Sons' sorrow

[Homer Thompson]

I'm not sure it would make a massive financial difference one way or the other at Leagues 1 and 2 level to be honest. The further up the leagues you go though the more it would have an effect. There's every chance that entire supporters clubs worth of OF firms for instance would go to their local and watch St Johnstone or Ross County away on a single paid stream than attend the game. It has a potentially massive effect on away attendances. To a lesser extent that's likely to be the case in the Championship too especially when you have the odd occasion at Hearts or Hibs ends up there. Of course as BBPF pointed out there will also be some people who don't travel to away games now because they either have no transport, or no time, or family commitments or can't afford it who might pay £10 for a stream to offset losses from other supporters not going. I'm pretty sceptical those numbers would be the same though.
Quite apart from that, it would be a sad day for football as a spectator sport when we're encouraging people NOT to attend by providing alternatives that enable them to treat a Dumbarton or QoS match like it's Liverpool on the telly. The atmosphere of physically attending is important, both for the spectator but also for the product. What we see with no crowds is an artificial product. The players don't like it.
That clubs can stream abroad (as they always could, but this will lead to more clubs having the infrastructure in place to carry it on post-Covid) is good and fair but it's a problem domestically. Of course it's not realistic to suggest that people living in London or Birmingham can pop to their home games in Dumfries or Dumbarton but where do you draw that line? We have fans who travel from well down South. We have a season ticket holder in Oldham who comes every game, we have fans in Shrewsbury who come 4 or 5 times a season. It's pretty much impossible I assume under current technology to set an arbitrary distance within the UK where you can do it. That being the case, then not allowing it is preferable to allowing it for all.
Personally I'd take a lot of persuading that there is a benefit to clubs in the medium term to allowing streaming even if there are no attendance restrictions.

It wouldn't be impossible to put in more specific go-restrictions.

[Skyline Drifter]

8 minutes ago, Mr X said:

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I'm not sure it would make a massive financial difference one way or the other at Leagues 1 and 2 level to be honest. The further up the leagues you go though the more it would have an effect. There's every chance that entire supporters clubs worth of OF firms for instance would go to their local and watch St Johnstone or Ross County away on a single paid stream than attend the game. It has a potentially massive effect on away attendances. To a lesser extent that's likely to be the case in the Championship too especially when you have the odd occasion at Hearts or Hibs ends up there. Of course as BBPF pointed out there will also be some people who don't travel to away games now because they either have no transport, or no time, or family commitments or can't afford it who might pay £10 for a stream to offset losses from other supporters not going. I'm pretty sceptical those numbers would be the same though.
Quite apart from that, it would be a sad day for football as a spectator sport when we're encouraging people NOT to attend by providing alternatives that enable them to treat a Dumbarton or QoS match like it's Liverpool on the telly. The atmosphere of physically attending is important, both for the spectator but also for the product. What we see with no crowds is an artificial product. The players don't like it.
That clubs can stream abroad (as they always could, but this will lead to more clubs having the infrastructure in place to carry it on post-Covid) is good and fair but it's a problem domestically. Of course it's not realistic to suggest that people living in London or Birmingham can pop to their home games in Dumfries or Dumbarton but where do you draw that line? We have fans who travel from well down South. We have a season ticket holder in Oldham who comes every game, we have fans in Shrewsbury who come 4 or 5 times a season. It's pretty much impossible I assume under current technology to set an arbitrary distance within the UK where you can do it. That being the case, then not allowing it is preferable to allowing it for all.
Personally I'd take a lot of persuading that there is a benefit to clubs in the medium term to allowing streaming even if there are no attendance restrictions.

It wouldn't be impossible to put in more specific go-restrictions.

Fair enough. Above my knowledge grade!

So you could (affordably) instal a system that would say allow streaming if you live more than 200 miles away from the ground but not if you live 199 miles away?

[BallochSonsFan]

18 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Fair enough. Above my knowledge grade!

So you could (affordably) instal a system that would say allow streaming if you live more than 200 miles away from the ground but not if you live 199 miles away?

In theory? Yes.

Dundee Stars used a form of geo blocking for their webcasts. Not sure if they still do, but they certainly used to.

[Homer Thompson]

Fair enough. Above my knowledge grade!
So you could (affordably) instal a system that would say allow streaming if you live more than 200 miles away from the ground but not if you live 199 miles away?

Yes and no. It would be possible to restrict within the UK but not quite that accurately.

Affordably is an entirely subjective measure!

[Skyline Drifter]

Just now, Mr X said:

Yes and no. It would be possible to restrict within the UK but not quite that accurately.

Affordably is an entirely subjective measure!

So how could it work then? Postcodes? What if someone was watching on 4G whilst in a car?  How could an "in UK" restriction work?

[The Moonster]

You're wasting your bandwidth here. The rules will go back to what they were as soon as full stadiums are allowed - outside UK streaming only.

Clubs have been doing that for years and anyone with the brain capacity to do a Google search would be able to watch it if they please, no matter their location. I very much doubt it has any lasting affect on clubs finances otherwise clubs would be doing something about people tuning in via a VPN.

[Homer Thompson]

So how could it work then? Postcodes? What if someone was watching on 4G whilst in a car?  How could an "in UK" restriction work?

Postcode is most likely, I would think. Its far from infallible, though, so there are probably lots of scenarios where it won't be particularly reliable.

You're wasting your bandwidth here. The rules will go back to what they were as soon as full stadiums are allowed - outside UK streaming only.
Clubs have been doing that for years and anyone with the brain capacity to do a Google search would be able to watch it if they please, no matter their location. I very much doubt it has any lasting affect on clubs finances otherwise clubs would be doing something about people tuning in via a VPN.

Yes, they will.

You're also right, it's not difficult to get round go-blocking, if you know what you are doing. I don't think there are that many football fans who do know what they're doing to make it an issue worth bothering about.

[The Moonster]

2 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Yes, they will.

You're also right, it's not difficult to get round go-blocking, if you know what you are doing. I don't think there are that many football fans who do know what they're doing to make it an issue worth bothering about.

Exactly. Clubs may well have a problem in future when technophobe auldies die out and are replaced by today's teenage hackers and coders but until then I think the standard arrangement works well.

[Homer Thompson]

Exactly. Clubs may well have a problem in future when technophobe auldies die out and are replaced by today's teenage hackers and coders but until then I think the standard arrangement works well.

I think it would be good if streaming could opened up to people who genuinely can't make the game. I just don't know how you could practically do that without others taking advantage and using it as a reason not to go.

[FifeSons]

Anyone open to being bribed to video call me all our games? 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

As we enter December it's worth noting that we have 3 players who are currently only signed up until January in Frizzell, Church and Hamilton. 

I reckon Frizzell fancies himself at a higher level and if he goes on a run of decent form between now and then I'd expect him to be offski. He'll certainly need to up his game a bit if he's hoping to catch the eye but I do think his decent pedigree will have a few clubs sniffing around. I'd like to think we will be able to keep a hold of Hamilton (as long as Robbie Neilson is happy with him playing disgusting Duffyball and operating out on the wing every week) and I don't imagine Church will have clubs lining up to sign him but do we really need him?  I'd rather we kept Church and got rid of young Morrison but we certainly don't need both IMO.

Knowing how Duffy operates we will not have any of them tied down early doors, so I'd probably prepare for a frustrating January with a threadbare squad. 

 

[The Moonster]

5 games left before their deals are up, I reckon Frizzell will need to set the heather alight if he's going to have folk chasing him. So far he's contributed 1 goal against Clyde and not much else, he's also still not fully fit. I don't see why we wouldn't keep Hamilton. Can take or leave Church. 

What would be nice in January is if Duffy could make a concession that he's signed more than a few who aren't good enough and attempts to move them on whilst replacing them with perhaps fewer players of better quality.

[Jan Vojáček]

*Shameless self promotion time*

To mark 20 years at the Rock I spoke to Sir Patrick of Flannery for this week's Lennox, and we have a two page spread with him looking back on his time with the club. It has some smashing old photos (I basically dragged over every single one I could find) too, so plenty to keep you all occupied for at least five minutes.

Please go out and buy a copy. It will help me put more magic beans in my car this weekend to ensure I don't have to walk to Firhill.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

*Shameless self promotion time*
To mark 20 years at the Rock I spoke to Sir Patrick of Flannery for this week's Lennox, and we have a two page spread with him looking back on his time with the club. It has some smashing old photos (I basically dragged over every single one I could find) too, so plenty to keep you all occupied for at least five minutes.
Please go out and buy a copy. It will help me put more magic beans in my car this weekend to ensure I don't have to walk to Firhill.

Duly bought and it's a first-class piece Jan.

I was also very interested in the article on Page 16 apropos the stalled walkway development from the Quay to the Rock. There were some quotes in there which made interesting reading, suggesting that WDC and DFC are actively engaged in relocating the club. Michael McGuinness, WDC Economic Development Manager was quoted thus 'The ambition is for them to move and that site to become a housing site'
Well, now we know, but it would be interesting to know who is representing DFC in all of this.

[The Moonster]

31 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Duly bought and it's a first-class piece Jan.

I was also very interested in the article on Page 16 apropos the stalled walkway development from the Quay to the Rock. There were some quotes in there which made interesting reading, suggesting that WDC and DFC are actively engaged in relocating the club. Michael McGuinness, WDC Economic Development Manager was quoted thus 'The ambition is for them to move and that site to become a housing site'
Well, now we know, but it would be interesting to know who is representing DFC in all of this.

Is there a date or time attributed to that quote? I'm pretty sure those exact words were used in an article years ago when the walkway was first mentioned. I wouldn't be shocked if it was just old quotes being used.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Is there a date or time attributed to that quote? I'm pretty sure those exact words were used in an article years ago when the walkway was first mentioned. I wouldn't be shocked if it was just old quotes being used.

You could be right Moonster, but what shocking levels of shoddy, misleading journalism if you are. What next - death notices for folk who died 5 years ago ?

[Jan Vojáček]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Duly bought and it's a first-class piece Jan.

I was also very interested in the article on Page 16 apropos the stalled walkway development from the Quay to the Rock. There were some quotes in there which made interesting reading, suggesting that WDC and DFC are actively engaged in relocating the club. Michael McGuinness, WDC Economic Development Manager was quoted thus 'The ambition is for them to move and that site to become a housing site'
Well, now we know, but it would be interesting to know who is representing DFC in all of this.

Thanks very much OKI, glad you enjoyed it!

I clocked that last week too and wondered the same. I'm trying to get somewhere...but I'm not holding my breath. I set about Brabco a wee bit last summer but there are only so many brick walls you can hit before your head becomes sore. 

47 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Is there a date or time attributed to that quote? I'm pretty sure those exact words were used in an article years ago when the walkway was first mentioned. I wouldn't be shocked if it was just old quotes being used.

I did a wee search of our system which goes back to 2012 (I think, Andy Galloway was the reporter here so I reckon it was about that time) and couldn't find the line. Think it came from a WDC meeting last week, so the council officer could've just rehashed a previous line. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Jan Vojáček

[The Moonster]

12 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

Thanks very much OKI, glad you enjoyed it!

I clocked that last week too and wondered the same. I'm trying to get somewhere...but I'm not holding my breath. I set about Brabco a wee bit last summer but there are only so many brick walls you can hit before your head becomes sore. 

I did a wee search of our system which goes back to 2012 (I think, Andy Galloway was the reporter here so I reckon it was about that time) and couldn't find the line. Think it came from a WDC meeting last week, so the council officer could've just rehashed a previous line. 

I had a wee look myself but all I could find was a Dumbarton Reporter article with McGuinness saying he'd had a meeting with DFC at that time and talks were positive about a castle walkway. I'm starting to wonder if it was a news article I read it in or if it was one of the many spats I stupidly entered into with Martin Rooney.

If it is a fresh quote then it raises a lot of questions. The move to the Renton road is surely completely dead, so if the ambition is still there to move us and WDC are aware of it, where exactly are we moving to now? I'm assuming we have no active plans in for review? Perhaps one for the Trust rep to clarify for us.

[Bogheadboy]

Has Posties/Sandpoint ever been considered as an option?

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Has Posties/Sandpoint ever been considered as an option?

There was a rightful furore when there was a plan to build the new St Pat's school there, and the traffic situation alone would block it. Let's not try to dignify a deal which effectively bet DFC against a highly speculative property deal which was too ambitious for the parties involved.