Sons' sorrow

[Nowhereman]

Dumbarton fc have never engaged particularly well with the local community during my time supporting the club. When we played Montrose I was in hospitality and their board / reps consisted of about ten to a dozen who all came in with their sponsored jackets. We had Colin greeting them. They have local business men who are interested in the club. We have never had that. In the seventies we had Robert Robertson, a man ahead of his time in club ownership, and he presided over our most successful period in the twentieth century. However he blew it fairly quickly with his threat to move the club to Cumbernauld and after that there was local hostility rather than engagement. Hugh Fraser started well although not local but his passing left us in limbo. We then had no owner for a number of years which is very relevant. None was interested in buying the club. No local businesses or people who had a local connection wanted to buy the club fairly cheaply despite the fact that we were just out of the premier division. Neil Rankine eventually appeared and again started well with the second division championship in 1992. However it didn’t take long to collapse and we were soon the worst club in the Scottish league while our ground was left to rot. Then it was Brabco and now the Norwegian/architect. The common denominator is that one of them have been local or even had the local area at heart. For clubs like us to thrive you need local input but for some reason we just haven’t had that over the last fifty years

[FifeSons]

2 hours ago, Frank Quitely said:

So, is anybody still believing that the current manager and players can turn this around ?  Based on those highlights it looks a very long shot.  Big call for the board.

I’d be very surprised if there are many examples of a manager coming back from a run of form this bad.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

Dumbarton fc have never engaged particularly well with the local community during my time supporting the club. When we played Montrose I was in hospitality and their board / reps consisted of about ten to a dozen who all came in with their sponsored jackets. We had Colin greeting them. They have local business men who are interested in the club. We have never had that. In the seventies we had Robert Robertson, a man ahead of his time in club ownership, and he presided over our most successful period in the twentieth century. However he blew it fairly quickly with his threat to move the club to Cumbernauld and after that there was local hostility rather than engagement. Hugh Fraser started well although not local but his passing left us in limbo. We then had no owner for a number of years which is very relevant. None was interested in buying the club. No local businesses or people who had a local connection wanted to buy the club fairly cheaply despite the fact that we were just out of the premier division. Neil Rankine eventually appeared and again started well with the second division championship in 1992. However it didn’t take long to collapse and we were soon the worst club in the Scottish league while our ground was left to rot. Then it was Brabco and now the Norwegian/architect. The common denominator is that one of them have been local or even had the local area at heart. For clubs like us to thrive you need local input but for some reason we just haven’t had that over the last fifty years

Have we ever really recovered since Gilbert Lawrie sadly left us 

[Boghead ranter]

29 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

Dumbarton fc have never engaged particularly well with the local community during my time supporting the club. When we played Montrose I was in hospitality and their board / reps consisted of about ten to a dozen who all came in with their sponsored jackets. We had Colin greeting them. They have local business men who are interested in the club. We have never had that. In the seventies we had Robert Robertson, a man ahead of his time in club ownership, and he presided over our most successful period in the twentieth century. However he blew it fairly quickly with his threat to move the club to Cumbernauld and after that there was local hostility rather than engagement. Hugh Fraser started well although not local but his passing left us in limbo. We then had no owner for a number of years which is very relevant. None was interested in buying the club. No local businesses or people who had a local connection wanted to buy the club fairly cheaply despite the fact that we were just out of the premier division. Neil Rankine eventually appeared and again started well with the second division championship in 1992. However it didn’t take long to collapse and we were soon the worst club in the Scottish league while our ground was left to rot. Then it was Brabco and now the Norwegian/architect. The common denominator is that one of them have been local or even had the local area at heart. For clubs like us to thrive you need local input but for some reason we just haven’t had that over the last fifty years

My hazy memory has us doing OK under Robert Dawson and the other local hotelier whose name escapes me? Or was Rankine in the chair by then,and they were just board members? 

[BallochSonsFan]

11 minutes ago, DobbiesAgent said:

Have we ever really recovered since Gilbert Lawrie sadly left us 

Gilbert was part of the old school that saw innovation as something Dumbarton didn't do. He was also working for Brabco as much as he was working for the club in terms of the proposed stadium move.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

28 minutes ago, Boghead ranter said:

My hazy memory has us doing OK under Robert Dawson and the other local hotelier whose name escapes me? Or was Rankine in the chair by then,and they were just board members? 

You are thinking of Archie Hagen who owned the Roundabout Inn in Balloch - he and Robert Dawson were Directors in the time of Neil Rankine.

One of the problems we've had is the preponderence of people in the Boardroom with a background in legal circles and the Scotch whisky industry, two environments which are noted for their tradition and conservatism.  The resulting lack of dynamism I mentioned earlier has led to the club being heavily reliant on one major sponsor over a long number of years, and dare I say a rather pompous and aloof approach to anything or anyone outwith the prevailing approval zone.  That may be standard practice in an upmarket golf club, it is unhelpful in a business which ultimately relies on the public for its continued existence.  The time it took for the Trust to establish a (fully paid-up) seat at the table was ridiculous.

[Sons Fan]

Had a bit of a clear out and came across this old program. I don’t think it is anything special but free to a good home if anyone wants it.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

4 hours ago, Johnny Red said:

 

Aye, reign it in and open your eyes Tony Soprano

 

You are the king of cryptic shite tbqhwy.

[Howlin' Wilf]

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Gilbert was part of the old school that saw innovation as something Dumbarton didn't do. He was also working for Brabco as much as he was working for the club in terms of the proposed stadium move.

In Gilbert's defence, during his spell as Chief Executive the club got to the Championship and stayed there. - our most succesful period in nearly 40 years. 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

In Gilbert's defence, during his spell as Chief Executive the club got to the Championship and stayed there. - our most succesful period in nearly 40 years. 

I was going to say this…you pick up there on a couple of flaws yet the man seen us arguable through our most successful period where we had the most fans and a far better atmosphere! 

[squeezebox-son]

4 hours ago, DobbiesAgent said:

Manager needs to try and change something whether that’s personnel or tactics. 
 

players. Someone needs to actually show a bit of leadership and grab their team mates by the scruff of the neck and say that what’s happening at the minute isn’t good enough. 
 

I wouldn’t give Farrell the rest of the window though. Got to give another chap time to recruit at least one or two of his own instead of Faz bringing in his mates. Wylde is an example of that already 

Have I missed something with regards to him "signing his mates"?? Are Wylde and Faz pals? Who else has he signed that he has signed on the basis of them having a friendship?

Seen this once or twice today and think it was possibly yourself on both occasions who said it (apologies if it was someone else!).

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, squeezebox-son said:

Have I missed something with regards to him "signing his mates"?? Are Wylde and Faz pals? Who else has he signed that he has signed on the basis of them having a friendship?

Seen this once or twice today and think it was possibly yourself on both occasions who said it (apologies if it was someone else!).

I had said in the past about How over the last few seasons and now we currently appear to not put a lot of effort in to looking for younger guys with more potential and choose to fill it with experience with players that managers have been pals with before? 
 

For example aitken spent a whole budget almost on his mates when he was given the chance to take us back up? Duffy the same however not as bad! 
 

im not saying their is a direct link of friendship between faz and wylde but wylde played at East Kilbride, who were managed by Chris aitken stevies brother, who faz is pally with. 
Mark Lamont his ex player at Stranraer hasn’t kicked a ball this year…Paton too 

[Johnny Red]

You are the king of cryptic shite tbqhwy.

The word shite implies what I say is false. You will find everything I have said is spot on. And I’m not trying to be cryptic…..it’s not exactly ‘wee stinker’ crossword level is it? I’m trying to get you to open your eyes to what is going on and start asking questions of board members and trust representatives who have the answers. You say they are not taking money out the club? So the front man patsy flies over from Norway to live in Helensburgh. You think he is funding the accommodation and his various expenses himself do you?? And promising funding and sponsorship that will never be paid, which will cripple the club next season is probably worse than taking money out the club. Open your eyes and start asking questions.

[The Moonster]

5 hours ago, Johnny Red said:

 

The word shite implies what I say is false. You will find everything I have said is spot on. And I’m not trying to be cryptic…..it’s not exactly ‘wee stinker’ crossword level is it? I’m trying to get you to open your eyes to what is going on and start asking questions of board members and trust representatives who have the answers. You say they are not taking money out the club? So the front man patsy flies over from Norway to live in Helensburgh. You think he is funding the accommodation and his various expenses himself do you?? And promising funding and sponsorship that will never be paid, which will cripple the club next season is probably worse than taking money out the club. Open your eyes and start asking questions.

 

See, folk who know things can see all this stuff laid out in front of them. If you're not privvy to anything that's gone on (and that is about 98% of our support) then it's not just a case of opening your eyes and working it out for yourself. How the f**k are any of us supposed to know this Henning c**t is claiming expenses off the club? You make that point as if we're stupid for not knowing.

We've been asking questions for more than a decade and it's this shite we get in return all the time. If you know something you can share then share it. Dropping clues so that folk go on their own wee treasure hunt doesn't help, it especially doesn't help when we need a united front and it leads to this sort of argument. 

You say ask the Trust what's going on because they have answers but those people are already posting on here in the shape of O'Kelly/BSF/Jordo, and even they can't share all the info he's got. Your average Dumbarton fan will know f**k all about this situation and I don't think that's the fault of your average Dumbarton fan. We've essentially had a battle behind the scenes with a "nicey nicey" media front since Brabco arrived. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

49 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

See, folk who know things can see all this stuff laid out in front of them. If you're not privvy to anything that's gone on (and that is about 98% of our support) then it's not just a case of opening your eyes and working it out for yourself. How the f**k are any of us supposed to know this Henning c**t is claiming expenses off the club? You make that point as if we're stupid for not knowing.

We've been asking questions for more than a decade and it's this shite we get in return all the time. If you know something you can share then share it. Dropping clues so that folk go on their own wee treasure hunt doesn't help, it especially doesn't help when we need a united front and it leads to this sort of argument. 

You say ask the Trust what's going on because they have answers but those people are already posting on here in the shape of O'Kelly/BSF/Jordo, and even they can't share all the info he's got. Your average Dumbarton fan will know f**k all about this situation and I don't think that's the fault of your average Dumbarton fan. We've essentially had a battle behind the scenes with a "nicey nicey" media front since Brabco arrived. 

If only we had an investigative journalist or two about the place.....

[George Parr]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

See, folk who know things can see all this stuff laid out in front of them. If you're not privvy to anything that's gone on (and that is about 98% of our support) then it's not just a case of opening your eyes and working it out for yourself. How the f**k are any of us supposed to know this Henning c**t is claiming expenses off the club? You make that point as if we're stupid for not knowing.

We've been asking questions for more than a decade and it's this shite we get in return all the time. If you know something you can share then share it. Dropping clues so that folk go on their own wee treasure hunt doesn't help, it especially doesn't help when we need a united front and it leads to this sort of argument. 

You say ask the Trust what's going on because they have answers but those people are already posting on here in the shape of O'Kelly/BSF/Jordo, and even they can't share all the info he's got. Your average Dumbarton fan will know f**k all about this situation and I don't think that's the fault of your average Dumbarton fan. We've essentially had a battle behind the scenes with a "nicey nicey" media front since Brabco arrived. 

Spot on.

Generally speaking our supporters (or the P&B branch at least) are fairly sceptical and I don't think we shy away from discussing topics that are uncomfortable for the football club. But there seems to be a fervent belief from a couple of 'in the know' contributors that we need to 'open our eyes' and magically peak behind the curtain at information not currently in the public domain . It's a plainly ludicrous expectation that we should have deduced that a Norwegian has taken up residence in a neighbouring town and is, by whatever mechanism, siphoning off cash from the club to fund his nefarious schemes and up-market accommodation.

f**k the f**k off is my reaction. 

[BallochSonsFan]

11 hours ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

In Gilbert's defence, during his spell as Chief Executive the club got to the Championship and stayed there. - our most succesful period in nearly 40 years. 

It certainly was, and Gilbert did a lot for the club.

But if we're critical of Brabco's Youngs Farm plan then I can't gloss over Gilbert's role in it. He was asked by Brabco to work on the Youngs Farm deal separately from any work he undertook as a Dumbarton director.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

7 hours ago, Johnny Red said:

 

The word shite implies what I say is false. You will find everything I have said is spot on. And I’m not trying to be cryptic…..it’s not exactly ‘wee stinker’ crossword level is it? I’m trying to get you to open your eyes to what is going on and start asking questions of board members and trust representatives who have the answers. You say they are not taking money out the club? So the front man patsy flies over from Norway to live in Helensburgh. You think he is funding the accommodation and his various expenses himself do you?? And promising funding and sponsorship that will never be paid, which will cripple the club next season is probably worse than taking money out the club. Open your eyes and start asking questions.

 

My eyes are firmly open. 

Instead of posting riddles then present us with facts and evidence. The average fan isn’t privvy to ITK information, I work with a few Sons fans who have absolutely zero clue what is going on behind the scenes and think I’m a bit of doom merchant for trying to inform them of how bad the situation really is. 

I’ve asked plenty of questions in the past and will ask plenty of questions in the future, including at numerous meetings with previous owners and board members. I was always told that whilst our owners are charlatans they generally left us to get on with things. This information regarding them bot coughing up sponsorship money now or in the past is completely new to me and I’m sure many others. Why is this sort of thing not being called out? Why is this information not being made public? 

It’s very, very difficult for anyone to gather facts and solid information from random folk posting anonymously on a football forum. It’s even harder trying to convince other people how bad the situation is when that’s all you have to back it up.

[BallochSonsFan]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

 

You say ask the Trust what's going on because they have answers but those people are already posting on here in the shape of O'Kelly/BSF/Jordo, and even they can't share all the info he's got. Your average Dumbarton fan will know f**k all about this situation and I don't think that's the fault of your average Dumbarton fan. We've essentially had a battle behind the scenes with a "nicey nicey" media front since Brabco arrived. 

Former in my case. Should point that out. Stood down around Dec 2019/Jan 2020 because of a change in work commitments.

Still a trust member and a very strong advocate of supporter representation, but right now its as a trust member. It's also long enough now that I can discuss some of the things that went on behind closed doors since the likes of Les Hope, Chris Stainton and Ian Wilson are no longer involved with the club.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

“Awright mate, we’re actually fucked and have a Norweigan conman who is funding a lavish life in Helensburgh with money he takes directly from the club”

”wow how do you know this!?”

”a random c**t called Johnny Red posted it on a football forum named after a pastry item and meaty drink you buy at the fitba”