Sons' sorrow

[FifeSons]

19 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I think it was obvious to everyone except Alan Jardine at the time. I always remember Jardine telling us the Brabco deal was the best deal available and with the Hosie family involved it would ensure no harm comes to the club. He even warned us of "charlatan" property developers who flew in on a helicopter from Ireland and landed on the pitch. What a laugh it's been.

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Rankine is an out and out rogue, but one who wouldn't want to see the club come to any harm. 

The whole affair sounds like a bit of a soap opera.

Is there anything that actually stands between Brabco selling the land right now and leaving the club homeless? I'm assuming there must be or they would've already done so.

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, FifeSons said:

 

The whole affair sounds like a bit of a soap opera.

Is there anything that actually stands between Brabco selling the land right now and leaving the club homeless? I'm assuming there must be or they would've already done so.

The Golden Share. I don't think Brabco fancy taking that on in a court of law.

[FifeSons]

4 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

The Golden Share. I don't think Brabco fancy taking that on in a court of law.

So, its basically a case of which gives first; the club becoming insolvent or Brabco accepting a reasonable offer.

[Boghead ranter]

25 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

So, its basically a case of which gives first; the club becoming insolvent or Brabco accepting a reasonable offer.

I dont doubt Brabco would take a reasonable offer in a heartbeat. The 2 issues are :

1) Brabco's idea and an investor's isea of a reasonable offer will differ.

2) Who's gonna invest?

Edited November 23, 2020 by Boghead ranter

[BallochSonsFan]

46 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

The Golden Share. I don't think Brabco fancy taking that on in a court of law.

I also don't believe that they'd be keen on picking another fight with the council. WDC might be no friend of the club but whilst there's no political will to help us, there's equally no political will to do us harm. Planning for the current site would be difficult if it left the club homeless.

[FifeSons]

I'm not local and never have been, so I don't know anything about WDC, but it seems so ridiculous to me that they wouldn't want to do everything in their power to help the football club thrive.

Edited November 23, 2020 by FifeSons

[The Moonster]

2 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

It seems so ridiculous to me that the council wouldn't want to do everything in their power to help the football club thrive.

This is the same council who "expected" us to pay money to them so that THEY could build a path on OUR land. "Be ridiculous" is their mission statement.

[FifeSons]

11 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

This is the same council who "expected" us to pay money to them so that THEY could build a path on OUR land. "Be ridiculous" is their mission statement.

Wow.

I am increasingly concerned about the future of the club. I'm sure plenty other clubs have the same worries, especially in this climate, but when you couple our own predicament with the increasing number of wealthy-owner-backed non-league clubs, I really worry where we will be in 5 years.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Wow.
I am increasingly concerned about the future of the club. I'm sure plenty other clubs have the same worries, especially in this climate, but when you couple our own predicament with the increasing number of wealthy-owner-backed non-league clubs, I really worry where we will be in 5 years.

I think we are all concerned, but some of that concern has its origins in what I referred to earlier as the information vacuum, and I include myself in that.

There are still choices to be made though; one is a policy of passive resistance in which the DFC Board and the supporters and sponsors try to mitigate Brabco's current stance by maintaining the club as best they can. I personally don't view that as either viable or desirable in the long term, and I fear it will lead to further decline on and off the park.

An alternative would be for the DFC Board and supporters representatives to proactively seek a meeting with Brabco to determine their position with regard to their shareholding. Do they want out ? How much would they accept ? If so, how can we assist that process, ie advertising and marketing the club ? If they don't want out, then what do they envisage for the club's future ? I consider these to be perfectly reasonable enquiries.

Until there are answers to such questions we can't form either a clear picture or a policy.

[FifeSons]

6 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

An alternative would be for the DFC Board and supporters representatives to proactively seek a meeting with Brabco to determine their position with regard to their shareholding. Do they want out ? How much would they accept ? If so, how can we assist that process, ie advertising and marketing the club ? If they don't want out, then what do they envisage for the club's future ? I consider these to be perfectly reasonable enquiries.

Until there are answers to such questions we can't form either a clear picture or a policy.

If the Golden Share means they can't sell the land, then I think we've got absolutely nothing to lose by going with that approach.

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

An alternative would be for the DFC Board and supporters representatives to proactively seek a meeting with Brabco to determine their position with regard to their shareholding. Do they want out ? How much would they accept ? If so, how can we assist that process, ie advertising and marketing the club ? If they don't want out, then what do they envisage for the club's future ? I consider these to be perfectly reasonable enquiries.

As reasonable as those enquiries may be, that alternative isn't really dependent on the fans. If you give fans a platform they'll ask a whole manner of questions but the problem is and always has been getting Brabco to be transparent and accountable. Still, 10 years down the line, there are people involved with Brabco that we don't even have a name for. Even if we were to get Brabco onto a platform where questions could be asked and answered - would you believe a fucking word that came out of Ian Wilsons mouth? I listened to the guy for an hour in the Rock bowling club all those years ago and I wouldn't trust him with a lemonade stand never mind safeguarding the future of a 150 year old football club.

 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

As reasonable as those enquiries may be, that alternative isn't really dependent on the fans. If you give fans a platform they'll ask a whole manner of questions but the problem is and always has been getting Brabco to be transparent and accountable. Still, 10 years down the line, there are people involved with Brabco that we don't even have a name for. Even if we were to get Brabco onto a platform where questions could be asked and answered - would you believe a fucking word that came out of Ian Wilsons mouth? I listened to the guy for an hour in the Rock bowling club all those years ago and I wouldn't trust him with a lemonade stand never mind safeguarding the future of a 150 year old football club.
 

Based on past experience that's a perfectly reasonable viewpoint Moonster but consider this; if things continue on their current path with no effort made to hold Brabco to account then there's a risk our club won't see that 150 years.

And if our financial contributions are helping finance the club then we supporters have a skin in the game.

[The Moonster]

26 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Based on past experience that's a perfectly reasonable viewpoint Moonster but consider this; if things continue on their current path with no effort made to hold Brabco to account then there's a risk our club won't see that 150 years.

And if our financial contributions are helping finance the club then we supporters have a skin in the game.

I'm with you, I really am, but how does the average fan hold largely anonymous owners to account? What do I need to do?

[BallochSonsFan]

Your ordinary fan in the street isnt going to have an influence. Brabco have ignored fans for the entirety of their ownership. If we're going to shift them then it needs to be with the help of somebody willing to finance the deal and accept repayment over a very long period of time. 10-15 years. Such individuals may well be out there. We need to know that we've got one on our side and willing to work with us before we start asking Brabco for realistic takeover sums. Brabco engaged with the trust when they thought it was in their interest. They thought that by giving the appearance of engagement then they'd get the backing of the fans and that fans would put pressure on the council to allow their planning application. If Stainton and Wilson are going to come back to the table on behalf of their fellow investors then they need to believe that there's a viable prospect of them getting their money.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Your ordinary fan in the street isnt going to have an influence. Brabco have ignored fans for the entirety of their ownership. If we're going to shift them then it needs to be with the help of somebody willing to finance the deal and accept repayment over a very long period of time. 10-15 years. Such individuals may well be out there. We need to know that we've got one on our side and willing to work with us before we start asking Brabco for realistic takeover sums. Brabco engaged with the trust when they thought it was in their interest. They thought that by giving the appearance of engagement then they'd get the backing of the fans and that fans would put pressure on the council to allow their planning application. If Stainton and Wilson are going to come back to the table on behalf of their fellow investors then they need to believe that there's a viable prospect of them getting their money.

An interesting take BSF, and if Brabco have no intention of discussing their position with people here that suggests to me that they are either seeking their own offload of DFC (which I very much doubt) or they are pursuing a medium-term strategy of the club descending into an irreversible decline, with an outcome which usually accompanies that situation.

Secondly, I don't think I had ever suggested that any efforts to re-engage Brabco should be fan-based. Fan involvement certainly, but there is a Board of Directors in place at DFC and any approach to Brabco must include them, from the standpoint of their legal and operational position as representatives of all the club's shareholders, but also in terms of the authority they can bring to any negotiations.

Before any of that however there needs to be recognition of the debilitating position the club currently finds itself in and consensus on how to proceed to try and alter it. And that has still to be established.

[DFCdownsouth]

All very worrying reading above - it's good to see we have fans that have information on the situation and can fill the rest of us in so we have more understanding of what is going on behind the scenes so thanks for that.

On tonight's performance - not great at all but expected. Great job on the commentary though fellas.

[cedrick1]

I see on game thread comments about needing money to boost squad. 
clearly an issue is our inability to score even in defeat.

based on this thread my view is unless we get a Colin weir type lottery winner , it’s gonna be a long road

current investment from fund raising only keeps the bills just about ticking

coukd be we are lucky Forfar are poor too. Don’t see much change in squad cone january. Agree completely with bbpf views on squad building 

 

[FifeSons]

That was depressing viewing tonight. Our inability to score is the biggest concern, for me.

However, I actually do think we have some really good players. Dabrowski, Rico, Carsy, Wedderburn, Frizzell and Wilson are our best IMO. Neill and McGeever are solid League 1 centre-backs. Hamilton has looked good when he’s played. Wardrop clearly needed minutes and has had some shocking moments, but I still believe his quality is in there.

The problem is, any quality we do have melts away pretty quickly with a few injuries.

[FifeSons]

3 hours ago, cedrick1 said:

based on this thread my view is unless we get a Colin weir type lottery winner , it’s gonna be a long road

 

I don’t think we necessarily need something on that scale to turn the tide, but I get your point. Personally (like probably all Sons fans) I’d love to be able to make some significant contributions to the club, but that’s still some years down the line from being a possibility for me.

Anything seems like it would be 100x better than a Brabco ownership. It doesn’t sound like it would be possible to have an owner that contributes less.

Edited November 25, 2020 by FifeSons

[O'Kelly Isley III]

That was depressing viewing tonight. Our inability to score is the biggest concern, for me.
However, I actually do think we have some really good players. Dabrowski, Rico, Carsy, Wedderburn, Frizzell and Wilson are our best IMO. Neill and McGeever are solid League 1 centre-backs. Hamilton has looked good when he’s played. Wardrop clearly needed minutes and has had some shocking moments, but I still believe his quality is in there.
The problem is, any quality we do have melts away pretty quickly with a few injuries.

The last three games have been extremely dispiriting. Two of these have been against a Falkirk team which is expected to be challenging for promotion, so no disgrace there, but the nature of the defeats has been concerning as a pointer for what lies ahead.
And there are reasons for that. When you are skint you don't have the luxury of building the squad you would wish in terms of both quality and fitness. You also have very basic training facilities. So you hope that the squad hangs together fitness-wise, that Denny Johnstone and Adam Frizzell defy their history, and that you can still squeeze something from Ross Forbes. We do have a lot of honest, hardworking guys, but hardly an ounce of flair, invention or genuine pace. We can argue about some of Jim Duffy's signings, but everything will eventually come back to money, or the lack of it.
But there is hope. I recall chucking money into a bucket at Brockville in the early 1990's as Falkirk faced extinction. Change can happen, but it will involve getting Brabco off the scene. Not only for what is happening on the park, but because interest in and support for the club is steadily waning. We have no meaningful connection with local football and the club has become a hard sell.
Asking a shrinking support base to keep digging deep is not a workable business plan. Nor is a policy of continued passive resistance. By hook or by crook Brabco have to be brought to the table to explain their intentions.; it won't be easy but the requirement for it to happen is increasingly clear to see.
At least the subject is at last being aired.