Sons' sorrow

[O'Kelly Isley III]

We've scored the same amount in the league as Clyde and they have David Goodwillie. We've scored 3 fewer than Plastic Whistle but they've had three more home games than us.....
Context....perspective.

And we've never lost to Everton in European competition; a statistic of sorts, but a wholly irrelevant one. Context and perspective are fine, but for me the evidence of what I'm watching is more compelling, and at the moment grimly so.
I'll buy into the run of home games bit, or at least I would if we didn't play the exact same way as we do away from home. Is it too much to ask that Jim Duffy sends out a team intent on taking the game to the opposition ? We don't have the players ? Well, whose responsibility is that ?

Based on what we're seeing right now there will come a time when statistics don't cut it. And with Clyde having played two league less that might be quite soon.

[FifeSons]

Still 3/4 of the season to go and it’ll be a very tight league other than the top three. I’ve still got faith Duffy will see us right.

[Jordo1872]

7 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Which goes back to the arguments Brabco were making and the massive gaps in the credibility of those arguments.

Moving stadiums does nothing unless you're getting a massive pay out and rebuilding on the cheap. Even then the money runs out soon enough and you're back to square one. The only thing that'll work for the club is increasing revenue. More fans through the gate. Those fans spending more. People hiring the stadium for non-football purposes. We could move to a brand new stadium tomorrow and it wouldn't make a bit of difference unless we knew how to make that new stadium work for us financially.

Brabco fed us fantasies about renting out pitches for strong money, getting people to take office space or hiring the stadium for functions and events. And if we're talking hypothetically then that's fair enough. All of those things can bring non-football revenues in to a football club. The problem is demand. Is there a demand in Dumbarton and the Vale of Leven for events space? Or football pitches? Or office space? And thats where the argument goes south because if there isnt the demand then there's absolutely no value in having the facilities.

We could make the current stadium work better for us. It would take a bit of money to upgrade. It would also take time to sell the stadium as a facility and to build up a regular client base. Things like the comedy club are important in that respect because you're getting non-football people down to the ground and showing them that they can host a function there and have a great time. So somebody from the comedy audience needs a venue foe a wedding, birthday or retirement party and they've seen that the stadium can be a really good events space. Somebody is there in hospitality and needs something for a work function and sees that it can be a good option for them. All of that takes time and it takes a degree of knowledge and experience to make work. It isnt a quick fix.

We have a facility that can boast arguably the two largest capacity function suites in the shire, and it sits empty for the majority of the week, every week. It’s under utilised and that’s a major contributory factor in the clubs current financial position. By no way the major factor, we all know where that noose sits, but a factor nonetheless.

In my view the club still suffer from the lack of community engagement that goes back to the Boghead years. Where the fans were made to feel unwelcome never mind those not of a football persuasion. The irony of our current situation is that at a time when we have absent and wholly negligent owners we have a board who are willing to engage with the support and the local community. We have great sponsors and plenty of effort from those able to offer time to help the club, but the frustration comes from the time it takes to repair past damage and the complete lack of transparency, competence and investment from Brabco. A group of individual, incoherent spivs trying to sell a dream they had no experience or capability to deliver. 

If a club like ours is to thrive it needs to find a way to position itself at the heart of the community. That means opening doors and arms to non-football people. The comedy club was pitched to do just that. It was marketed as a comedy club that just happened to be hosted at a football stadium, rather than a DFC event. The latter appeals only to the normal audience of stereotypical football fans. I think this worked well and the audience was generally more weighted towards women and not the usual faces you’d see at club/trust events. During the first few nights we had an enquiry about how you would go about booking the club as a venue and a women telling us she ‘didn’t know the club had such a good function room’. I didn’t know whether to be pleased we’d been able to present the club as such, or frustrated at the lack of local awareness about what the club has to offer.

Id love to see the club open 5 days a week, opening up space for community groups, business meetings, educational events and other private functions. How many kids parties have we seen at the club? How many kids would enjoy the novelty of being able to visit the dressing rooms? There’s opportunities there that other venues can’t offer that we don’t make the most of imo. We have a massive car park. Why are we not hosting family events at Christmas, Easter, Halloween, Bonfire Night, summer holidays etc etc etc. None of this will bring us an international centre-forward, but it will start to engage the local community and give us a fighting chance of building a sustainable future with a supporter base to match.

All that takes money to implement, whether it’s a full-time operations manager or simply a caretaker able to turn the heating and lights on; and cover the bills. There in lies the immediate problem. We have a major issue with our current ownership model and it’s maybe time to start focussing more energy on that. If we don’t I fear we’re only heading in one direction and the current performances and capabilities displayed on the pitch should give everyone an indication of what direction that is.

 

[FifeSons]

I wonder if Jones sees himself as League 1’s Giroud?

Edited December 6, 2020 by FifeSons

[Howlin' Wilf]

10 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

And we've never lost to Everton in European competition; a statistic of sorts, but a wholly irrelevant one. Context and perspective are fine, but for me the evidence of what I'm watching is more compelling, and at the moment grimly so.
I'll buy into the run of home games bit, or at least I would if we didn't play the exact same way as we do away from home. Is it too much to ask that Jim Duffy sends out a team intent on taking the game to the opposition ? We don't have the players ? Well, whose responsibility is that ?

Based on what we're seeing right now there will come a time when statistics don't cut it. And with Clyde having played two league less that might be quite soon.

OK I take the point that XClyde have played two games fewer. They've also conceded four goals more.

[The Moonster]

Frizzell's deal is up in 4 weeks. Anyone keeping him at the moment?

[sarti pooh]

52 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Frizzell's deal is up in 4 weeks. Anyone keeping him at the moment?

I would aye unless Duff has something remarkable up his sleeve for January.

He's not ripped the league apart by any stretch but he's arguably still our best out ball at the minute.

[The Moonster]

7 minutes ago, sarti pooh said:

I would aye unless Duff has something remarkable up his sleeve for January.

He's not ripped the league apart by any stretch but he's arguably still our best out ball at the minute.

Duffy rarely has anything up his sleeve so I'm inclined to keep hold of him but 1 goal against Clyde so far is all he's really offered. Certainly can't see him having many suitors based on his performances with us.

[cedrick1]

I think we would want to keep frizzell as it he had been most likely so far.

in addition only a spfl loan like a Chris Kane type in my opinion will be a better option. 
unlikeky to be anyone good enough at a price for us sitting about doing nothing. 
 

 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

I don’t think Frizzell has been particulary great since his return but Duffy’s tactics couldn’t suit him any less if they tried. At one point yesterday he was the only man up the park as Jones had dropped deeper, Jones played a pass to Quitongo, who had plenty of time to play a simple pass to someone else, and he lumps it up to 5ft nothing Frizzell. The defender didn’t even need to jump to clear it and Frizzell just looked completely scunnered.

The players aren’t completely blameless for us looking like a total rabble going forward but the more I watch us the more I find it difficult to criticise them. You could really see the frustration building yesterday as they watched the ball consistently sail over their heads. We have some decent football players in Forbes, Frizzell, Wedderburn, Crossan and Hamilton but they simply aren’t able to show it.

I’d keep Frizzell without a doubt but it’s probably pointless with the way we play. We’d be aswell signing some big haddy who’s 6ft 2 and can win headers. 

[FifeSons]

I think we need a physical presence upfront who’s actually decent, given Duffy is unlikely to change the way we play. I would keep Frizzell too though.

[The Moonster]

34 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

I don’t think Frizzell has been particulary great since his return but Duffy’s tactics couldn’t suit him any less if they tried. At one point yesterday he was the only man up the park as Jones had dropped deeper, Jones played a pass to Quitongo, who had plenty of time to play a simple pass to someone else, and he lumps it up to 5ft nothing Frizzell. The defender didn’t even need to jump to clear it and Frizzell just looked completely scunnered.

The players aren’t completely blameless for us looking like a total rabble going forward but the more I watch us the more I find it difficult to criticise them. You could really see the frustration building yesterday as they watched the ball consistently sail over their heads. We have some decent football players in Forbes, Frizzell, Wedderburn, Crossan and Hamilton but they simply aren’t able to show it.

I’d keep Frizzell without a doubt but it’s probably pointless with the way we play. We’d be aswell signing some big haddy who’s 6ft 2 and can win headers. 

Quitongo had played a pass up the line to Church previous to that who miscontrolled it and lost the ball. The camera zoomed into that part of the pitch and you could see Duffy clear as day telling Quitongo to play it long into the channel instead. I don't blame the players for the tactics, we know last year that our defence are limited but they aren't just hammer throwers, both Quitongo and Wardrop are better playing passes on the deck and our centre backs are capable of playing the ball into midfield, as they did to the likes of McKee last year. 

I sincerely hope Wilson just had a knock yesterday because it's criminal not to include him when we're lumping it into channels, he's the only player we have who won't stop chasing those balls.

[sarti pooh]

I think Denny has offered more than Jones as well when he's coming on but got to think there's a reason why Jones has started a few times ahead of him.

Maybe he's still feeling slight fatigue from his illness or maybe he can only manage 15/20 mins which wouldn't be great.

Maybe try him in a two up with Wilson who would be a willing runner?

[O'Kelly Isley III]

I don’t think Frizzell has been particulary great since his return but Duffy’s tactics couldn’t suit him any less if they tried. At one point yesterday he was the only man up the park as Jones had dropped deeper, Jones played a pass to Quitongo, who had plenty of time to play a simple pass to someone else, and he lumps it up to 5ft nothing Frizzell. The defender didn’t even need to jump to clear it and Frizzell just looked completely scunnered.
The players aren’t completely blameless for us looking like a total rabble going forward but the more I watch us the more I find it difficult to criticise them. You could really see the frustration building yesterday as they watched the ball consistently sail over their heads. We have some decent football players in Forbes, Frizzell, Wedderburn, Crossan and Hamilton but they simply aren’t able to show it.
I’d keep Frizzell without a doubt but it’s probably pointless with the way we play. We’d be aswell signing some big haddy who’s 6ft 2 and can win headers. 

I'd agree with most of this but would make a couple of points. Sad to say I think Ross Forbes best days are now behind him, and we can't afford a guy who only delivers the occasional good corner or dead ball (very few so far this season). Most games have simply passed him by.
Secondly, Daniel Church is showing very little to suggest he was years at Celtic, but in fairness to the lad it must be very difficult to join a team who like to keep the ball in the air. Ditto Hamilton, Wedderburn and as you say Frizzell.
Either Jim Duffy is demanding this approach or the players are disregarding his instructions; either of these is a real problem IMO, but I tend towards the former.
An upwardly-mobile Cove come calling this Saturday. If McGeever, Crossan, Wilson and McCluskey are fit can we at least shake it up a bit, try to pass the ball and remember it's Cove Rangers and not Liverpool we're playing.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

8 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I'd agree with most of this but would make a couple of points. Sad to say I think Ross Forbes best days are now behind him, and we can't afford a guy who only delivers the occasional good corner or dead ball (very few so far this season). Most games have simply passed him by.
Secondly, Daniel Church is showing very little to suggest he was years at Celtic, but in fairness to the lad it must be very difficult to join a team who like to keep the ball in the air. Ditto Hamilton, Wedderburn and as you say Frizzell.
Either Jim Duffy is demanding this approach or the players are disregarding his instructions; either of these is a real problem IMO, but I tend towards the former.
An upwardly-mobile Cove come calling this Saturday. If McGeever, Crossan, Wilson and McCluskey are fit can we at least shake it up a bit, try to pass the ball and remember it's Cove Rangers and not Liverpool we're playing.

I’d tend to agree regarding Forbes and I wouldn’t be all that arsed if he disappeared into the sunset come January. He’ll probably be on a decent wedge and that wage could used for someone more effective. Again though, he’s another who would benefit from the ball being on the deck and perhaps we’d see an improvement from him if the tactical approach was slightly different. 

I thought the lad Church was the worst player on the park yesterday but he’s one of two midfielders who aren’t playing in their natural position so I’ll cut him some slack. If it was up to me he’d be another one buggering off in January to be replaced with better. My main fear is that Duffy’s signing record since he arrived tends to suggest he very rarely replaces what we have with someone better. 

[squeezeboxson]

I know we have absolutely nothing in midfield but I'm inclined to say we would be much better (and hopefully less likely to play hoofball) if we set up with Frizzell and Crossan on the wings. I know Frizzell and Wilson worked out well vs Clyde when we won at home but I feel like we have only got Wedderburn capable of looking for a pass forward and with players like Forbes and Church on the "wings" we don't have much mobility, creativity and perhaps most importantly quality to carry it up the park into the danger area. Besides, isn't Frizzell meant to be a winger?

I concede that we don't have many options up front and with a set up like that we either play one of the other midfielders and one up front or you are starting DJ or RJ up front with Wilson. I feel like the whole squad needs a mix up and mostly the starting 11 needs shook around a little bit. But Duffy is the last person in the world who will do that kind of thing so I guess we won't be seeing that any time soon.

[optimistic]

Should Duffy stay or go?

Is it time for a young manager who commands a lesser wage, which could hopefully be used on the squad?

I say yes

[George Parr]

21 minutes ago, optimistic said:

Should Duffy stay or go?

Is it time for a young manager who commands a lesser wage, which could hopefully be used on the squad?

I say yes

No. I'd only seek a change in management this season if the circumstances become absolutely dire. And we're far from that at the moment. 

Limping through the COVID end-times with a reasonably safe pair of hands in Jim is the best way forward for now. 

[cedrick1]

Add to that we would need to pay Duffy off so I tend to agree only if things got worse .

still not confident we will have funds to bring much in come January 

[FifeSons]