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9 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

I've cleared the quote to keep the post clean.

To answer your various points:

1. Why does the club have no money?

It costs us to maintain the pitch. It costs us for basic ground maintenance. It costs us for stewarding, It costs us to run floodlights. We've got wages to pay. We've got travel costs to away games. Those are the brutal facts. There's no mystery. Some of the clubs who are leapfrogging us have owners who are willing to throw money at the club. Cove do. Kelty do. Queens Park do, and also have the benefit of having sold Hampden to the SFA. 

 

 

3. Volunteering opportunities.

You say that you used to sell 50/50s and programmes. You certainly havent done it in the past 6 years. The trust has repeatedly asked for people to help out during that time. I spent 2 years flat out begging people to get involved with 50/50 and I only became involved with running it because the trust spent a full season asking for people to help out before Brian and David stepped down from their duties. Every summer the trust asks for fans to come along and help out around the ground to get it ready for hosting matches. Every single summer. It's the same people who turn up and give up their time year after year. If you genuinely want to get involved then get in touch with the trust and ask them what they need help with? Or reply to one of the numerous requests for help that the trust has made over the past 6 or 7 years. 

 

 

The reality is that we're a lower league football team who are based in an area of relative poverty. 

So….

1. Why does the club have no money, 

for years the answer of reduced gates etc has been the main argument for our lack in revenue. However you also mention shop sales and pitch maintenance. 
 

My question would be this…apart from offering up tickets to youth teams to attend where are we advertising next home games etc? Better discounted parent and child tickets? For as long as I remember when I was a youngster every shop, factory, news outlet the lot had a poster on it around the town with our next home games and the cost etc? Surely this is extremely helpful of catching the eye of a mum or dad who doesn’t have any plans to keep their 5/6/7/8 yr old football crazed son or daughter busy on that given Saturday? Do you put out appeals then for also for ball boys and girls ? Can we engage through the community advertiser better? 
 

The club shop for me was always in the supporters bar, easy access to the shop for kits for their son or daughter or their grandchildren etc? None of this waiting months to order via a 3rd party online seller. It’s more hassle than it’s worth. 
 

The pitch, the age old debate about the pitch. Has it ever truly been considered how much benefit a grass pitch is compared to an artificial? Because from what you have just said it’s running costs that kill us? 
so does investment in an artificial surface benefit us? 
no need to pay for training facilities ? Undercut council pitch rates and gain more income through the week for some of the teams we are trying to establish links with etc? Has all of this been properly worked out ? 
 

Do rangers contribute to the maintenance costs ? Or are they still skint too? 
 

3. Volunteering. 
 

No it hasn’t been in the last 5/6 years as I said it was when I was younger and had finished being a ball boy. I wouldn’t be able to commit to selling 50/50s or being at the ground for 1 because making kick off is often dependent on a flier from work and as I reached 17 that was the way of it. I could no longer give up that hour or so extra on a Saturday before it. 
 

When I was asked to do it when I was younger someone from the trust table at the time asked me whilst I sat with my dad and uncle. Listed son do u want to sell 50/50s today. You’ll earn some pocket money. And that was me? When was the last time someone walked round the community suite before the game and asked any younger ones if they fancied that? 
 

I’d like to add that I have helped in pre season in the past and was one of the first also to raise my hand to help on match days etc when we needed frost covered lifted or laid. 
 

Finally….we might live in an area of poverty but you also said yourself round about us are three/ four massive companies…so when you compare that to our Angus counterparts that may have wealthier owners they still get people in the door paying gate prices similar to ours and we are better off area in the country than they are. 
 

 

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Posters around town don't translate to increased fan attendance. The club tried various ticket offers when Alan Findlay was there. Uptake was really poor. Uptake of the free under 16 season ticket wasn't huge either. It was largely existing fans. You can't force people along to Dumbarton games and you can only discount tickets so much. If cutting the cost of a Dumbarton home game was the deciding factor in bringing in more fans then the club would almost certainly do it. But any cost reduction has to result in an increase in fans. You could cut the cost of a home game by £5. You'd need to attract 1 new fan for every 3 existing ones just to break even.  So for a home crowd of 450 fans, cutting the cost of entry by a fiver would lose the club money at anything less than an extra 150 supporters. And that doesnt address the general cost of running a football club. Pitches cost money to maintain. God knows our previous groundskeeper is on here often enough telling us how poor his budget was and how it was difficult for him to maintain a pitch on the money he was given. If we don't earn it then we can't spend it. Same goes for any other cost the club incurs.

You've suggested bringing in money/saving on maintenance by installing an artificial surface. A good one will set you back a minimum of £500,000. And it needs to be maintained. Replaced eventually too. We don't have £500,000 sitting around to install a 3g pitch.

Aggreko have no interest in providing sponsorship to Dumbarton. Neither do Pernod Ricard. Those companies have been contacted. Many times. They simply don't want to give us money. 

You used to volunteer. But other things got in the way and you can't commit to being at the ground early to help out. It's exactly the same for the trust board. You're asking what the trust are doing. You're asking for stand alone member meetings to discuss something (but still not actually being clear on what you want to discuss). The trust board are volunteers. They're balancing work commitments, personal commitments and trust activity. The reason you can't turn up at 1:30 on a Saturday afternoon to help out? Same reason that it might take the trust board a little bit longer to send out the latest communication, or why things might take a little bit longer to happen.

 

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37 minutes ago, DobbiesAgent said:

Also…how come no one has raised any questions with our Norwegian owner about his statements of intent? His plan of action? He was big Enough and ballsy enough to mention full time football? 

An interesting point, and you'll have to take my word on what follows.  Myself and two others have engaged with Henning Kristoffersen on two separate on Zoom calls totalling just short of two hours in duration.  As regards questions, in the second call in particular I raised so many with him to the extent that he claimed he 'felt like he was in a US Senate hearing'.  

Direct answers however were in very short supply as is anything remotely resembling a business plan for the club's future.  Nor any coherent explanation of all the traffic we have been monitoring on Companies House and how a parcel of land which was owned by DFC is now mortgaged to a guy based in Wales.  What was not in short supply hiowever was windy rhetoric and grand statements, some of which were frankly fantastical.

But he is not the main man, that is the majority shareholder, and based on my experience and opinion neither he or Mr Kristoffersen are people capable of either taking this club forward or even taking it to the Renton Road, which is their stated intention.  And for what it's worth I believe that has also been the opinion of recent and current DFC Boards of Directors and Chairmen but they have been unwilling or unable to ask these direct questions.

I hope that answers your question.

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25 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

An interesting point, and you'll have to take my word on what follows.  Myself and two others have engaged with Henning Kristoffersen on two separate on Zoom calls totalling just short of two hours in duration.  As regards questions, in the second call in particular I raised so many with him to the extent that he claimed he 'felt like he was in a US Senate hearing'.  

Direct answers however were in very short supply as is anything remotely resembling a business plan for the club's future.  Nor any coherent explanation of all the traffic we have been monitoring on Companies House and how a parcel of land which was owned by DFC is now mortgaged to a guy based in Wales.  What was not in short supply hiowever was windy rhetoric and grand statements, some of which were frankly fantastical.

But he is not the main man, that is the majority shareholder, and based on my experience and opinion neither he or Mr Kristoffersen are people capable of either taking this club forward or even taking it to the Renton Road, which is their stated intention.  And for what it's worth I believe that has also been the opinion of recent and current DFC Boards of Directors and Chairmen but they have been unwilling or unable to ask these direct questions.

I hope that answers your question.

Thank you for your openness…I appreciate that things are no doubt difficult in dealing with someone who has no footballing related intentions but sees us a profit scheme. 
 

Again thanks for being open, it does shed a little light on my question which is all I could really ask for 👍🏼

Edited by DobbiesAgent
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No point discussing it with me? Don’t come on here throwing around cryptic shite then, just come out with it. How is anyone else supposed to know that? It isn’t public knowledge.
Quite clearly if they aren’t stumping up sponsorship money then that directly impacts his budget. 
Where did you get that information from?


Aye, reign it in and open your eyes Tony Soprano
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1 hour ago, Frank Quitely said:

So, is anybody still believing that the current manager and players can turn this around ?  Based on those highlights it looks a very long shot.  Big call for the board.

Manager needs to try and change something whether that’s personnel or tactics. 
 

players. Someone needs to actually show a bit of leadership and grab their team mates by the scruff of the neck and say that what’s happening at the minute isn’t good enough. 
 

I wouldn’t give Farrell the rest of the window though. Got to give another chap time to recruit at least one or two of his own instead of Faz bringing in his mates. Wylde is an example of that already 

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4 hours ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

Just thought I’d lighten the mood with this…

If you aren’t absolutely pishing yourself by the end of that then you aint human!

We're lucky that it wasn't a cricket score.

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Dumbarton fc have never engaged particularly well with the local community during my time supporting the club. When we played Montrose I was in hospitality and their board / reps consisted of about ten to a dozen who all came in with their sponsored jackets. We had Colin greeting them. They have local business men who are interested in the club. We have never had that. In the seventies we had Robert Robertson, a man ahead of his time in club ownership, and he presided over our most successful period in the twentieth century. However he blew it fairly quickly with his threat to move the club to Cumbernauld and after that there was local hostility rather than engagement. Hugh Fraser started well although not local but his passing left us in limbo. We then had no owner for a number of years which is very relevant. None was interested in buying the club. No local businesses or people who had a local connection wanted to buy the club fairly cheaply despite the fact that we were just out of the premier division. Neil Rankine eventually appeared and again started well with the second division championship in 1992. However it didn’t take long to collapse and we were soon the worst club in the Scottish league while our ground was left to rot. Then it was Brabco and now the Norwegian/architect. The common denominator is that one of them have been local or even had the local area at heart. For clubs like us to thrive you need local input but for some reason we just haven’t had that over the last fifty years

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2 hours ago, Frank Quitely said:

So, is anybody still believing that the current manager and players can turn this around ?  Based on those highlights it looks a very long shot.  Big call for the board.

I’d be very surprised if there are many examples of a manager coming back from a run of form this bad.

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29 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

Dumbarton fc have never engaged particularly well with the local community during my time supporting the club. When we played Montrose I was in hospitality and their board / reps consisted of about ten to a dozen who all came in with their sponsored jackets. We had Colin greeting them. They have local business men who are interested in the club. We have never had that. In the seventies we had Robert Robertson, a man ahead of his time in club ownership, and he presided over our most successful period in the twentieth century. However he blew it fairly quickly with his threat to move the club to Cumbernauld and after that there was local hostility rather than engagement. Hugh Fraser started well although not local but his passing left us in limbo. We then had no owner for a number of years which is very relevant. None was interested in buying the club. No local businesses or people who had a local connection wanted to buy the club fairly cheaply despite the fact that we were just out of the premier division. Neil Rankine eventually appeared and again started well with the second division championship in 1992. However it didn’t take long to collapse and we were soon the worst club in the Scottish league while our ground was left to rot. Then it was Brabco and now the Norwegian/architect. The common denominator is that one of them have been local or even had the local area at heart. For clubs like us to thrive you need local input but for some reason we just haven’t had that over the last fifty years

Have we ever really recovered since Gilbert Lawrie sadly left us 

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29 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

Dumbarton fc have never engaged particularly well with the local community during my time supporting the club. When we played Montrose I was in hospitality and their board / reps consisted of about ten to a dozen who all came in with their sponsored jackets. We had Colin greeting them. They have local business men who are interested in the club. We have never had that. In the seventies we had Robert Robertson, a man ahead of his time in club ownership, and he presided over our most successful period in the twentieth century. However he blew it fairly quickly with his threat to move the club to Cumbernauld and after that there was local hostility rather than engagement. Hugh Fraser started well although not local but his passing left us in limbo. We then had no owner for a number of years which is very relevant. None was interested in buying the club. No local businesses or people who had a local connection wanted to buy the club fairly cheaply despite the fact that we were just out of the premier division. Neil Rankine eventually appeared and again started well with the second division championship in 1992. However it didn’t take long to collapse and we were soon the worst club in the Scottish league while our ground was left to rot. Then it was Brabco and now the Norwegian/architect. The common denominator is that one of them have been local or even had the local area at heart. For clubs like us to thrive you need local input but for some reason we just haven’t had that over the last fifty years

My hazy memory has us doing OK under Robert Dawson and the other local hotelier whose name escapes me? Or was Rankine in the chair by then,and they were just board members? 

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11 minutes ago, DobbiesAgent said:

Have we ever really recovered since Gilbert Lawrie sadly left us 

Gilbert was part of the old school that saw innovation as something Dumbarton didn't do. He was also working for Brabco as much as he was working for the club in terms of the proposed stadium move.

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28 minutes ago, Boghead ranter said:

My hazy memory has us doing OK under Robert Dawson and the other local hotelier whose name escapes me? Or was Rankine in the chair by then,and they were just board members? 

You are thinking of Archie Hagen who owned the Roundabout Inn in Balloch - he and Robert Dawson were Directors in the time of Neil Rankine.

One of the problems we've had is the preponderence of people in the Boardroom with a background in legal circles and the Scotch whisky industry, two environments which are noted for their tradition and conservatism.  The resulting lack of dynamism I mentioned earlier has led to the club being heavily reliant on one major sponsor over a long number of years, and dare I say a rather pompous and aloof approach to anything or anyone outwith the prevailing approval zone.  That may be standard practice in an upmarket golf club, it is unhelpful in a business which ultimately relies on the public for its continued existence.  The time it took for the Trust to establish a (fully paid-up) seat at the table was ridiculous.

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1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Gilbert was part of the old school that saw innovation as something Dumbarton didn't do. He was also working for Brabco as much as he was working for the club in terms of the proposed stadium move.

In Gilbert's defence, during his spell as Chief Executive the club got to the Championship and stayed there. - our most succesful period in nearly 40 years. 

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26 minutes ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

In Gilbert's defence, during his spell as Chief Executive the club got to the Championship and stayed there. - our most succesful period in nearly 40 years. 

I was going to say this…you pick up there on a couple of flaws yet the man seen us arguable through our most successful period where we had the most fans and a far better atmosphere! 

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