons, it's got to be Winston, he loves slinging it.

[AmericanFan]

1 hour ago, Mr. Brightside said:

Old Man Rivers also looked to be suffering a bit of the old noodle arm in the back half of last season, not sure how he was yesterday. Brees starting to look the same as well.

Brady's been that way for 2 years. IMO it's why the Patriots let him walk and why I don't think the Bucs will be all that this year. He doesn't have the cannon anymore to take advantage of Tampa's deep threats.

[AmericanFan]

41 minutes ago, Mr. Brightside said:

With their offensive weapons, it's got to be Winston, he loves slinging it.

He's only on a one-year contract. I can't see them re-signing him to be a long-term option, but stranger things have happened. It's not like there's a lot of people on this planet who can even be an average NFL quarterback.

[AmericanFan]

51 minutes ago, lichtie23 said:

haha

[CountyFan]

This year is clearly the year of the Seahawk and I couldn't be more angry about that. Fucking p***ks. 

[Boo Khaki]

19 hours ago, strichener said:

Well that went well.  Rivers - Played 1, Lost 1 and almost single handedly.  2 picks on the day (would have been three bar an unrelated penalty) and wobblers all over the shop.  You know it's bad when you are screaming at the TV to bring back Curtis Painter! (slight exageration but you get the drift).  Rivers is playing behind arguably the best line in the NFL at the moment and still feels the need to send a telegraph before his passes.  We are fucked with him at QB.

Single-handedly? 

Entire Colts D was complete and utter shite from start to finish yesterday. Your QB put up 346 yards on the road at a divisional opponent and you still lost because they couldn't get Minshew off the field thanks to abysmal coverage and inept tackling. It was like watching the Chargers of the past 5 years. I would have thought it was pretty obvious to Reich and Co that running it 20 times and having Rivers throw it 46 isn't viable, since that's exactly how the Chargers have been using him the past few years with pretty much exactly the same result. I'm not sure where you're seeing these 'wobblers all over the shop' either. I watched the entire game and only saw him throw one wobbly pass. There's no velocity on his passes but as I've already said, that's been a consistent throughout his entire tenure as an NFL starter, it's not a new thing. Swap starting QB's yesterday and you'd have still lost only by a far wider margin. Rivers was still making plenty of plays with is arm, but if you're going to have him throw it 46 times per game then the picks are inevitable. 

4 hours ago, AmericanFan said:

Throwing for tons of meaningless yards and some back-breaking interceptions = classic Rivers.

How are the yards 'meaningless' when it's a one-score game and the Colts made no serious attempt to get a running game going? What else is the QB supposed to do? 

[strichener]

2 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

Single-handedly? 

Entire Colts D was complete and utter shite from start to finish yesterday. Your QB put up 346 yards on the road at a divisional opponent and you still lost because they couldn't get Minshew off the field thanks to abysmal coverage and inept tackling. It was like watching the Chargers of the past 5 years. I would have thought it was pretty obvious to Reich and Co that running it 20 times and having Rivers throw it 46 isn't viable, since that's exactly how the Chargers have been using him the past few years with pretty much exactly the same result. I'm not sure where you're seeing these 'wobblers all over the shop' either. I watched the entire game and only saw him throw one wobbly pass. There's no velocity on his passes but as I've already said, that's been a consistent throughout his entire tenure as an NFL starter, it's not a new thing. Swap starting QB's yesterday and you'd have still lost only by a far wider margin. Rivers was still making plenty of plays with is arm, but if you're going to have him throw it 46 times per game then the picks are inevitable. 

How are the yards 'meaningless' when it's a one-score game and the Colts made no serious attempt to get a running game going? What else is the QB supposed to do? 

I swear you must be his agent.

Yes single-handedly, his passes were telegraphed, throwing into double coverage and his only deep pass (about 20 yards) was over-thrown.  His two interceptions were 100% on him and cost us the game.  As for our defence, the Jags started inside their 10 twice in the game, the rest of the time we gave them decent field position. As for your time of possession nonsense, the Colts had the ball for 33:23 vs 26:37 for the Jags.

Our 3rd down efficiency was crap, our 4th down was just as bad, we sacked Minshew four times and allowed 0 sacks on Rivers.  The stats don't back up your memory.

[Boo Khaki]

Telegraphing his passes and throwing into double-coverage, but completing 36/46 at ten yards a clip, hardly the inept and ineffectual performance you are alleging.

Both INT's were horrible, but as I keep saying, Rivers is no longer the QB that you can gameplan on throwing the ball 45+ times and expect to win. He hasn't been that player in 5+ years, and if he was there's no way the Chargers would have let him walk.

FWIW I didn't mention T.O.P anywhere, merely that when your D had the chance to stop Minshew and the Jags they kept blowing coverages and missing tackles on players well short of the 1st down marker. Rivers made  two mistakes yesterday, but he was far from the only Colt having brainfart moments on that field. The penalties extending Jags drives were his fault? The blown coverages and missed tackles were Rivers' fault?

What exactly are you expecting if your QB passing for 346 yards on the road, completing 78% of his passes, and going at 10YPC is somehow the biggest problem with your team? If you're expecting perfect 400+ yard  games week-in week-out then you a)signed the wrong QB, and b) were presumably hoping for a free-agent signing that wasn't on the market in the first place.

The Colts gameplan put far too much of the game on Rivers shoulders, and totally predictably he tries to do too much in those circumstances. He is not and never has been QB who will throw it OOB on 3rd down while you are trailing by 4 points late in the game. That's why, at this stage in his career, you have to run the ball and limit the number of times you expect him to throw it, otherwise you are just setting yourself up to lose. You can't blame him for 'single-handedly' losing games when the gameplan is clearly to rely on him single-handedly winning them by having him throw it a ridiculous number of times. The Colts supposedly have a top OL and are alleged to have a capable D, but you wouldn't think that going by the play-calling balance yesterday and the number of times they couldn't get the Jags off the field.

The Rivers you saw yesterday was no different to the Rivers of the past few years any time the Chargers were trailing and asked him to throw the ball to that degree, so I'm really not sure what on earth the Colts were expecting. As an OC Reich was utterly hopeless in SD and I thought he was making a far better fist of the HC'ing gig, but he really should have been pulling rank on whoever was calling that O. That entire Colts performance was prototypical of the McCoy/Reich-inspired clownfests I watched in SD back in 2014/15. Dominating yardage, looking by far the more accomplished team, only to be incapable of getting off the field when it actually mattered, and letting a poorer opponent hang around long enough to win it late on. 

Far from being 'fucked' with PR at QB, if Indi actually runs the ball and limits him to 25-30 attempts per game then you'll comfortably win that division. It's no coincidence that this is exactly how SD/LAC got their wins over the past five years or so, and also no coincidence that every time Rivers has gone beyond those numbers it's usually in a loss. I would have thought that would be blindingly obvious by now to an NFL staff, so god alone knows what the thought process was yesterday.