Sons' sorrow

[The Moonster 13,893]

24 minutes ago, Homer Sandoval said:

Is this not the scenario that was always going to happen if Brabco did not get their plans for a new stadium passed? The current stadium is more than fit for purpose for the Sons though surely?

The ground is fit for purpose if we have no ambition of growing the club. The point is this development reduces/removes the chance of any future development that owners with more interest in the club could have used for investing in the club.

6 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

They'll be accessed from the other side, through the roads that already exist. As far as the money is concerned it will surely belong to Dumbarton FC as the ground belongs to the club/company, no?

I see, I didn't think you could access from that side. I don't know how this stuff works legally, but I'll be highly shocked if we see a penny of profit arrive in our account for club use.

[Nowhereman 574]

15 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

The ground is fit for purpose if we have no ambition of growing the club. The point is this development reduces/removes the chance of any future development that owners with more interest in the club could have used for investing in the club.

I see, I didn't think you could access from that side. I don't know how this stuff works legally, but I'll be highly shocked if we see a penny of profit arrive in our account for club use.

there is probably room behind the existing houses for an access road but looking at that plan again they might make the access to the houses via the existing pedestrian way in to the ground and make the only way in to the ground the entrance to the existing car park

[Homer Sandoval 17]

17 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

The ground is fit for purpose if we have no ambition of growing the club. The point is this development reduces/removes the chance of any future development that owners with more interest in the club could have used for investing in the club.

On the point of growing the club in terms of infrastructure that ship sailed when the proposal for a new stadium was opposed and rejected.

[The Moonster 13,893]

5 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

there is probably room behind the existing houses for an access road but looking at that plan again they might make the access to the houses via the existing pedestrian way in to the ground and make the only way in to the ground the entrance to the existing car park

That was my worry, could be a right laugh on match days.

4 minutes ago, Homer Sandoval said:

On the point of growing the club in terms of infrastructure that ship sailed when the proposal for a new stadium was opposed and rejected.

Nonsense. The Rock could be developed further if anyone had the money and desire to do so. The stadium proposal was rightly opposed and rejected on the basis of it being a poorly constructed fantasy.

[O'Kelly Isley III 2,906]

Reading between the lines this looks like the cashing in of an 'insurance policy' in the wake of the failed stadium move, one which may allow Brabco to clear their debt to Neil Rankine and let them get down the road with some cash for their trouble.

That would pose some questions though, principally the future ownership of the club, right down to where vehicles are to park in the future.

Good luck to anyone buying any of these homes - they can't say they weren't aware of their neighbours.

[BallochSonsFan 1,227]

3 hours ago, Homer Sandoval said:

On the point of growing the club in terms of infrastructure that ship sailed when the proposal for a new stadium was opposed and rejected.

It hasn't.

I have doubts as to whether or not Brabco could deliver what they said they would at the cost they thought they could. Land prices were best case scenarios. Budgets for infrastructure looked very optimistic considering the scale of the changes needed to the A82 and the poor state of the alternative Renton Road. I was never completely convinced that we'd ever get the final 4000 capacity version of their blueprint and always suspected that we'd get a minimum viable product and that later phases simply wouldn't happen, money having since been spent on the club's running costs.

A new stadium would have given the club the opportunity to explore alternative revenue streams. Those were primarily from the renting of artificial pitches for community use and from the renting of space for office use. There was also the opportunity to increase events at a new stadium with upgraded events space.

None of that offered any guarantees. Artificial pitches only bring in money if you build them at the right cost and can hire them out almost constantly at the right price. It's questionable whether or not the finances stacked up. I'd argue that they didn't and that Brabco's figures were "ambitious" at best. It's not that they didnt do any work on their plans but some of the assumptions about usage were way off for an area with relatively high unemployment and a low paid workforce.

You then look at other facility users. We've got an office park in Clydebank that has some major office space available at competitive rates. Attracting a decent-sized venue user (for example a call centre) wouldn't be straight forward. It would have taken some financial incentives from the local authority as a means of creating jobs and it would have required the club to expand significantly and bring in new skills.

Venue hire? The efforts of those fans who volunteer to organise events with a view to fundraising for the club are phenomenal. We're incredibly lucky to have a group of fans with the passion and dedication to try to make these things a success. But to fully maximise the facilities at a new stadium we'd have been looking to hire for exhibitions, conferences, weddings and other significant social occasions. The wedding market for a football club is incredibly small. You've got a 2 month window in May and June where you have very few home games and that frees up Saturdays for wedding receptions. Over the course of a season that runs July to early May? You're not going to attract weddings when you can't guarantee venue use 6 months or more in advance of a wedding date. The conference market in West Dunbartonshire? Not exactly huge demand.

Then there's the issue of growing the crowd. The location of the new ground wouldn't have been ideal. It would certainly have been newer and would have addressed some of the maintenance concerns that previous boards mismanaged. The current club board havent had their problems to seek in terms of the bricks and mortar of the current ground. But would the new ground have attracted new fans? I'm not convinced. It certainly wouldn't have been enough on it's own. The local public in Dumbarton and the Vale of Leven and in Helensburgh generally care very little for the club. A new ground wouldn't in itself attract new fans and we've got sufficient space in the current stand to run any promotions we want to with the intention of attracting new fans. We already offer free tickets to local football and other youth groups. We run ticket offers to encourage parents to take children to games. A new ground doesnt ignite interest in the club amongst people who at best regard us with complete apathy. 

The changes needed at Dumbarton run far deeper than the stadium. There needs to be fundamental change at the club. It doesnt need a new stadium on the edge of town to make that happen. The current board and the volunteer working group are already trying to make those changes happen and it's interesting to see that a lot of people who attend the various functions at the club are not Dumbarton fans. That's important because it starts to change opinion and to make people think of the current ground as a community facility that can be used, hopefully bringing in additional revenue that the club needs. Ideally that would be matched with an increase in fans contributing to healthier crowds and a local community that values it's football club more. In reality that's a long and difficult road for all lower league clubs to try to go down.

The new stadium would have been an opportunity but it certainly wasnt a guarantee. The council's refusal to allow planning permission cannot be seen as an insurmountable barrier to the future of Dumbarton FC.

Edited January 7, 2020 by BallochSonsFan

[sonsanorak 261]

Two interesting parts of the proposed build for me; the drainage pond to be built behind the houses that currently back onto the ground, and the noise attenuation that would be required to reduce the match day noise (effectively addressing the bad neighbour element)

[sonsism 300]

Good to see all is well in the dressing room

[super-son 130]

It would explain Carsy's performances for the vast majority of the season. Nowhere near the levels we have seen in previous seasons.

[George Parr 808]

Hopefully these exchanges are just typical, rambunctious changing room bants as I’d hate to see Carsy getting heedered again.

[The Moonster 13,893]

9 hours ago, sonsism said:

Good to see all is well in the dressing room

 

1 hour ago, George Parr said:

Hopefully these exchanges are just typical, rambunctious changing room bants as I’d hate to see Carsy getting heedered again.

Looks like normal Carswell banter to me.

[FalkirkBairn93 252]

What was the initial stadium plan for dumbarton? Was it to be two equal sized stands? Or three smaller set ups getting the capacity to 4000?

[The Moonster 13,893]

14 minutes ago, FalkirkBairn93 said:

What was the initial stadium plan for dumbarton? Was it to be two equal sized stands? Or three smaller set ups getting the capacity to 4000?

Phase 1 was only to build what we essentially have now, 1 stand, all seats but with added bits like gyms and office space. Phase 2, 3, 4 or Never was to build two end terraces and another smaller seated stand on the other side. The actual detail on how and when all those phases would be carried out was never set in stone, probably for good reason. They also had a kayak centre, and a Robert the Bruce wanking platform, but I guess we won't be lucky enough to see that come to life.

[sonsism 300]

Looks like normal Carswell banter to me.

Carswell tweet certainly does but not sure about Brennan’s. Hopefully they are both just at it. I’m sure they’re professional enough to not let it affect on the pitch performances if there is any sort of issue between them.

[The Moonster 13,893]

23 minutes ago, sonsism said:

 

Carswell tweet certainly does but not sure about Brennan’s. Hopefully they are both just at it. I’m sure they’re professional enough to not let it affect on the pitch performances if there is any sort of issue between them.

 

Looking over Brennan's tweets I'd suggest it's all just a laugh - he gets it in the neck quite often and takes it in good spirit.

The only worry for me out of all of it is the suggestion that Carswell hasn't always been present at training, but I suppose without any details we shouldn't really let it worry us.

[O'Kelly Isley III 2,906]

Until last Saturday I don't think I'd ever seen a goalkeeper shank a goal kick, but Brennan managed it three times in the first half alone.

[pleslie99 1,521]

Anyone else think the poll on twitter about the game of the decade is a bit of a waste of time? Surely TNS away will win at a canter? Lol

[BallochSonsFan 1,227]

2 hours ago, pleslie99 said:

Anyone else think the poll on twitter about the game of the decade is a bit of a waste of time? Surely TNS away will win at a canter? Lol

6-0 v Elgin would run it close in terms of the sense of occasion. Or the playoff win to gain promotion to the championship.

The tns game itself wasn't great from a football point of view even if the occasion was significant. Football wise I thought that the 4-0 drubbing of Raith at home where Robert Thompson tore Jason Thompson a new arsehole with the quality of his performance was one of the best football performances for a very long time.

[Howlin' Wilf 1,194]

On the planning permission thing, there has been outline planning permission for housing, for some years on the car park. Last year Brabco didn’t (forgot to) re-apply to renew permission which they are required to do. That then meant they had to make a new application. The granting of this is important because Neil Rankine holds security in law on that land as guarantee against what Brabco owes him. Had the application not been granted, the land, and Rankine’s security, would have become worthless and Rankine would almost certainly have taken action to retrieve his money.

[sonsism 300]

As far as game of the decade for me it has to be the 4-3 win at Falkirk. Think that was our first win under Murray and the beginning of the incredible run of form to get us off the bottom. Agnew and Lister went mental when they scored, Creaney got sent off with ten minutes left and Lyle Taylor ended up on a hattrick.

TNS was an awful game until the last 20 minutes but cannot be denied what a moment it was.