Sons' sorrow

[Jan Vojáček]

42 minutes ago, sonsanorak said:

 

Not sure this comment is right; i know dundee and dunfermline have struggled of late and the expectation is that they'd both be further up their leagues.

 

True, but their form is better than ours over the last 20 games. I suspect if either of those teams went on a run of 2 wins in 20 they would part with their respective managers pronto.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Sonsteam of 08

[sonsanorak]

Dundee have won five games this season including beating us and forfar in cups.

Dunfermline have won six this season including beating us on their flag day, st mirren and cup victories against queens park, arbroath, cowden and brechin.

Dunfermline have only beat us and st mirren this season in the league.

Both clubs bigger than us, better resourced than us and with higher expectations than a scrap in the bottom 3 of the league. Yet both managers are still there

[sonsism]

I want Aitken out but I've resigned myself to the fact that he'll be here until the end of the season.

With all the doom and gloom including the shite with the stadium I just wish there was something to get even moderately excited about - can we not get Chissy or Kevin Nicoll back for a bit?

As I've said in previous posts, we all knew there would come a season where we would be relegated. Don't think myself or anyone pictured it being this depressing mind you.

[Silverton End]

I really fear for the future of The Sons if this new stadium idea really goes ahead.

Bit of an obvious statement that, but such is the apathy surrounding all things DFC just now, I mean, from an area of between 30-50,000 populace, we cannot even muster 1,000 home fans, it's tragic tbh. Nobody I've spoken to fancies watching football out there at Dalmoak, crap transport links, no boozers, takeaways or shops nearby, like we have just now - Stags Head, Rock BC etc, etc. Dalreoch train station is a long walk make no mistake.

It really is frustrating, is all I'm thinking, and worrying, very worrying for a Club like ours, with a rapidly dwindling home support.

 

[BallochSonsFan]

I know the thread is called "Sons Sorrow" but are we not getting a bit ahead of ourselves here?

The football is garbage to watch. The post match interviews with the manager are predictable. We're definitely at risk of going down this season, much the same as every other season for the past 5. All of that is true...

But if the league ended tomorrow we'd be safe. Admittedly we've only played about a third of the season but we're sitting in 8th position. There seems to be an assumption that St Mirren and Dunfermline will get better, that we'll get worse and that we'll be relegated by default. It's not pretty and it's not enjoyable but with St Mirren so poor we have every chance of avoiding automatic relegation and if Dunfermline don't pick up then 8th, and division safety, is a genuine possibility. It's not a nice thought that we may well be safe but only because St Mirren are even more pish than we are, but its the reality of where we are as a club. The financial consequences of going down would be serious and whilst we may have more freedom to play attacking football in League One, there would absolutely be a financial hit that we'd need to address. If money is tight now with a threadbare squad then relegation doesnt offer us the option of slashing wages further whilst avoiding another drop in quality.

It's a long shot for us this year but I won't accept relegation until we're actually down. 

Edited November 15, 2016 by BallochSonsFan

[O'Kelly Isley III]

22 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

I know the thread is called "Sons Sorrow" but are we not getting a bit ahead of ourselves here?

The football is garbage to watch. The post match interviews with the manager are predictable. We're definitely at risk of going down this season, much the same as every other season for the past 5. All of that is true...

But if the league ended tomorrow we'd be safe. Admittedly we've only played about a third of the season but we're sitting in 8th position. There seems to be an assumption that St Mirren and Dunfermline will get better, that we'll get worse and that we'll be relegated by default. It's not pretty and it's not enjoyable but with St Mirren so poor we have every chance of avoiding automatic relegation and if Dunfermline don't pick up then 8th, and division safety, is a genuine possibility. It's not a nice thought that we may well be safe but only because St Mirren are even more pish than we are, but its the reality of where we are as a club. The financial consequences of going down would be serious and whilst we may have more freedom to play attacking football in League One, there would absolutely be a financial hit that we'd need to address. If money is tight now with a threadbare squad then relegation doesnt offer us the option of slashing wages further whilst avoiding another drop in quality.

It's a long shot for us this year but I won't accept relegation until we're actually down. 

If it's a continuation of what we're watching week on week, then I'd probably take it right now TBH.

[cedrick1]

Now then this year is bad to watch. 

Is it worse than last year . In my opinion no .

is it worse than season 1 in championship pre Murray , no

Will we go down probably possibly maybe. 

We all just wish we would give it more of a go, especially when other teams are not that great . 

[Jan Vojáček]

33 minutes ago, cedrick1 said:

Now then this year is bad to watch. 

Is it worse than last year . In my opinion no .

is it worse than season 1 in championship pre Murray , no

Will we go down probably possibly maybe. 

We all just wish we would give it more of a go, especially when other teams are not that great . 

Are we counting all of last season in 'last year'? If so then yes, it's far worse. Last year was poor, but you still had the hope of a Hibs/St Mirren/Alloa/QOS performance every once in a while. I don't even have that.

'Season 1 in the Championship' saw Adamson sacked in October. We weren't actually that bad to watch under him, we were just hilariously poor at the back - guys like Ross Forsyth, James Creaney etc clearly weren't up to this level. Murray came in about this time of the year, but didn't get a league game until December with all the snow, so it's difficult to compare a 3 month spell when we just came up with where we are now. The football was alright, the results appalling - so I'll give you that!

I doubt you'll find anybody who disagrees with your final line. And that's why it's so poor to watch for me. Early on last season Stevie went into every game like he wanted to win it, there was a real arrogance about the team. This season we shuffle up, try not to anger anybody and quietly shuffle out.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

There's a fair bit of denial going on here, and clinging to the fact he we are currently ahead of Dunfermline and St Mirren ignores the fact that there is a long, long way for them to make up the gap and then disappear into the distance, never all current footballing evidence suggesting that we are heading pretty soon for making up the numbers.

Now if that's defeatist then it's also realistic, and short of an infusion of players in January I don't really give us much of a chance of avoiding the drop.  So be it, but let's give the 'this is a must win', 'we need to be beating Team A, B or C' stuff a rest, as facts will intrude soon enough.  Sad to say, there is not much of a positive case to be made for us right now.

 

I don't think there's any denial. I've not seen many posters fail to acknowledge the fact performances have been woeful and they don't look like improving. I think you'd be hard pushed to find anyone who thinks we'll survive but there's no denying there's a bit of hysteria starting to creep in.

To suggest demonstrations and chants to call for the manager's head is ludicrous. At this current point in time we are 8th, that's the manager's remit. Of course it is likely that will change but we can't exactly sack a guy who has us in that position. Assuming St Mirren and Dunfermline will improve is total guesswork at this stage. I fully agree that it's very likely but I also thought that about Morton when they went down.

Lets not go down the route of hounding the players and management staff, it wont help a thing, it wont accelerate a sacking and if anything it will lead to even more confidence sapped, turgid shite.

[pleslie99]

Ok so we can't afford to sack Stevie. Worst case scenario that we all fear is relegation. If we go down we all know the financial implications, I would assume not many of the current squad would sign up for next season if they get offers elsewhere. (Maybe mccallum would get game time and come good tho!)
We are already competing and in some ways struggling to compete with teams in league 1 for players. Stranraer, livi, airdrie, Peterhead and Alloa all arguably pay more than us, if we went down it may be a while before we came back up!

[optimistic]

Apparently it's the same distance from Dumbarton east station to the rock as it is from dalreoch to our new proposed stadium.

Football under Adamson was much better, there were plenty debates as to whether Adamson should be replaced, we lacked goals yes, but remember he brought some quality to the team with the likes of Turner, and no doubt plenty others who played under Murray, (so8).

Football under Murray was excellent for the most part, fast flowing, attacking, and thoroughly entertaining, even if we did lose some, but we did have a few lofty league positions.although last 6 months was turgid, but he'd probably lost the dressing room by then.

Our football under aitken has never been good to watch, he never sets us up right. When winning, we never go for the jugular, when losing, he has no clue as to how to change it, and much too loyal to too many in the team. He made a mistake with brown, now it looks like he's doing the same with Stevenson.

I'm not saying we should definitely have demonstrations or chants, it definitely does the players no good, but the club need to realize, and I'm sure they probably do, that we, the fans are not happy, and action of some sort needs to be taken, if not, we will go down with a whimper.

Who can start a poll on here, that would show us and the club our opinions?

[Jan Vojáček]

By far Alan Adamson’s strongest attribute was his recruitment. As soon as he arrived he brought in Pat Walker and signed Mark Gilhaney - who had been playing as a trialist, both of whom played a massive role in us staying up that year. As well as that he turned Jon McShane into a different player, and had us playing with real confidence.  

Then in his first summer he brought in Scott Agnew, Bryan Prunty, Kevin Nicol, Alan Lithgow and Jamie Ewings - all of whom went on to serve the club very well. On top of that he brought in Craig Dargo later on who, albeit frustrating, played a massive role in getting us here. In his first season up he signed up Chris Turner - the best midfielder in the league in his prime - Jim Lister -  just about undefendable at the time as well as Nicky Devlin on loan (and what a player he is now), Andy Graham and Garry Fleming...

There was some dross along the way to be fair; Ryan Borris (2nd time around), Graeme Ramage, Phil Johnston, Ross Forsyth, Adam Monaghan and the bizarre signing of Arlan Kadima Mptata. However it was as good a list of signings as I can remember from any manager.

Anyway, he was out of his depth at this level. Tactically he struggled and we couldn’t defend set-pieces. In saying that I’ll be forever grateful to him for the playoffs, the excellent football in 11/12 and bringing in guys like Aggy, Prunts, CT and Gaz.

[Nowhereman]

10 hours ago, Silverton End said:

I really fear for the future of The Sons if this new stadium idea really goes ahead.

Bit of an obvious statement that, but such is the apathy surrounding all things DFC just now, I mean, from an area of between 30-50,000 populace, we cannot even muster 1,000 home fans, it's tragic tbh. Nobody I've spoken to fancies watching football out there at Dalmoak, crap transport links, no boozers, takeaways or shops nearby, like we have just now - Stags Head, Rock BC etc, etc. Dalreoch train station is a long walk make no mistake.

It really is frustrating, is all I'm thinking, and worrying, very worrying for a Club like ours, with a rapidly dwindling home support.

 

Dalreoch station is about the same distance to the new site as Dumbarton East is to the Rock. Access for cars to the new site would be better than the current vehicle access to the Rock given that it would be just off the A82. We would have to make sure that there was a bar in the ground that home and away fans could get in to and that would be an improvement on the Rock. Downside is for fans who walk to the ground but I'm not sure that there are that many who do that. I walk and once you get to Glasgow Road on the way out there are very few on foot.

[The Moonster]

27 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

Dalreoch station is about the same distance to the new site as Dumbarton East is to the Rock. Access for cars to the new site would be better than the current vehicle access to the Rock given that it would be just off the A82. We would have to make sure that there was a bar in the ground that home and away fans could get in to and that would be an improvement on the Rock. Downside is for fans who walk to the ground but I'm not sure that there are that many who do that. I walk and once you get to Glasgow Road on the way out there are very few on foot.

Access might be fine but on viewing those plans on Saturday I fail to see how there isn't absolute chaos on leaving the ground.  There will be one way out for every car and that leads them to the Renton Road, I can easily see a back up of traffic leading back to the A82, especially if we were renting out our training pitches at the same time as a game. Walking from Dalreoch looks honking. There was nothing in the plans about a walkway despite promises the last time there would be which means your choices are the cycle path or walking the gauntlet along the crumbling pavement on the Renton Road. There's an assumption that the cycle path will be upgraded but I think that looks far from ideal for fans to walk to the ground, whether there are many of us walking or not shouldn't really come into it.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Dalreoch station is about the same distance to the new site as Dumbarton East is to the Rock. Access for cars to the new site would be better than the current vehicle access to the Rock given that it would be just off the A82. We would have to make sure that there was a bar in the ground that home and away fans could get in to and that would be an improvement on the Rock. Downside is for fans who walk to the ground but I'm not sure that there are that many who do that. I walk and once you get to Glasgow Road on the way out there are very few on foot.

I see plenty of fans walking to and from the ground. Hundreds in fact.

All that's being discussed here is the distance and not the fact that the only current option at the new site is along a pitch black cycle path. I assume there must be plans to add lighting to this? I assume we will cover the cost of installing said lighting and footing the leccy bill?

I would have asked Ian Wilson on Saturday but he was through indulging in free food and wine, like a big Tory b*****d.

[Frank Quitely]

11 hours ago, Silverton End said:

I really fear for the future of The Sons if this new stadium idea really goes ahead.

Bit of an obvious statement that, but such is the apathy surrounding all things DFC just now, I mean, from an area of between 30-50,000 populace, we cannot even muster 1,000 home fans, it's tragic tbh. Nobody I've spoken to fancies watching football out there at Dalmoak, crap transport links, no boozers, takeaways or shops nearby, like we have just now - Stags Head, Rock BC etc, etc. Dalreoch train station is a long walk make no mistake.

It really is frustrating, is all I'm thinking, and worrying, very worrying for a Club like ours, with a rapidly dwindling home support.

 

That apathy is for any number of reasons, too many to go into here, but you are absolutely correct to identify it.  And you know what, it will only ever be addressed by a complete change of ownership and administration of the football club and crucially, its future relationship with the Dumbarton area public.

It really now IS that fundamental, and any talk of stadium developments at a time when the club is practically dying before our eyes is akin to smearing lipstick on a corpse.  Maybe the combination of a relegation and refusal of planning permission will act like holding a cross in bright sunshine in Brabco's face, and get them tae f***. 

[aftershocker]

13 minutes ago, Frank Quitely said:

That apathy is for any number of reasons, too many to go into here, but you are absolutely correct to identify it.  And you know what, it will only ever be addressed by a complete change of ownership and administration of the football club and crucially, its future relationship with the Dumbarton area public.

It really now IS that fundamental, and any talk of stadium developments at a time when the club is practically dying before our eyes is akin to smearing lipstick on a corpse.  Maybe the combination of a relegation and refusal of planning permission will act like holding a cross in bright sunshine in Brabco's face, and get them tae f***. 

really????

we are sitting 8th in the toughest championship we've been in....we are competitive in most of the games....we are not getting pumped every week which tends to happen to relegation fodder, and our owners are looking at getting us a brand new shiny stadium....this doesn't sound to me like a club that's dying

is the football crap a lot of the time? yes it is...that is quite clear, but all the talk of Aitken being naïve is probably naïve in itself....Aitken has clearly been given the task of keeping us up....I would suspect he's reviewed his options, and concluded being hard to beat (and only 2 games where we have lost by more than a single goal would agree with this) is more important than playing attractive football, but ultimately getting beaten by better teams

[Jan Vojáček]

3 minutes ago, aftershocker said:

really????

we are sitting 8th in the toughest championship we've been in....we are competitive in most of the games....we are not getting pumped every week which tends to happen to relegation fodder, and our owners are looking at getting us a brand new shiny stadium....this doesn't sound to me like a club that's dying

is the football crap a lot of the time? yes it is...that is quite clear, but all the talk of Aitken being naïve is probably naïve in itself....Aitken has clearly been given the task of keeping us up....I would suspect he's reviewed his options, and concluded being hard to beat (and only 2 games where we have lost by more than a single goal would agree with this) is more important than playing attractive football, but ultimately getting beaten by better teams

I may be wrong, but I think Frank’s comment was more in relation to matters off the field than the abject performances on it. 

[aftershocker]

3 minutes ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

I may be wrong, but I think Frank’s comment was more in relation to matters off the field than the abject performances on it. 

I'm still not sure how he concludes that the club is dying though

[Jan Vojáček]

Just now, aftershocker said:

I'm still not sure how he concludes that the club is dying though

Dwindling home supports, talk of reduced budgets, owners who are only in it for the land. Dying may be a bit far, but the club does look to have some fairly big health issues.