Scots punters wagered £4,200,000,000 on FOBT's in 1 year !

[kev23]

Ah right I see, wasn't sure how you would keep proof you'd won but obviously they'd print a receipt or something.

From the machines I've played you dont get any winnings from the machine but the machine prints out a receipt which you take to the counter

[Honest_Man#1]

From the machines I've played you dont get any winnings from the machine but the machine prints out a receipt which you take to the counter

Never played one, was just interested, cheers.

[Loki]

So if you won say £5K on a FOBT and the shop couldn't pay you, what happens? Surely they can't keep your winnings?

Basically in the terms and conditions in each shop it will state that they will pay any winnings in a certain period. They would never keep your winnings, as a bookie that never paid out winnings would lose a lot more in negative publicity. In the instances I talked about we would ask the customer the most convenient time in the future for them to come collect their winnings. The money would be available then. Cheques would also be given out at times. Also you have the right to ask for the money in cash, so the area director would come and withdraw the cash and give it to you in person if it was a large amount and you wanted the cash.

[Cardinal Richelieu]

There's a guy in work who regularly gambles away a lot of money. Sometimes he wins big, other times he loses £40 - 50 that he's staked, then buggers off to the cashpoint to chase his losses.

I've tried explaining to him that a) he should only gamble what he can afford, if he has to gamble and b) it'd be worth keeping a notepad of how much money he's put in, at what odds, and what he's won/lost so he can get an idea of just how much of his own money he's losing over X months, but he still uses his overdraft for the machines frequently, and can't be arsed keeping track of his betting.

Massive problem, and something that really needs to be cracked down on. Edit: and certainly not actively encouraged!

I put a tenner in once when I went to the bookies with him out of curiousity, and surprise surprise none of my numbers came up. The temptation to stick another tenner in was incredible, and though I could resist it I can see how others can find it highly addictive, particularly my friend if he did manage to get a big win. Instant gratification etc. Never playing one of those machines again, thanks largely to seeing threads on P&B about the things, when you know how much bookies rake in each year from them it puts a different light on things. They've already got £10 from me that I'll never get back, and that's with 1 play on 1 machine, and at 10% of the maximum bet you can put on!

Be thankful you didn't win. Probably the best £10 you've ever spent in your life.

I firmly believe that that's how most problem gambling arises - the first time you do it, if you win.. you're hooked. My first ever gambling was on a ferry when I was about 8 years ago... I couldn't even put the money in without standing on a chair. I stuck 50p and won a fortune - £11 .... while that was fine and dandy, I can't help but think if I hadn't won, I probably wouldn't have lost the amount of money I have on gambling since.

[HoBNob]

Starting to get quite worried about how much I use these machines, started of by going to the bookies with my mates on lunch at college and just watching them, eventually got to the stage where I started playing.

I only play Blackjack and to start with I'd put in a tenner, two hands at 1 quid and if I got upto £20 I'd be happy, progressed to the point where I put in £20 and would hope to get to £35 with two pound stakes.

All rather reasonable and simple, except I've then started to chase my loses, never before has it failed before today, put in twenty pound and in the space of about a minute it was gone, didn't win one hand, chucked in another twenty, same story. Now with the benefit of hindsight I should've walked out the store, what I shouldn't have done was put in another twenty

£60 gone in about 10 minutes, why I kept going is anyone's guess.

Technically I'm still in a profit, won over £100 last week and today was only the second time I've made a loss(other time being £20) so as far as profits go I'm up about £120, losing £60 has set the fear into me though...

I don't make a point of going in, it's usually just if I miss my bus and have to wait half an hour I'll pop in, can see why people get addicted.

[Loki]

The technically it was profit, it was the bookies money etc are classic excuses. My advice to you would be forget that it was profit, it was your money you lost. Once you have won anything, it is now yours. Once people realise this they will become better gamblers. You can not win long term playing FOBTs. You could get lucky, and win short term, but ultimately they will gobble up your money.

[SS-18 ICBM]

The technically it was profit, it was the bookies money etc are classic excuses. My advice to you would be forget that it was profit, it was your money you lost. Once you have won anything, it is now yours. Once people realise this they will become better gamblers. You can not win long term playing FOBTs. You could get lucky, and win short term, but ultimately they will gobble up your money.

Good advice, i reckon.

[HoBNob]

You can not win long term playing FOBTs. You could get lucky, and win short term, but ultimately they will gobble up your money.

Won £62 today

Tbf I get what you're saying about it being excuses but it was still correct, when I tally my money from going into the Bookies I am in a profit, if you want I'll remove the word "technicality" but either way it's still correct.

Reckon though that with me winning "my" money back I'll go back to the small wagers, happy days.

[KD1711]

Just dropped 1k on roulette tonight, things are a fucking disease.

[Booker-T]

CRITICS claim betting is particularly high in poorer areas with high levels of unemployment, as figures revealed the largest amount gambled last year was in Glasgow Central.

Punters become addicted to the casino-style games.

Tom Ross http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk

SCOTS gamblers spend the equivalent of £1000 for every man and woman in the country on high stakes slot machines.

New research reveals that punters north of the border splash out far more per head than the English and Welsh on the fixed odds betting terminals in bookies’ shops.

Yesterday, campaigners and politicians voiced concerns about the machines which have been branded “crack cocaine” for gamblers.

They allow punters to bet up to £100 every 20 seconds on computer-generated versions of casino games such as roulette, poker and blackjack.

Figures show Scots staked £4.2billion on the touchscreen machines last year – £993 for every adult in the country.

That equates to £802 per head of population overall, compared to £644 in England and £511 in Wales.

The shock figures were produced by the Campaign for Fairer Gambling using betting industry data.

Report author Adrian Parkinson, who worked as a regional machine manager at Tote until 2008, said: “I was responsible for testing the machines between 1998 and 2001, then launching them on the high street.

“By 2003, I saw the problems coming through, with feedback from shop managers that punters were getting addicted to these machines.

“In 2008, I was asked to formulate quite an aggressive marketing policy promoting FOBTs, but I refused.

“It wasn’t socially responsible to entice people to play games where there was a possibility they might become addicted.

“I don’t dispute that for some people they are fun and enjoyable, but they represent high risk, particularly in areas of deprivation where people are gambling with money they can’t afford to lose.”

Gamblers Anonymous Scotland said: “This is a major issue. Most of the people who are coming to us now have a problem with roulette machines.

“People become hooked, it’s almost like they get an instant fix. Some people with debts see them as a solution – but they only make things worse.”

There are more than 4000 FOBTs in bookmakers’ shops in Scotland.

Campaigners claim spending is particularly high in poorer areas with high levels of unemployment.

Their figures, broken down into parliamentary constituencies, show the biggest amount gambled was in Glasgow Central, where £243million was staked last year.

In Glasgow North East – which includes Sighthill, Possilpark, Milton and Springburn – more than £137million was fed into the machines.

Glasgow North East MP Willie Bain said: “There are 36 bookmakers with 131 fixed odds betting terminals, raking in £4.2million in an area where the average wage is under £17,600 a year.

“I am concerned about the number of these machines and the frequency with which people play them, going through stacks of money in a very short time.

“Labour is calling on the government for a review.

“At a time when living standards are under unprecedented threat, companies are preying on some of the poorest constituencies in the country.”

A spokesman for the Salvation Army, long-term opponents of gambling, said: “With fixed odds betting terminals, you keep feeding money in and lose track of what you are spending.

“People are losing thousands of pounds a day and there is no way that anyone can afford to lose that amount of money.

“It is not ‘entertaining’ or ‘fun’ if you have lost money that you needed for your rent, heating and food.”

FOBTs were introduced in Britain in 2001. Last year, Harriet Harman said that Labour had made a mistake by allowing them when in government and admitted that they were “ruining the high street and people’s lives”.

But bookies argue that the £4.2billion figure includes money won on the machines then fed back in again.

Kate Miller, of William Hill, said: “The numbers being bandied around are turnover and 97 per cent is returned to the customer. That is a clear distinction that needs to be made.”

The bookies’ figures suggest that, after paying out winners, each machine makes them around £900 a week.

Ciaran O’Brien, of Ladbrokes, said: “The average spend on a machine session is less than £7. The stakes figure is very misleading.

“With a very low margin FOBTs are a popular and fun product, generating a lot of tax and protecting employment.”

An Association of British Bookmakers spokesman agreed that the figures were “misleading”

He added: “We have always believed that customers have the right to decide how they spend their money.

“We take our social responsibilities extremely seriously which is why we voluntarily contribute £5million each year for the research, education and treatment of problem gamblers.

if people want to gamble let them gamble.

just don't let them gamble their benefits

[KD1711]

if people want to gamble let them gamble.

just don't let them gamble their benefits

So it's alright to let an addict gamble away utility bills and essentials such as food? Because they are working?

[Loki]

The sad thing is these machines are there to extort money from the needy. The whole way they are marketed and are easy to play make it easy for people to play. The temptation to flutter your money away to try and win big is hard to turn down for many people. The betting shops only play lip service to gamble aware, and even giving out the leaflets and telling people they should think about barring themselves would be met with disgust by management at times. "He's our best customer".

In the very near future the Universal Credit system is going to come in. People in benefits will get their housing benefit, council tax benefit, Job Seekers allowance etc paid to them in full. The temptation for vulnerable people will surely increase. Although on the BBC today it seems that some MPs are lobbying for the maximum stake on FOBTs to be lowered considerably. A good move in my opinion.

[mattydfc]

These things are the devil.

[HEY_SIDNEY]

Ah Roulette machines. The ying to my yang, the cheese to my beano . . .

That now about 8 years i have been hooked on them. I dont try and sugar coat it.

Spent thousands when i was 18 after my party and gettin my student loan and bursary....

Won about £12k back in xmas 08 into new year 09.

Luckily i have people on this who know what my addiction is like. Wild. Not something i am proud of but i dont hide it.

KD1711 knows how bad it can be and the people of Airdrie are probably making up about 15% lol.

They are what most people think - The Devil.

[Ayr_United_1910]

In the very near future the Universal Credit system is going to come in. People in benefits will get their housing benefit, council tax benefit, Job Seekers allowance etc paid to them in full. The temptation for vulnerable people will surely increase. Although on the BBC today it seems that some MPs are lobbying for the maximum stake on FOBTs to be lowered considerably. A good move in my opinion.

This is a big concern. I work for my local council in the housing benefit department & the amount of problems that this Universal Credit is going to cause is not even worth thinking about. Until I read this thread I hadn't actually thought about gambling addicts, more alcoholics and drug addicts. For anyone not aware as Loki says, a person on social security benefits will get their housing benefit, council tax benefit, jobseekers allowance & whatever else they may be entitled to in a one monthly payment. So adding that up they'll get say in the region of £800+. Currently they don't really see the housing benefit/council tax benefit money as it goes into their rent accounts etc (I'm talking more about council tenants etc) & only get their fortnightly 'brew' money of about £120(estimate). It is then their responsibility to pay their bills and budget their money to last the month..........which in the real world is not going to happen and the country will have massive problems with debt, evictions etc.

Onto the topic discussion I hate those machines too and have def lost more than I've won on them, but I think that is down to not really having a proper understanding of how each game works. I've seen me sticking a tenner in and the most I've really won is like £40, the majority of the time my tenner is lost. As someone else said, it's the same faces day after day when you walk by the bookies playing them, mainly the Chinese punters, certainly in Ayr.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Ayr_United_1910

[mid-table]

I am not particularly proud of this, but I spent a couple of hours playing roulette today. I should be self-excluded from being able to do this but one site slipped through the net.

Anyway, my bet history is below. For those who can't comprehend how people get problems from playing these machines, I hope this goes some way to, not explaining it, but demonstrating it.

I played for 132 minutes.

I had 150 spins.

I staked £5,965 in this time.

I lost £1,078 in 95 minutes.

I then won £1,504 in 33 minutes.

I got very lucky today, I was irresponsible and shouldn't have done it, but I was bored sitting at home just watching the darts.

Time Stake Return Cumulative Stake Profit / Loss

15:28:34 £12.00 £0.00 £12.00 -£12.00

15:29:28 £12.00 £0.00 £24.00 -£24.00

15:30:17 £12.00 £0.00 £36.00 -£36.00

15:30:58 £12.00 £0.00 £48.00 -£48.00

15:31:40 £12.00 £21.60 £60.00 -£38.40

15:32:20 £12.00 £28.80 £72.00 -£21.60

15:32:55 £12.00 £0.00 £84.00 -£33.60

15:33:35 £12.00 £0.00 £96.00 -£45.60

15:34:08 £12.00 £0.00 £108.00 -£57.60

15:34:44 £12.00 £0.00 £120.00 -£69.60

15:35:24 £12.00 £0.00 £132.00 -£81.60

15:36:14 £19.00 £0.00 £151.00 -£100.60

15:36:53 £19.00 £0.00 £170.00 -£119.60

15:37:34 £19.00 £0.00 £189.00 -£138.60

15:38:00 £19.00 £0.00 £208.00 -£157.60

15:38:47 £19.00 £0.00 £227.00 -£176.60

15:39:37 £24.00 £0.00 £251.00 -£200.60

15:42:06 £24.00 £0.00 £275.00 -£224.60

15:42:43 £24.00 £28.80 £299.00 -£219.80

15:43:21 £24.00 £0.00 £323.00 -£243.80

15:44:03 £24.00 £43.20 £347.00 -£224.60

15:44:45 £24.00 £36.00 £371.00 -£212.60

15:45:27 £24.00 £0.00 £395.00 -£236.60

15:46:16 £24.00 £0.00 £419.00 -£260.60

15:47:10 £24.00 £61.20 £443.00 -£223.40

15:48:04 £24.00 £21.60 £467.00 -£225.80

15:48:52 £24.00 £0.00 £491.00 -£249.80

15:49:29 £24.00 £0.00 £515.00 -£273.80

15:50:39 £24.00 £0.00 £539.00 -£297.80

15:55:15 £18.00 £0.00 £557.00 -£315.80

15:56:14 £18.00 £0.00 £575.00 -£333.80

15:57:00 £18.00 £28.80 £593.00 -£323.00

15:57:42 £18.00 £0.00 £611.00 -£341.00

15:58:22 £18.00 £0.00 £629.00 -£359.00

15:58:57 £18.00 £0.00 £647.00 -£377.00

15:59:48 £23.00 £0.00 £670.00 -£400.00

16:03:02 £19.00 £57.60 £689.00 -£361.40

16:03:55 £19.00 £0.00 £708.00 -£380.40

16:04:38 £19.00 £0.00 £727.00 -£399.40

16:05:11 £19.00 £0.00 £746.00 -£418.40

16:06:32 £19.00 £0.00 £765.00 -£437.40

16:07:28 £19.00 £57.60 £784.00 -£398.80

16:08:26 £19.00 £0.00 £803.00 -£417.80

16:09:23 £19.00 £0.00 £822.00 -£436.80

16:10:02 £19.00 £216.00 £841.00 -£239.80

16:10:54 £31.00 £180.00 £872.00 -£90.80

16:11:52 £31.00 £14.40 £903.00 -£107.40

16:12:56 £31.00 £0.00 £934.00 -£138.40

16:14:34 £31.00 £14.40 £965.00 -£155.00

16:16:20 £31.00 £14.40 £996.00 -£171.60

16:17:07 £31.00 £0.00 £1,027.00 -£202.60

16:17:59 £31.00 £0.00 £1,058.00 -£233.60

16:18:43 £31.00 £18.00 £1,089.00 -£246.60

16:19:23 £31.00 £57.60 £1,120.00 -£220.00

16:20:10 £31.00 £43.20 £1,151.00 -£207.80

16:20:50 £31.00 £0.00 £1,182.00 -£238.80

16:21:34 £31.00 £0.00 £1,213.00 -£269.80

16:22:32 £31.00 £36.00 £1,244.00 -£264.80

16:23:18 £36.00 £28.80 £1,280.00 -£272.00

16:23:59 £36.00 £28.80 £1,316.00 -£279.20

16:24:39 £36.00 £0.00 £1,352.00 -£315.20

16:25:13 £36.00 £18.00 £1,388.00 -£333.20

16:26:01 £36.00 £57.60 £1,424.00 -£311.60

16:26:46 £36.00 £0.00 £1,460.00 -£347.60

16:27:23 £36.00 £18.00 £1,496.00 -£365.60

16:28:09 £36.00 £0.00 £1,532.00 -£401.60

16:28:49 £36.00 £0.00 £1,568.00 -£437.60

16:29:18 £36.00 £28.80 £1,604.00 -£444.80

16:30:16 £36.00 £0.00 £1,640.00 -£480.80

16:31:02 £36.00 £28.80 £1,676.00 -£488.00

16:31:49 £36.00 £0.00 £1,712.00 -£524.00

16:32:24 £36.00 £234.00 £1,748.00 -£326.00

16:33:15 £36.00 £0.00 £1,784.00 -£362.00

16:34:10 £38.00 £28.80 £1,822.00 -£371.20

16:34:58 £38.00 £0.00 £1,860.00 -£409.20

16:35:34 £38.00 £57.60 £1,898.00 -£389.60

16:36:12 £38.00 £0.00 £1,936.00 -£427.60

16:36:46 £38.00 £0.00 £1,974.00 -£465.60

16:37:22 £38.00 £72.00 £2,012.00 -£431.60

16:38:11 £38.00 £0.00 £2,050.00 -£469.60

16:38:45 £38.00 £0.00 £2,088.00 -£507.60

16:39:24 £38.00 £28.80 £2,126.00 -£516.80

16:40:09 £38.00 £0.00 £2,164.00 -£554.80

16:41:04 £38.00 £0.00 £2,202.00 -£592.80

16:43:08 £38.00 £0.00 £2,240.00 -£630.80

16:44:32 £38.00 £0.00 £2,278.00 -£668.80

16:45:12 £38.00 £0.00 £2,316.00 -£706.80

16:46:10 £38.00 £0.00 £2,354.00 -£744.80

16:47:38 £56.00 £0.00 £2,410.00 -£800.80

16:52:22 £20.00 £0.00 £2,430.00 -£820.80

16:53:09 £25.00 £0.00 £2,455.00 -£845.80

16:53:40 £25.00 £0.00 £2,480.00 -£870.80

16:54:21 £25.00 £0.00 £2,505.00 -£895.80

16:54:54 £25.00 £43.20 £2,530.00 -£877.60

16:55:28 £25.00 £28.80 £2,555.00 -£873.80

16:56:22 £55.00 £108.00 £2,610.00 -£820.80

16:57:15 £55.00 £72.00 £2,665.00 -£803.80

16:58:03 £55.00 £0.00 £2,720.00 -£858.80

16:58:46 £55.00 £0.00 £2,775.00 -£913.80

16:59:47 £55.00 £0.00 £2,830.00 -£968.80

17:01:45 £55.00 £0.00 £2,885.00 -£1,023.80

17:03:12 £55.00 £0.00 £2,940.00 -£1,078.80

17:04:06 £55.00 £144.00 £2,995.00 -£989.80

17:04:59 £55.00 £0.00 £3,050.00 -£1,044.80

17:05:55 £55.00 £360.00 £3,105.00 -£739.80

17:06:42 £65.00 £144.00 £3,170.00 -£660.80

17:07:20 £65.00 £0.00 £3,235.00 -£725.80

17:08:06 £65.00 £72.00 £3,300.00 -£718.80

17:08:45 £65.00 £0.00 £3,365.00 -£783.80

17:09:36 £65.00 £72.00 £3,430.00 -£776.80

17:10:22 £65.00 £108.00 £3,495.00 -£733.80

17:11:04 £65.00 £108.00 £3,560.00 -£690.80

17:11:42 £65.00 £43.20 £3,625.00 -£712.60

17:12:26 £65.00 £450.00 £3,690.00 -£327.60

17:13:10 £65.00 £0.00 £3,755.00 -£392.60

17:13:53 £65.00 £0.00 £3,820.00 -£457.60

17:14:29 £65.00 £0.00 £3,885.00 -£522.60

17:15:09 £65.00 £108.00 £3,950.00 -£479.60

17:15:59 £65.00 £522.00 £4,015.00 -£22.60

17:16:45 £65.00 £0.00 £4,080.00 -£87.60

17:17:23 £65.00 £28.80 £4,145.00 -£123.80

17:18:02 £65.00 £0.00 £4,210.00 -£188.80

17:18:41 £65.00 £57.60 £4,275.00 -£196.20

17:19:24 £65.00 £0.00 £4,340.00 -£261.20

17:20:04 £65.00 £0.00 £4,405.00 -£326.20

17:20:38 £65.00 £36.00 £4,470.00 -£355.20

17:21:16 £65.00 £72.00 £4,535.00 -£348.20

17:21:58 £65.00 £108.00 £4,600.00 -£305.20

17:22:35 £65.00 £450.00 £4,665.00 £79.80

17:23:40 £65.00 £14.40 £4,730.00 £29.20

17:24:25 £65.00 £0.00 £4,795.00 -£35.80

17:25:06 £65.00 £144.00 £4,860.00 £43.20

17:25:47 £65.00 £108.00 £4,925.00 £86.20

17:26:25 £65.00 £0.00 £4,990.00 £21.20

17:27:07 £65.00 £108.00 £5,055.00 £64.20

17:27:59 £65.00 £57.60 £5,120.00 £56.80

17:28:34 £65.00 £28.80 £5,185.00 £20.60

17:29:21 £65.00 £72.00 £5,250.00 £27.60

17:30:01 £65.00 £0.00 £5,315.00 -£37.40

17:30:32 £65.00 £36.00 £5,380.00 -£66.40

17:31:14 £65.00 £108.00 £5,445.00 -£23.40

17:31:55 £65.00 £72.00 £5,510.00 -£16.40

17:32:38 £65.00 £72.00 £5,575.00 -£9.40

17:33:46 £65.00 £108.00 £5,640.00 £33.60

17:34:31 £65.00 £28.80 £5,705.00 -£2.60

17:35:16 £65.00 £450.00 £5,770.00 £382.40

17:36:20 £65.00 £108.00 £5,835.00 £425.40

17:37:05 £65.00 £36.00 £5,900.00 £396.40

17:39:07 £64.00 £0.00 £5,964.00 £332.40

17:40:48 £1.00 £2.00 £5,965.00 £333.40

[mattydfc]

thats giving me the boke looking at that.

[Paris Hilltoon]

Seeing that really shows the swings and the reason you see people playing these machines for hours.

Out of interest, is there a reason that the final bet dropped down to £1 from £64?

[mid-table]

Seeing that really shows the swings and the reason you see people playing these machines for hours.

Out of interest, is there a reason that the final bet dropped down to £1 from £64?

Two reasons;

1) I wanted to see if my £65 bet would have been a winner if I had continued with it.

2) I needed to win £1 to get my 2013 year to date profit / loss past a certain milestone (which I am not willing to share!)

I put £1 on red, and the number was 32, which was a big fat loser on my £65 stake, and a small thin winner on my £1 stake. Always like finishing on a winner.

[Paris Hilltoon]

Can understand both of those reasons and then especially your nondisclosure of profit figure. You're input to this forum is far too good for it to be anything other than profit.