Sons' sorrow

[Frank Quitely]

20 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

Will they? 

There are only two possible scenarios...

1. Stevie Farrell resigns

2. Stevie Farrell remains.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BallochSonsFan]

2 hours ago, FifeSons said:

Just in time for L2 football.

I refuse to believe we don’t have access to any lines of credit that we could use to pay him off now, rather than end of the season. If it’s down to money, then the board are being very short sighted to not consider the loss of revenue by being in L2 next season.

Also, if he hadn’t lost the dressing room already, he certainly will have done after that interview 

 

 

We don't have access to lines of credit. We have a relatively small overdraft. Nob mainstream bank is lending Dumbarton FC money. Why won't people believe that we're skint? Every season we get people on here posting that we must be able to offer a decent enough budget or we must be able to pay a failing manager off. We're skint. Not to the point where we're at risk of going out of business, but certainly to a degree that limits what we can do.

[BallochSonsFan]

2 hours ago, Sweet Pete said:

You won't buy a season ticket next season if Dumbarton don't sack Farrell just now?

You know that they will remove him in the close season, right?

I wouldn't bet on it.

If Farrell wants to stay then he'll say that he took Stranraer to the L2 play-offs and that its an indication that he can get us promoted back to L1 at the first time of asking. If he doesnt fancy it then he'll walk. Either way, I wouldn't be relying on the board sacking him. They may well sack him - but I wouldn't be banking on them doing so.

Edited March 20, 2022 by BallochSonsFan

[sonsism]

3 hours ago, Sweet Pete said:

You won't buy a season ticket next season if Dumbarton don't sack Farrell just now?

You know that they will remove him in the close season, right?

When the damage likely is already done and we’re a league 2 club.

And as others have said, not a given we actually do get rid of him in that period either.

[Guest]

Just as an aside folks, but of what I saw yesterday, that pitch has got to be having a huge impact on your results is it not?

Playing on that for 18 games a season has got to be an absolute torture for your players……it’s not one of those quirky unique things about a ground that gives a home team an advantage. It just means every home game is an absolute lottery…….that’s not a pitch that you get used to playing on.

Just going through your results, and out of 15 home games, you have won 2, and drawn 4. Not a surprise really. I would think that opposition teams having to play on it twice is plenty plenty.

You have 10 home points, and 16 away points which I think, tells its own story. Doubtless there will be other factors at play, but for me, playing on a flat track would have you on more than 10 points at home.

I don’t really know what support your groundsman gets, but whatever it is, it’s costing you dearly.

 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

8 hours ago, Duncan Freemason said:

Just as an aside folks, but of what I saw yesterday, that pitch has got to be having a huge impact on your results is it not?

Playing on that for 18 games a season has got to be an absolute torture for your players……it’s not one of those quirky unique things about a ground that gives a home team an advantage. It just means every home game is an absolute lottery…….that’s not a pitch that you get used to playing on.

Just going through your results, and out of 15 home games, you have won 2, and drawn 4. Not a surprise really. I would think that opposition teams having to play on it twice is plenty plenty.

You have 10 home points, and 16 away points which I think, tells its own story. Doubtless there will be other factors at play, but for me, playing on a flat track would have you on more than 10 points at home.

I don’t really know what support your groundsman gets, but whatever it is, it’s costing you dearly.

 

Your points are well made but the first point is that it's not only 18 games per season as a commercial decision was made for Rangers 'B' to also host their home games at The Rock.  The result has been the pitch in its worst condition since the stadium opened, and it's no coincidence that the other worst surface in Scotland is Firhill.

The second factor was the unfortunate parting of the ways between the club and the previous groundsman who was both very competent and very local as he stayed literally up the road.  I mean no criticism of his replacement but I believe he stays a fair distance away, hardly ideal with a problematic pitch.  So here we are, poor decisions and bad outcomes.

The jury is though on the actual effect on home results.  There has been only one direct consequence of the park's condition and that was Alloa's recent winner.  Ironically they played some great football that day.  The surface certainly isn't conducive to playing nice football but that is probably more of a handicap to our visitors than ourselves, although results certainly suggest otherwise.  The better team normally wins.

Edited March 21, 2022 by O'Kelly Isley III

[The Moonster]

13 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:

 

We don't have access to lines of credit. We have a relatively small overdraft. Nob mainstream bank is lending Dumbarton FC money. Why won't people believe that we're skint? Every season we get people on here posting that we must be able to offer a decent enough budget or we must be able to pay a failing manager off. We're skint. Not to the point where we're at risk of going out of business, but certainly to a degree that limits what we can do.

If the board can't afford to pay off managers who are out of their depth maybe they shouldn't fling 2 year deals about. Sorry but if the options are Farrel fucks off on his own or we stick with him until his contract is up then this board are even more incompetent than I originally thought. 

[cameron2000]

I didnt post yesterday cause I was fed up. Watching us is crap, it's the same dross week in week out and will continue until the end of the season at least. What worries me more is we are grim to watch now, we were grim to watch under Duffy (albeit some would argue effective at grinding games out) and we were grim to watch at the end of Aitken's reign. We are not exaclty attracting new fans or even existing ones. I know plenty who aren't bothering with the rest of the season its so bad! 
Now I'm the 1st one to agree there are more ways to skin a cat, playing barcelona-esque football won't work for all teams, and it's actually refreshing to see teams mix it up a bit. However, we are playing crap and not getting results which is a bad mix. At least if we were getting results we couldn't argue about how we got them. 
Whoever is in the door next needs to excite the fans and get bums on seats, whether that's by winning (most effective) or at least giving it a right good go! We are going down with a whimper this season, there is zero fight from any of them. We will be looking at a trapdoor out of the leagues so we can't afford to continue losing games AND losing punters. 
The board need to get their act together, they are as much to blame as anyone else for the mess we are in. We will have a player of the year night coming up soon, who the hell is gonna win that? I wouldn't give it to anyone. Big Josh would be my vote and he's played 3 games! That's how bad its been! 
 

I’d be voting for Carlo Pignateillo.

[cameron2000]

Just as an aside folks, but of what I saw yesterday, that pitch has got to be having a huge impact on your results is it not?
Playing on that for 18 games a season has got to be an absolute torture for your players……it’s not one of those quirky unique things about a ground that gives a home team an advantage. It just means every home game is an absolute lottery…….that’s not a pitch that you get used to playing on.
Just going through your results, and out of 15 home games, you have won 2, and drawn 4. Not a surprise really. I would think that opposition teams having to play on it twice is plenty plenty.
You have 10 home points, and 16 away points which I think, tells its own story. Doubtless there will be other factors at play, but for me, playing on a flat track would have you on more than 10 points at home.
I don’t really know what support your groundsman gets, but whatever it is, it’s costing you dearly.
 

In some situations the pitch has hampered us and even cost us points but, on Saturday the pitch was better standard than the players we put out deserved. That back 4 at the weekend would’ve conceded more than 2 on a decent pitch.

[Jan Vojáček]

6 minutes ago, cameron2000 said:

I’d be voting for Carlo Pignateillo.

I'd agree.

Carlo, Ross MacLean and Conner Duthie deserve pass marks for their efforts this season. If Paul Paton had played more than he would too imo.

It's very unusual to have a season where nobody really stands out though. Even last year it was evident that Morgyn Neill and Ryan McGeever were our two players deserving of an award. But nobody has really even reached the levels they did last year.

Edit: A large part of that is down to our lack of a settled team too. It's nearly April and we still don't know what our strongest side is. I can't ever remember a season like this.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Jan Vojáček

[The Moonster]

22 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

I'd agree.

Carlo, Ross MacLean and Conner Duthie deserve pass marks for their efforts this season. If Paul Paton had played more than he would too imo.

It's very unusual to have a season where nobody really stands out though. Even last year it was evident that Morgyn Neill and Ryan McGeever were our two players deserving of an award. But nobody has really even reached the levels they did last year.

Edit: A large part of that is down to our lack of a settled team too. It's nearly April and we still don't know what our strongest side is. I can't ever remember a season like this.

Not even just our strongest side, we've no idea what formation to play each week. It's embarrassing and Faz must be waking up every Monday wondering why his phone hasn't yet gone. 

[cameron2000]

Not even just our strongest side, we've no idea what formation to play each week. It's embarrassing and Faz must be waking up every Monday wondering why his phone hasn't yet gone. 

Yeah, switching a completely untested team shape for East fife away was worthy of the sack alone. How many successful teams in football regularly change formations? Very few. They all have an identity and just make very slight adjustments for different situations and teams.

[FifeSons]

I see one of Farrell’s relatives piped up in the comments on Twitter.

No announcement made on him going, so what we already knew is now confirmed. 

If he’s hoping publicly calling out the players will get some kind of a reaction of Saturday, it’s a horrendous bit of man-management.

 

[BallochSonsFan]

2 hours ago, The Moonster said:

If the board can't afford to pay off managers who are out of their depth maybe they shouldn't fling 2 year deals about. Sorry but if the options are Farrel fucks off on his own or we stick with him until his contract is up then this board are even more incompetent than I originally thought. 

Thats the reality of things at Dumbarton.

- Lack of money.

- Board trying to keep the club going.

- Owners who couldn't care less how things are going on the pitch

We're skint. We don't have an abundance of football contacts at board level. We get absolutely no help from the owners. We need answers about issues such as the non-payment of sponsorship money. If that money hasn't been paid and we've got a £35k hole in the budget to fill then how do we afford to pay off Farrell? Folk need to accept that we live hand to mouth and that it's not as easy as simply sacking the manager and bringing somebody else in. 

[FifeSons]

2 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Thats the reality of things at Dumbarton.

- Lack of money.

- Board trying to keep the club going.

- Owners who couldn't care less how things are going on the pitch

We're skint. We don't have an abundance of football contacts at board level. We get absolutely no help from the owners. We need answers about issues such as the non-payment of sponsorship money. If that money hasn't been paid and we've got a £35k hole in the budget to fill then how do we afford to pay off Farrell? Folk need to accept that we live hand to mouth and that it's not as easy as simply sacking the manager and bringing somebody else in. 

So are we to take it the only reason Farrell  hasn’t gone is money?

[BallochSonsFan]

Just now, FifeSons said:

So are we to take it the only reason Farrell  hasn’t gone is money?

For me it's a combination of 3 things:

1. It would cost too much to get shot of him.

2. Even if we did get shot of him, we're not particularly blessed with contacts within football for a quick appointment and joining a sinking ship isnt an easy sell to a prospective new manager.

3. Unless Farrell walks for free, we'd be looking at an unemployed replacement as the lack of money would hinder our options of appointing somebody who was already at another club.

Easiest thing in the world for fans to demand a manager gets the sack. Not without good cause - results since about November time have been absolutely terrible and that's now 4 and a half months that we've been on the slide with few signs of improvements. But the idea of sacking Farrell is far easier than the practicalities of sacking Farrell and appointing somebody else. There are financial considerations and practical considerations. The club is in a very difficult position because of the financial and practical realities in which it's operating.

[The Moonster]

17 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Thats the reality of things at Dumbarton.

- Lack of money.

- Board trying to keep the club going.

- Owners who couldn't care less how things are going on the pitch

We're skint. We don't have an abundance of football contacts at board level. We get absolutely no help from the owners. We need answers about issues such as the non-payment of sponsorship money. If that money hasn't been paid and we've got a £35k hole in the budget to fill then how do we afford to pay off Farrell? Folk need to accept that we live hand to mouth and that it's not as easy as simply sacking the manager and bringing somebody else in. 

I suppose the board need to weigh up the cost of sacking Farrell now against the cost of League 2 (or worse) for a few seasons. I accept it's not helped by our owners negating on their sponsorship commitments but it's already been established the board knocked back a well known guaranteed sponsorship that comes with added community benefits, so the board have themselves to blame there. And again if living is so hand to mouth then throwing our management team 2 year deals with no realistic get out clause, and then allowing said management to throw 2 year deals at players is a stupid way to run the club. I know we were all quite happy with the 2 years to allow him to build something but the board need to consider all outcomes when negotiating those deals. If we've left ourselves in a situation where accepting relegation under a failing manager is our only outcome then blame lies squarely with the board, regardless of outside factors with the owners wanting to move us (which apparently our current board members are supportive of). 

[FifeSons]

2 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

For me it's a combination of 3 things:

1. It would cost too much to get shot of him.

2. Even if we did get shot of him, we're not particularly blessed with contacts within football for a quick appointment and joining a sinking ship isnt an easy sell to a prospective new manager.

3. Unless Farrell walks for free, we'd be looking at an unemployed replacement as the lack of money would hinder our options of appointing somebody who was already at another club.

Easiest thing in the world for fans to demand a manager gets the sack. Not without good cause - results since about November time have been absolutely terrible and that's now 4 and a half months that we've been on the slide with few signs of improvements. But the idea of sacking Farrell is far easier than the practicalities of sacking Farrell and appointing somebody else. There are financial considerations and practical considerations. The club is in a very difficult position because of the financial and practical realities in which it's operating.

I reckon that by the time they’d started to consider it (which surely they must have at least done) they felt it was too late in the season and didn’t know whether to stick or twist.

I remember when Paul Martin was in charge, I was so young and naive that I always believed he’d keep us up until relegation was confirmed. It must have seemed to obvious to everyone else that we were doomed.

I’m not sure we’ll even take another point this season.

[FifeSons]

6 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I suppose the board need to weigh up the cost of sacking Farrell now against the cost of League 2 (or worse) for a few seasons. I accept it's not helped by our owners negating on their sponsorship commitments but it's already been established the board knocked back a well known guaranteed sponsorship that comes with added community benefits, so the board have themselves to blame there. And again if living is so hand to mouth then throwing our management team 2 year deals with no realistic get out clause, and then allowing said management to throw 2 year deals at players is a stupid way to run the club. I know we were all quite happy with the 2 years to allow him to build something but the board need to consider all outcomes when negotiating those deals. If we've left ourselves in a situation where accepting relegation under a failing manager is our only outcome then blame lies squarely with the board, regardless of outside factors with the owners wanting to move us (which apparently our current board members are supportive of). 

Didn’t we let him hand out an 18 month contract to somebody in January (at the peak of our terrible form), too?

[BallochSonsFan]

Just now, The Moonster said:

I suppose the board need to weigh up the cost of sacking Farrell now against the cost of League 2 (or worse) for a few seasons. I accept it's not helped by our owners negating on their sponsorship commitments but it's already been established the board knocked back a well known guaranteed sponsorship that comes with added community benefits, so the board have themselves to blame there. And again if living is so hand to mouth then throwing our management team 2 year deals with no realistic get out clause, and then allowing said management to throw 2 year deals at players is a stupid way to run the club. I know we were all quite happy with the 2 years to allow him to build something but the board need to consider all outcomes when negotiating those deals. If we've left ourselves in a situation where accepting relegation under a failing manager is our only outcome then blame lies squarely with the board, regardless of outside factors with the owners wanting to move us (which apparently our current board members are supportive of). 

They do. And a consideration they'll be making is whether or not sacking Farrell will make any difference?

Who would you want them to appoint? Serious question and I'm not having a go. It's easy to say that we should sack Farrell, but who do we appoint? It's an easier decision in December/January than it is in March when the window has closed and you're left with a small choice of potential appointments and a very limited time in which to recruit.

We need to be realistic. We'll get to the end of the season and whatever happens will happen. Either we'll stay up or we'll go down. Either way I'd be expecting the board to have a conversation about Farrell's future the day after we know what league we'll be playing in next season. Staying up shouldn't give Farrell any guarantees regarding next season. It's still a financial pressure too. But it's easier to budget for replacing Farrell and to actually recruit him over the summer than it is to make the decision now.