Sons' sorrow

[Bankies Alive]

19 hours ago, Jan Vojáček said:

I see Conor Brennan is off to EK with Hutton. I wonder if Duffy didn't want to keep him, or if EK simply outbid us for his services.

 

They’ll have gone there for the cash.

Some serious money being spent by EK,Kelty and Darvel not to mention St Cadocs and Drumchapel Utd.

It was always going to happen once there was a working pyramid system.

[Jan Vojáček]

1 minute ago, Bankies Alive said:

They’ll have gone there for the cash.

Some serious money being spent by EK,Kelty and Darvel not to mention St Cadocs and Drumchapel Utd.

It was always going to happen once there was a working pyramid system.

I do wonder how sustainable a few of these clubs are, and what their aims exactly are. Is promotion to League Two really worth firing silly amounts of money at players for? And how sustainable is that if, like EK for example, your gates are circa 150. Or do they think that promotion would make it sustainable?

Kelty, to their credit, have got really strong attendances and I'd imagine they'd be a strong addition to the league setup - just like Cove and Edinburgh City have been. But the others? Meh. I wonder what will happen if a few seasons without promotion pass for them. Will the investors lose interest?

All speculation. And obviously I'd love for someone to come in and bankroll a push through the leagues for us - but at the back of my mind there would always be a worry that they could just pull the plug at any minute.

[Gordon EF]

2 hours ago, Jan Vojáček said:

I do wonder how sustainable a few of these clubs are, and what their aims exactly are. Is promotion to League Two really worth firing silly amounts of money at players for? And how sustainable is that if, like EK for example, your gates are circa 150. Or do they think that promotion would make it sustainable?

Kelty, to their credit, have got really strong attendances and I'd imagine they'd be a strong addition to the league setup - just like Cove and Edinburgh City have been. But the others? Meh. I wonder what will happen if a few seasons without promotion pass for them. Will the investors lose interest?

All speculation. And obviously I'd love for someone to come in and bankroll a push through the leagues for us - but at the back of my mind there would always be a worry that they could just pull the plug at any minute.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53514358

Ridiculous article here giving any reason they can compe up with other than these clubs being bankrolled and paying players relatively large wages. If that was the case why are clubs like Pollok, Spartans, Caledonian Braves, etc, etc not signing half a squad from the SPFL?

I do get why 'selling the story' of helping a club motor up through the leagues is more attractive than signing up to help Forfar avoid relegation to League Two but there's clearly a limit. Not all of these clubs will be able to get up through the bottleneck of the LL into the SPFL as quickly as they'd like. They'll be competing with each other and the larger pyramid clubs by the time they get there. How 'exciting' is it really going to be when you're just another club that's found it's level and is trying to balance up staying where you are with going one step further?

As you say, Kelty are probably the exception as they could probably survive in the SPFL (or at least make a good go of it) without the financial assistance. But clubs like East Kilbride and Darvel will drop straight back down unless they can significantly improve their attendences. And many clubs have proven that short terms bounces in crowds due to exitement, novelty, succes are very difficult to keep a hold of when that dries up.

Good luck to them though. No problem with clubs spending cash to get success. It's just a bit emabarrasing when they try to give it the old "selling the dream" shite.

[Jerry Macguire]

10 hours ago, Rising Sons said:

In other ex sons news, Ryan Tierney has signed for BSC Glasgow

Delighted with this signing. I think he’ll do really well at this level.

[Jan Vojáček]

6 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53514358

Ridiculous article here giving any reason they can compe up with other than these clubs being bankrolled and paying players relatively large wages. If that was the case why are clubs like Pollok, Spartans, Caledonian Braves, etc, etc not signing half a squad from the SPFL?

I do get why 'selling the story' of helping a club motor up through the leagues is more attractive than signing up to help Forfar avoid relegation to League Two but there's clearly a limit. Not all of these clubs will be able to get up through the bottleneck of the LL into the SPFL as quickly as they'd like. They'll be competing with each other and the larger pyramid clubs by the time they get there. How 'exciting' is it really going to be when you're just another club that's found it's level and is trying to balance up staying where you are with going one step further?

As you say, Kelty are probably the exception as they could probably survive in the SPFL (or at least make a good go of it) without the financial assistance. But clubs like East Kilbride and Darvel will drop straight back down unless they can significantly improve their attendences. And many clubs have proven that short terms bounces in crowds due to exitement, novelty, succes are very difficult to keep a hold of when that dries up.

Good luck to them though. No problem with clubs spending cash to get success. It's just a bit emabarrasing when they try to give it the old "selling the dream" shite.

That's an interesting article for sure. I can understand what it's saying, and Michael Kennedy makes a good point about being part of something - which I fully understand (along with the fact I'd love to be paid good money to do a job I'm far too good for) but the other aspects are far from groundbreaking. Ian McShane has chosen to go part-time so he can complete a modern apprenticeship. That's all well and good, but Ian McShane would've had his pick of part-time clubs - so why did he pick a club in the WoSFL who, three years ago nobody had heard of? Because they pay well. 

That's not to have a dig at them, it's the truth. So lets stop dancing around it. Darvel pay well, have good facilities and a well respected manager. I get the attraction, but if Darvel had their facilities, Michael Kennedy in charge but paid whatever they paid a few years ago (say £50 a week tops) then there's no chance guys like McShane would be there whilst they did their apprenticeship.

Given there is only one promotion playoff place available it'll be interesting to see how many teams don't make it up before the investment dries up. You'd have to fancy Kelty to make it this season; but then you'll potentially have the likes of Darvel joining the Lowland League to make things tough for EK or whoever. And that's before you add in the big clubs who don't have big backing, but will still do alright; Talbot, Pollok, Clydebank to name a few who are a similar size (if not bigger) than Kelty.

Say then that EK make it up, their attendances get a wee boost to 500 or so in their promotion season (because everyone loves a promotion party) and then they spend a few years dawdling around mid-table League Two. What will happen then?

I think there will be casualties here. But it could be a lottery as to who they are.

I also don't like this comment from Stevie Aitken: "There's teams there [in the SPFL] just happy to make up numbers, to protect their own wee bubble and stop teams coming up." Show me one team who start the season with the aim of just winning the relegation play-offs. 

3 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

Delighted with this signing. I think he’ll do really well at this level.

Good luck to him. I think there's a goalscorer in there, but he needs support around him, a manager to boost him full of confidence (Swifty could be the man for that) and to get a few goals under his belt. I can see him not being dissimilar to someone like Jack Smith if you get him firing on all cylinders though. 

He's a nice guy. I hope he does well.

[Gordon EF]

2 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

I also don't like this comment from Stevie Aitken: "There's teams there [in the SPFL] just happy to make up numbers, to protect their own wee bubble and stop teams coming up." Show me one team who start the season with the aim of just winning the relegation play-offs.

Exactly. He's talking utter shite. Of course there is always an element of clubs lobbying for what benefits themselves. That isn't just true for L2 clubs. It goes for everybody.

It's easy to talk about ambition when you can sign players from 2/3 levels above and are competing against clubs with next to no resources. Stick Stevie Aitken or Barry Ferguson in charge of Brechin or Albion Rovers and let's see how easy it is to talk about ambition when you have the smallest budget in your league.

Barry Ferguson couldn't even get Clyde promoted when he had the biggest budget in L2.

[Thommo90]

13 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

I also don't like this comment from Stevie Aitken: "There's teams there [in the SPFL] just happy to make up numbers, to protect their own wee bubble and stop teams coming up." Show me one team who start the season with the aim of just winning the relegation play-offs. 

 

 

Comments like that just show him up for being a wee raging diddy.  Actually hope so much that East Kilbride get nowhere purely because he is there.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Aitken is really showing himself up for the absolute fanny that he is with some of his recent nonsense. I thought he would have been a bit more humble given the disaster he had with us in League 1 and the fact he’s now dropped down to the Lowland League but his ego is ballooning. He should do himself a favour and take a step away from spraying his shite all over the media. 

[The Moonster]

33 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

 

I also don't like this comment from Stevie Aitken: "There's teams there [in the SPFL] just happy to make up numbers, to protect their own wee bubble and stop teams coming up." Show me one team who start the season with the aim of just winning the relegation play-offs. 

I genuinely fucking hate him. Actual, real hatred. 

[lorenzo71]

10 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

Aitken is really showing himself up for the absolute fanny that he is with some of his recent nonsense. I thought he would have been a bit more humble given the disaster he had with us in League 1 and the fact he’s now dropped down to the Lowland League but his ego is ballooning. He should do himself a favour and take a step away from spraying his shite all over the media. 

He has dropped down so far in most fans eyes.He is a Wannabe that is desperate to rub shoulders with the football elite.Lets see if he can buy his way to success at EK.I think his shitefest tactics will still shine through at some point.

[lorenzo71]

1 minute ago, The Moonster said:

I genuinely fucking hate him. Actual, real hatred. 

Mate he is not worth the aneurism.

[Jerry Macguire]

43 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

Good luck to him. I think there's a goalscorer in there, but he needs support around him, a manager to boost him full of confidence (Swifty could be the man for that) and to get a few goals under his belt. I can see him not being dissimilar to someone like Jack Smith if you get him firing on all cylinders though. 

He's a nice guy. I hope he does well.

If he does half as well as Jack did for us, he’ll do for me. Swifty can definitely make him a better player, for proof all you need to look at is the progress of Tam Orr and Thomas Collins. 

[Pachyderm I]

I love that there are 1993 pages of this thread. 

[Gordon EF]

3 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

If he does half as well as Jack did for us, he’ll do for me. Swifty can definitely make him a better player, for proof all you need to look at is the progress of Tam Orr and Thomas Collins. 

What kind of player are we getting in Collins?

[Jerry Macguire]

1 minute ago, Gordon EF said:

What kind of player are we getting in Collins?

Full of energy and a goal scorer. He lacked consistency and tended to drift in and out of games when he first came to the club but Swifty soon knocked that out of him. He can play wide left or up front. He will score you goals from both positions though. If you want an example of a typical Thomas Collins performance (and you can bear it) watch your game v us last season. (Sorry) That’s what your getting. Gutted to have lost him, but delighted he’s got a move up.

[Jan Vojáček]

33 minutes ago, lorenzo71 said:

He has dropped down so far in most fans eyes.He is a Wannabe that is desperate to rub shoulders with the football elite.Lets see if he can buy his way to success at EK.I think his shitefest tactics will still shine through at some point.

I'm interested to see how he plays. Hutton and Paton are two of his big name signings, but will they both be able to play in the same team without totally stifling the attacking threat you need to win a league? I'm seeing hints of a Carsy and Hutton 2018/19 partnership there.

[C'mon_the_Sons]

Think I might start going to EK home games (when I can't get to Sons games) just to support the opposition after that pish from Aitken! ABE(K)!!

[Boghead ranter]

I hope Aitken (the one we had latterly, not the initial one) falls spectacularly on his arse. And takes his sychophants with him.

I was worried that expressing this opinion would make me look really petty and vindictive, but then I read page 1993 and realised I'm not alone, far from it.

[Boghead ranter]

4 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Shouldn't work like that, should other supporters have said that Dumbarton should get nowhere when he was managing your club?

(Not saying he is not a raging wee diddy btw)

I think @Thommo90's sentiment isn't driven from Aitken's comments since becoming EK boss, more from his comments (directly and via his media buddies) and his behaviour in the months after leaving DFC. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Boghead ranter

[The Moonster]

22 minutes ago, Boghead ranter said:

I hope Aitken (the one we had latterly, not the initial one) 

This is actually a very good point and it highlights how much Aitken has lost his way. He was very grounded when he first joined us, he appeared to know lower league players well and signed up a good bunch of players we didn't know much about. Sure, he liked a couple of experienced bodies in there, but largely he could sign decent players from lower levels and make it work. 

Then Faz left. Durrant came in. Things changed. The signing policy of taking some of the best guys from lower levels disappeared and this drive for ex-Rangers duds, old folk winding down their career or guys falling out of full time football took hold. Signing too many injury prone duds like Danny Handling was ultimately what killed us that year. We dropped down and Aitken was given a chance to rectify his faults, but he doubled down. Signed some injury prone donkeys, signed some more ex-Rangers players and basically ran out of money before he could build a squad. The way he spent that League 1 budget is honestly criminal, like a 12 year old Rangers fan playing Football Manager. A link up previously with Celtic which included some great players like Jamie Lindsay and Joe Thomson joining us now seemingly in tatters too after Aitchison-gate - something that has never been explained which I think absolutely should have been. Others will believe what they want about that saga but I don't think we come out of it looking well. 

Durrant isn't to blame, he's been asked to come in and advise Aitken and he probably did advise him to the best of his knowledge/intelligence, I just don't think Durrants knowledge/intelligence is of a very high standard and ultimately that showed in the decisions Aitken made. Doesn't look like he's learned much though, he seems to be tripling down on an approach that has been an unmitigated shambles for at least the two previous seasons he's had in management.