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Mr. Brightside

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7 hours ago, Torpar said:

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/the-newest-name-of-the-football-field-in-orchard-park-bills-stadium/article_a613fc5e-e0b9-11ea-bee3-3f9c5fdf944a.html

The Bills using the same creative team as Washington for their new stadium name, not sure what's wrong with going back to Ralph Wilson Stadium 

Since they’re going to sell its naming rights maybe they don’t want to use that for a year And then go to another sponsor?

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10 hours ago, AmericanFan said:

I don’t get the love for Murray, either. He’s the fourth-best quarterback in that division and some in the media are treating him like he’s going to be a top5 QB overall this year.

Simmons is from KC so I’ll be rooting for him.

Nonsense. Goff and Garoppolo are hugely overrated QBs, and Murray is already above their level.

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3 hours ago, die hard doonhamer said:

Nonsense. Goff and Garoppolo are hugely overrated QBs, and Murray is already above their level.

Seriously?

What evidence is there of that?

While both Goff and Garropolo may be overrated, Garropolo had a WAY better year than overhyped Murray last year and Goff threw for nearly 1,000 more yards and more touchdowns.

Wake me up when Murray even comes close to having a season like Goff did in 17 and 18.
 

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On 19/08/2020 at 00:27, steelmen said:

 

 


Fixed it.

The move to LA is really silly.

 

 

They should never have left SD as that's the team's only genuine fan base. Spanos family genuinely don't have the financial clout to build a modern NFL facility though, and the city always had other priorities for public money. LA will no doubt turn into a short-lived, half-assed misadventure, but there really weren't any other options available at the time. Jack Murphy is a total shit heap of a stadium by modern NFL standards so they really had to get out of there no matter what.

I think they'll inevitably be playing outside the LA area within ten years, but it's just a question of who comes up with a package to attractive enough to NFL owners to sanction the move. The LA stadium is a huge white elephant, and I don't see the Rams having a viable long-term future there either. Outside of San Fran California really isn't a football market at all, too many other distractions, and the politicians are too 'liberal' in terms of having the will to keep NFL franchises around for very long. It's not a huge public priority, so that's reflected in the people they elect and their policies.  

The only thing SD really had was that there's a huge Mexican and Latino element to their fan base down there that genuinely do see themselves as Chargers through and through, and would never take to the Raiders, for example, in the way that some US NFL fans will switch their focus to whichever franchise happens to be playing locally. I always thought that if Mexico was ever going to be a viable long-term market for the NFL then the Chargers were the obvious candidate to move down there, but I think that throws up all the same fundamental problems that the much mooted 'London Franchise' poses and I don't see any realistic way to resolve them. Canada is no-go for a permanent franchise either, so god alone knows where the Chargers and Rams will eventually end up. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see them back in SD and St.Louis eventually.

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14 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

They should never have left SD as that's the team's only genuine fan base. Spanos family genuinely don't have the financial clout to build a modern NFL facility though, and the city always had other priorities for public money. LA will no doubt turn into a short-lived, half-assed misadventure, but there really weren't any other options available at the time. Jack Murphy is a total shit heap of a stadium by modern NFL standards so they really had to get out of there no matter what.

I think they'll inevitably be playing outside the LA area within ten years, but it's just a question of who comes up with a package to attractive enough to NFL owners to sanction the move. The LA stadium is a huge white elephant, and I don't see the Rams having a viable long-term future there either. Outside of San Fran California really isn't a football market at all, too many other distractions, and the politicians are too 'liberal' in terms of having the will to keep NFL franchises around for very long. It's not a huge public priority, so that's reflected in the people they elect and their policies.  

The only thing SD really had was that there's a huge Mexican and Latino element to their fan base down there that genuinely do see themselves as Chargers through and through, and would never take to the Raiders, for example, in the way that some US NFL fans will switch their focus to whichever franchise happens to be playing locally. I always thought that if Mexico was ever going to be a viable long-term market for the NFL then the Chargers were the obvious candidate to move down there, but I think that throws up all the same fundamental problems that the much mooted 'London Franchise' poses and I don't see any realistic way to resolve them. Canada is no-go for a permanent franchise either, so god alone knows where the Chargers and Rams will eventually end up. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see them back in SD and St.Louis eventually.

I agree with pretty much all of this, but I'm not sure how short-lived it will be. The Chargers are paying $1 to be a tenant there. Even if they draw 15K fans a game (most of which will be of the visiting team), they'll still make money from the league's TV deal. And as you say, where would they go?  They just paid the relocation fee of nearly half a billion $, so they'd have to pay that again and build a new stadium (at least that's the impression I'm under), and the Jaguars are largely thought of as the team that will eventually be moved to London.

While imo it was incredibly dumb for both franchises to move to LA, Kroenke is spending reportedly $5 billion of his own money on the stadium, and being the stubborn p***k he is, he will attempt to make it work as long as possible. You may be right in that both franchises return to SD and SL, but it may not be for another 20 years.

In the meantime, whenever the NFL gets back to normal crowd sizes in 2021 or 2022, the Chargers may just have to live with taking $300-plus million a year from a new TV deal and be made fun of for having 15-20K fans (except when they play Dallas, Seattle, San Franciso, New York) a game.

Ironically, if the league decides the Chargers are too much of a pish-show 6-7 years from now, their best option to move to might be St. Louis.

 

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Assuming Covid clears off, the Chargers are not going to be playing in front of 15-20k. They had no problems selling tickets at Stubhub, in fact, the place was sold out for every game they played there IIRC. Likewise, the early uptake for the new stadium was well in excess of forecasts. The problem the Chargers have is not one of simply punting tickets, or even one of filling seats, their problem is exactly who is filling the seats. 

It was the same for much of the tenure in SD outside of a period in the late 70's and early 80's, a few years in the early 90's, and again between 2004-2010'ish. SD fans go to watch their team when the team is competitive, and having been in a multitude of various NFL stadia across the US as well as games in SD, I can say that when they are turning out there's no comparative deficiency in either their enthusiasm or the atmosphere they create in terms of a home advantage. It's certainly much more marked than somewhere like Miami for example, where the stadium resembles a morgue no matter how full it is and how competitive the team is.

The problem the Chargers have, is that when the team is not competitive, i.e. for most of the past 10 years, football fans in SoCal have a multitude of other things they'd rather be doing than sitting in baking heat watching a shit-awful football team in a shit-awful stadium. That problem, combined with the fact that SD and LA both have huge transient populations, are both visitor destinations for travellers within the US, means that it becomes both extremely easy and very profitable to sell your ticket on to someone else who might, or might not in most cases, actually want to attend with the intention of backing the Chargers. 

It's not a straightforward lack of fans, and I don't expect them to struggle for attendance in LA once the restrictions are out of the picture. It's a problem of who exactly is attending your games, and how that affects your brand and the perception of the worth of your franchise. If the Chargers are playing winning football and appearing in the playoffs regularly, then they'll have no problems attracting enough people into that stadium to create a raucous partisan home atmosphere. That was never a problem even in SD despite the recent perceptions of the Chargers as a team with no fanbase. The problem is that if they're playing .500 football or below, then Chargers fans will simply punt their ticket to the highest bidder and go do something else, so you'll see a stadium that appears half-full, and the only people making noise will be the transplants and holidaymakers that bought that ticket specifically because they're a fan of the visiting team. No different to what happened latterly in SD and what happened throughout the tenure at Stubhub. The big difference is 30k in Stubhub is a full house, but 30k in the new place will look empty.

As much as I love diehard football territory like Buffalo, Green Bay, Pittsburgh etc, I think something that is often lost on people is that on your average November or December Sunday in upstate NY, there really isn't much that is all that inspiring to do except go get piss drunk and root for the Bills. The fanbase develops a reputation for being fanatical despite 20 year long playoff droughts. There's essentially no difference between the franchises in places like SD and Buffalo, but if Buffalo suddenly developed SD-like weather and facilities, I think you'd see a fair fewer 'rabid' fans sitting in the stands in December watching the Bills clown their way to 4-12, again....

Edited by Boo Khaki
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On 24/08/2020 at 10:10, lichtie23 said:

Dolphins to allow 13,000 fans into their opener against the Bills

In a 70,000 stadium? I guess social distancing will be possible.

Although Florida is the virus hotzone in this country so I don't think it should happen.

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On 22/08/2020 at 07:29, Boo Khaki said:

 

  

On 22/08/2020 at 07:29, Boo Khaki said:

Assuming Covid clears off, the Chargers are not going to be playing in front of 15-20k. They had no problems selling tickets at Stubhub, in fact, the place was sold out for every game they played there IIRC. Likewise, the early uptake for the new stadium was well in excess of forecasts. The problem the Chargers have is not one of simply punting tickets, or even one of filling seats, their problem is exactly who is filling the seats. 

It was the same for much of the tenure in SD outside of a period in the late 70's and early 80's, a few years in the early 90's, and again between 2004-2010'ish. SD fans go to watch their team when the team is competitive, and having been in a multitude of various NFL stadia across the US as well as games in SD, I can say that when they are turning out there's no comparative deficiency in either their enthusiasm or the atmosphere they create in terms of a home advantage. It's certainly much more marked than somewhere like Miami for example, where the stadium resembles a morgue no matter how full it is and how competitive the team is.

The problem the Chargers have, is that when the team is not competitive, i.e. for most of the past 10 years, football fans in SoCal have a multitude of other things they'd rather be doing than sitting in baking heat watching a shit-awful football team in a shit-awful stadium. That problem, combined with the fact that SD and LA both have huge transient populations, are both visitor destinations for travellers within the US, means that it becomes both extremely easy and very profitable to sell your ticket on to someone else who might, or might not in most cases, actually want to attend with the intention of backing the Chargers. 

It's not a straightforward lack of fans, and I don't expect them to struggle for attendance in LA once the restrictions are out of the picture. It's a problem of who exactly is attending your games, and how that affects your brand and the perception of the worth of your franchise. If the Chargers are playing winning football and appearing in the playoffs regularly, then they'll have no problems attracting enough people into that stadium to create a raucous partisan home atmosphere. That was never a problem even in SD despite the recent perceptions of the Chargers as a team with no fanbase. The problem is that if they're playing .500 football or below, then Chargers fans will simply punt their ticket to the highest bidder and go do something else, so you'll see a stadium that appears half-full, and the only people making noise will be the transplants and holidaymakers that bought that ticket specifically because they're a fan of the visiting team. No different to what happened latterly in SD and what happened throughout the tenure at Stubhub. The big difference is 30k in Stubhub is a full house, but 30k in the new place will look empty.

As much as I love diehard football territory like Buffalo, Green Bay, Pittsburgh etc, I think something that is often lost on people is that on your average November or December Sunday in upstate NY, there really isn't much that is all that inspiring to do except go get piss drunk and root for the Bills. The fanbase develops a reputation for being fanatical despite 20 year long playoff droughts. There's essentially no difference between the franchises in places like SD and Buffalo, but if Buffalo suddenly developed SD-like weather and facilities, I think you'd see a fair fewer 'rabid' fans sitting in the stands in December watching the Bills clown their way to 4-12, again....

What I highlighted is not even close to correct. Even by their own blatantly inflated announced crowds of 25K last fall they were still well short of a sellout, and if you ever saw a game on TV, you'd know the place was rarely more than half full (and most of the time less than that), unless it was visiting fans. So they were drawing 15K-20K last year, if not lower. Unless you want to believe the propaganda numbers the team puts out.

https://twitter.com/MartyCaswell/status/1066830687976615936/photo/1

And that's from 2018 when they were going 12-4 and supposedly had average crowds of 32K, which would actually require there to be standing-room only fans since Stubhub's (or whatever they're calling it now) capacity is 30K.

There's a reason Melvin Gordon joked when he went to the Broncos that he was used to playing in front of no fans, it's because people weren't showing up in LA (unless they were visiting fans).

https://www.si.com/nfl/video/2020/05/29/hot-clicks-melvin-gordon-no-fans

I have no problem with Chargers fans or think they're bad fans, they've just been treated like crap by Spanos for too long.  The move to LA was categorically dumb and the results of playing in a soccer stadium in LA while your fans are in San Diego have pretty much proved me correct. 

Here's another article that explains the issue, and it lists some of the points you touch on, but let's not act like Chargers fans were showing up in droves and buying tickets like crazy. 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/11/5/20938084/chargers-stadium-fans-attendance-los-angeles-london-move

Edited by AmericanFan
accidental double quote
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 but let's not act like Chargers fans were showing up in droves and buying tickets like crazy.

I'm not contending that they were. Selling tickets and people actually attending the games are not one and the same thing. At Stubhub the Chargers were selling the full allocation of tickets for home games, which as far as the team is concerned constitutes a sell out, whether those tickets are going to individual fans or into the stock of third parties. This was while they were among the highest priced tickets in the entire NFL. The reason the ticket price never moved despite half-empty stands, is that Spanos wasn't losing any money other than the concessions that the extra 10-15K of a genuine full-house would generate. The cheapest ticket for a Chargers home game at Stubhub was in the region of $220 iirc, which perhaps explains a lot about why interest in picking them up from vendors was minimal, why locals weren't turning up, and why a lot of individuals were selling theirs on for profit to out of towners.

Remember, its not like every single home game has 30K tickets available on the open market. A lot of people were buying season tickets with no intention of ever attending matches, simply so they could sell seats for individual games on to third parties. This was an issue even in SD latterly, and evidently the higher prices at Stubhub made it even more of an issue.

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11 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

I'm not contending that they were. Selling tickets and people actually attending the games are not one and the same thing. At Stubhub the Chargers were selling the full allocation of tickets for home games, which as far as the team is concerned constitutes a sell out, whether those tickets are going to individual fans or into the stock of third parties. This was while they were among the highest priced tickets in the entire NFL. The reason the ticket price never moved despite half-empty stands, is that Spanos wasn't losing any money other than the concessions that the extra 10-15K of a genuine full-house would generate. The cheapest ticket for a Chargers home game at Stubhub was in the region of $220 iirc, which perhaps explains a lot about why interest in picking them up from vendors was minimal, why locals weren't turning up, and why a lot of individuals were selling theirs on for profit to out of towners.

Remember, its not like every single home game has 30K tickets available on the open market. A lot of people were buying season tickets with no intention of ever attending matches, simply so they could sell seats for individual games on to third parties. This was an issue even in SD latterly, and evidently the higher prices at Stubhub made it even more of an issue.

I think we're about 97 percent on the same page here, mate. Cheers.

I wish the Chargers were actually in another division from my Chiefs. My whole family basically went to TCU, so I'm a huge LaDainian Tomlinson fan.

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On 25/08/2020 at 17:59, thekorean said:

In a 70,000 stadium? I guess social distancing will be possible.

Although Florida is the virus hotzone in this country so I don't think it should happen.

Chiefs are allowing 16K in their first game. I don't get it? The billionaire NFL owners don't need the money, so wait until October to reassess while forbidding fans the first 3-4 games.

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It's not really the fans inside the stadium part of it that I don't get, it's easy enough to spread 16k people out inside a stadium that holds over 70k. It's the fact you're attracting 16K people +hangers on into the parking lot, tailgaiting etc. Surely it's just yet another thing they're going to have to police, but then, if family groups are going to be able to stand and drink and eat together outside the stadium, what's the point in separating them inside?

Seems a bit daft that some teams will have fans inside their stadia, other not. Ok, I get that rules are different from State to State, but then the NFL holds collectivism as sacred, you'd think they'd have a one size fits all policy for the sake of unity and the appearance of solidarity if nothing else.

1 hour ago, AmericanFan said:

Chiefs are allowing 16K in their first game. I don't get it? The billionaire NFL owners don't need the money, so wait until October to reassess while forbidding fans the first 3-4 games.

Yup, can only be about money. Which is baffling.

Edited by Boo Khaki
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I think we're about 97 percent on the same page here, mate. Cheers.
I wish the Chargers were actually in another division from my Chiefs. My whole family basically went to TCU, so I'm a huge LaDainian Tomlinson fan.
I think LT was the best RB in the 20 years I've been watching NFL.

A cracking player.
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