Sons' sorrow

[FifeSons]

Can’t remember feeling so ‘meh’ after what on paper is a very decent result. Bigger picture just feels pretty bleak at the moment.

What really are our expectations this season? For me, we need to be challenging for 4th, but the bad play-offs looks more likely.

I actually think we do have the core of a decent team.

Edited December 5, 2020 by FifeSons

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Can’t remember feeling so ‘meh’ after what on paper is a very decent result. Bigger picture just feels pretty bleak at the moment.
What really are our expectations this season? For me, we need to be challenging for 4th, but the bad play-offs looks more likely.
I actually think we do have the core of a decent team.

Re that last sentence, who would be in this 'core' ?

[FifeSons]

6 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

13 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

Can’t remember feeling so ‘meh’ after what on paper is a very decent result. Bigger picture just feels pretty bleak at the moment.
What really are our expectations this season? For me, we need to be challenging for 4th, but the bad play-offs looks more likely.
I actually think we do have the core of a decent team.

Re that last sentence, who would be in this 'core' ?

Dabrowski, Neill, McGeever, Rico, Carswell, Wedderburn, Frizzell, Wilson are definitely the core of a pretty decent League 1 squad.

I’d make an argument for Wardrop too.

Problem is, other than Frizzell (and maybe the fullbacks) there’s not really any creativity there.

Edited December 5, 2020 by FifeSons

[FifeSons]

Starting Goalkeeper, defence and centre mid are all good enough for me. We do, however, badly need a natural winger (if not two) and another striker.

Oh, and to play to win games...

Edited December 5, 2020 by FifeSons

[cedrick1]

I didn’t watch today’s game as against one of the so called bigger teams I thought it would be backs to wall. 
it appears that was the case and in other games we certainly lack creativity.

with the finance issues I can see where we can bring anyone in come January so I do t get involved in suggesting what we need. We all know but we won’t get .

I wonder fitness prevailing if crossan frizzell and Wilson is a better option provided we can get ball to them ?? 

I’ll probably watch next week as I’ve never seen cove but not expecting much better.

Let’s also see where we are at year end after a run of home games 

 

[Howlin' Wilf]

Today was a combination of a fairly solid defensive performance and a few generous slices of luck. 

The positives? The keeper has been a real find IMHO and Carswell slotted in well beside Neill.  Wardrop and Quitongo were decent enough.  Wedderburn works hard. In the few chances we created, Frizzell looked lively but we're never going to get anything from Jones playing on his own up front. I'd have taken Jones off and tried Crossan up front for the last period of the game.

The game reminded me of a game at Easter Rd in the Championship where we nabbed a point from Hibs with Nish ploughing a lone furrow.

[lionel wickson]

Today was a combination of a fairly solid defensive performance and a few generous slices of luck. 
The positives? The keeper has been a real find IMHO and Carswell slotted in well beside Neill.  Wardrop and Quitongo were decent enough.  Wedderburn works hard. In the few chances we created, Frizzell looked lively but we're never going to get anything from Jones playing on his own up front. I'd have taken Jones off and tried Crossan up front for the last period of the game.
The game reminded me of a game at Easter Rd in the Championship where we nabbed a point from Hibs with Nish ploughing a lone furrow.

There was even a penalty save that day too.

[squeezeboxson]

3 minutes ago, lionel wickson said:

20 minutes ago, Howlin said:

Today was a combination of a fairly solid defensive performance and a few generous slices of luck. 
The positives? The keeper has been a real find IMHO and Carswell slotted in well beside Neill.  Wardrop and Quitongo were decent enough.  Wedderburn works hard. In the few chances we created, Frizzell looked lively but we're never going to get anything from Jones playing on his own up front. I'd have taken Jones off and tried Crossan up front for the last period of the game.
The game reminded me of a game at Easter Rd in the Championship where we nabbed a point from Hibs with Nish ploughing a lone furrow.

There was even a penalty save that day too.

I missed the game I think but wasn't that a rather dubious "save"?

[O'Kelly Isley III]

That's now zero goals scored in four consecutive matches, and whilst there were some chances created in the previous three, two of these were the Falkirk games when the games were effectively over.
Thankfully we do have some solid defensive performers and a decent (loan) keeper, although I'm still not convinced by Quitongo; for example, today Thistle right-back Williamson had the freedom of Firhill but mercifully his crosses were rank.
But it's further forward we are a shambles - no pace, no creativity, no playmaker to hold the ball or pick a pass...and other than the occasional (short-term contract) Frizzell flash when was the last time you saw a Dumbarton player go past an opponent with the ball at his feet ?
I'm probably in a tiny minority of the dwindling band of Sons contributors on here, but given that football is still notionally about entertainment I think I'd rather slide down the table having a go and losing 3-2 than watch the mince we're now enduring on a weekly basis.

[pleslie99]

We know we need revenue, and currently PPV streams are a way to get this. Todays performance isn't going to get folk going out their way to buy a pass to watch that. 1 shot on goal? 0 goals in 4 games. Football admittedly is grim. I dont expect us to play like man city but I do expect us to put an effort in to try and win a game of football. Xmas around the corner, I and many others im sure will have better things to spend money on. 

[Howlin' Wilf]

4 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Which goes back to the arguments Brabco were making and the massive gaps in the credibility of those arguments.

Moving stadiums does nothing unless you're getting a massive pay out and rebuilding on the cheap. Even then the money runs out soon enough and you're back to square one. The only thing that'll work for the club is increasing revenue. More fans through the gate. Those fans spending more. People hiring the stadium for non-football purposes. We could move to a brand new stadium tomorrow and it wouldn't make a bit of difference unless we knew how to make that new stadium work for us financially.

Brabco fed us fantasies about renting out pitches for strong money, getting people to take office space or hiring the stadium for functions and events. And if we're talking hypothetically then that's fair enough. All of those things can bring non-football revenues in to a football club. The problem is demand. Is there a demand in Dumbarton and the Vale of Leven for events space? Or football pitches? Or office space? And thats where the argument goes south because if there isnt the demand then there's absolutely no value in having the facilities.

We could make the current stadium work better for us. It would take a bit of money to upgrade. It would also take time to sell the stadium as a facility and to build up a regular client base. Things like the comedy club are important in that respect because you're getting non-football people down to the ground and showing them that they can host a function there and have a great time. So somebody from the comedy audience needs a venue foe a wedding, birthday or retirement party and they've seen that the stadium can be a really good events space. Somebody is there in hospitality and needs something for a work function and sees that it can be a good option for them. All of that takes time and it takes a degree of knowledge and experience to make work. It isnt a quick fix.

You do make some good points. Certainly there is going to be no demand for office space henceforth. Also Brabco fed us fantasies for sure. That's what companies wanting planning consent do. However, if we were to have a thriving spin-off function business at the Rock, earning a net profit of £20,000 per year (or nearly £400 per week, 52 weeks per year) , it would take 15 years to pay off the amount (£300,000) required now to just bring the stadium and environs up to current safety regulations. I understand that hitherto there was leniency on the required work, due to the possibility of the club moving to a new location.

It's Brabco and not DFC that is for sale. Brabco is a SPV to relocate DFC. There were two interested parties pre-lockdown. I can confidently say that if it were DFC alone which were for sale, those parties would certainly not have been interested ones.

Like everyone here, I just want to see the club survive and prosper. We need to consider all possibilities in pursuit of that goal.

 

[lionel wickson]

That's now zero goals scored in four consecutive matches, and whilst there were some chances created in the previous three, two of these were the Falkirk games when the games were effectively over.
Thankfully we do have some solid defensive performers and a decent (loan) keeper, although I'm still not convinced by Quitongo; for example, today Thistle right-back Williamson had the freedom of Firhill but mercifully his crosses were rank.
But it's further forward we are a shambles - no pace, no creativity, no playmaker to hold the ball or pick a pass...and other than the occasional (short-term contract) Frizzell flash when was the last time you saw a Dumbarton player go past an opponent with the ball at his feet ?
I'm probably in a tiny minority of the dwindling band of Sons contributors on here, but given that football is still notionally about entertainment I think I'd rather slide down the table having a go and losing 3-2 than watch the mince we're now enduring on a weekly basis.

I'll cheer you up, it's no goals in 5!

[lionel wickson]

I missed the game I think but wasn't that a rather dubious "save"?

VAR has confirmed that the full circumference of the ball did not cross the line.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

I'll cheer you up, it's no goals in 5!

Correct ! How could I forget about the Killie game ? Quite easily, actually.

[Howlin' Wilf]

49 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

That's now zero goals scored in four consecutive matches, and whilst there were some chances created in the previous three, two of these were the Falkirk games when the games were effectively over.
Thankfully we do have some solid defensive performers and a decent (loan) keeper, although I'm still not convinced by Quitongo; for example, today Thistle right-back Williamson had the freedom of Firhill but mercifully his crosses were rank.
But it's further forward we are a shambles - no pace, no creativity, no playmaker to hold the ball or pick a pass...and other than the occasional (short-term contract) Frizzell flash when was the last time you saw a Dumbarton player go past an opponent with the ball at his feet ?
I'm probably in a tiny minority of the dwindling band of Sons contributors on here, but given that football is still notionally about entertainment I think I'd rather slide down the table having a go and losing 3-2 than watch the mince we're now enduring on a weekly basis.

I believe in perspective. We have had five games away from home from which we have gained 5 points. We've had two home games, one against a team below us which we won and the other against the team which leads the league by four points, whom we met in midweek and who are full-time.

[cedrick1]

Fair point wilf. We now have a run of home games and a squad almost free of injury so Let’s see where we are in a month or so. 

 

[Howlin' Wilf]

1 minute ago, cedrick1 said:

Fair point wilf. We now have a run of home games and a squad almost free of injury so Let’s see where we are in a month or so. 

 

Indeed. Five out of our next six games are at home. 

[C'mon_the_Sons]

On 02/12/2020 at 18:29, BallochSonsFan said:

Being realistic, there aren't that many viable options within Dumbarton. If land was to become available in the industrial estate then it would be an interesting option. Central and well located for public transport, but traffic would be an issue. The opposite would probably be true of Dumbuck - far better for traffic getting onto the A82 but not great for public transport and a real problem if there was an accident on the A82 (as we see regularly around the Milton/Bowling roundabout areas. Everywhere is going to be a compromise of some sort. 

Coming late to this chat, but I think we’ll eventually end up somewhere on the former Esso site. They’re building a relief road through there at some point which the buses could use instead of A82 so could resolve some of the transport challenges.

[Howlin' Wilf]

28 minutes ago, lionel wickson said:

I'll cheer you up, it's no goals in 5!

We've scored the same amount in the league as Clyde and they have David Goodwillie. We've scored 3 fewer than Plastic Whistle but they've had three more home games than us.....

Context....perspective.

[BallochSonsFan]

34 minutes ago, C'mon_the_Sons said:

Coming late to this chat, but I think we’ll eventually end up somewhere on the former Esso site. They’re building a relief road through there at some point which the buses could use instead of A82 so could resolve some of the transport challenges.

Would need to see major infrastructure upgrades. If theres a problem anywhere between the Vauxhall garage and the Erskine Bridge then right now the A82 becomes a car park.