Sons' sorrow

[Boghead ranter]

58 minutes ago, spratte said:

Would have been a sight for sore eyes our squad from the start of last season against your current crop.

Off to[pic slightly, but you guys have a much better squad this year than you did last.

The team you have now wouldn't have toiled in the Championship the way last year's team did.

[the_bully_wee]

5 hours ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

I must admit, I find it fairly bizzare that a supporter of a team who have been an utter irrelevence to us for the best part of a decade seems to be getting some sort of pleasure out of our current situation.

Whatever floats your boat I suppose but I certainly don't recall any Sons fans sticking the boot in when you were floundering at the arse end of League 2. 

[Angus of the Mo]

2 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Any number of reasons for our current situation.

- Poor financial management from the previous board.

- Commercial contracts that didn't make the club money.

- Poor budget discipline by the previous manager.

- Absolutely minimal maintenance of the ground, leading to significant repair costs that had to be met.

- Limitations on attendances. Dumbarton didnt get any kind of Rangers/Hibs/Hearts premium.

- A limited number of local firms willing to offer strong sponsorship.

- Small crowds

 

Take your pick. The 4 Angus clubs benefited massively last season from being in the same division. They could punt hospitality massively and there was no shortage of firms looking for sponsorship opportunities. We don't have that option. We don't have the bigger companies looking for sponsorship opportunities. We've got a local community who'd rather drive to Ibrox or Parkhead than take in a game at their local ground. Throw in continuing difficulties with our absentee owners. We don't have the option of a rich benefactor punting money into the club like some others do.

No other option but to work our way out of the current problems. Easier said than done but the alternative is to let the club wither away. Not something that we're willing to do.

It’s a bit early to say, and judgement can only be taken when the season is well under way, but Montrose went through similar issues which ended when there was a clear out at the board and the new directors and chairman had more brains and a passion for the club than the old school has beens.

Seriously don’t want Dumbarton going the same way as Brechin. Last time I went to the glebe, few weeks back, the Mo brought 3 or 4 times their number.

Where Montrose has had huge success is the community trust, which has boasted the towns interest in the club. Periodically the schools are given free tickets which means accompanying adults, grandparents, parents etc are paying to get in and also rekindling their interest in the club. Last season in a game against Stenny, there was more than 2,000 of a crowd on one of the school ticket days.

The trust has also helped the down and outs in the town. At Christmas they put on a huge spread for folk who have hit hard times.

Scottish football suffers from lack of funding due to the TV being about the English leagues only, Linnekar gets more cash than Scottish football, it’s a pish situation, but then many English clubs are in a huge financial mess.  Nothing any of us can do about that, except refusing to pay a tv license.

Brechiners deserted their team, and you wonder where it all went wrong from a club that punched far above their weight for the last 20 years.

Should Dumbarton fans should stick together and demand changes in the way the club is run?

 

[Nowhereman]

Excuse my ignorance,but who is the “third party” mentioned regarding the budget deficit etc?.

Fairly sure it's Neil Rankine. And I'd be interested to know why he has a continuing interest in DFC's finances and helping us out

[Thommo90]

Moving away from dobber Duffy chat... how pish is McGeever?

Watch him at 4 of the goals yesterday, 3 especially are woeful.

Feeble at the first, can’t out jump mcmanus despite being about a foot taller, can’t track mcmanus again at the third.

We are completely fucked.

[pleslie99]

I tend to agree wholeheartedly with BBPF after reading the above. Everyone will have their own opinion but there is definitely some who will be trying to hide from the reality of the situation.
One thing that gets me is I keep hearing we have no money, we are skint etc etc. Obviously money isnt flush, I can accept that, as can most fans outwith the elite clubs in the world. Are we realistically any more skint than other clubs in the division/league 2? Surely Stranraer, Montrose, East Fife etc are not "minted" in comparison to us!

[Broken Algorithms]

2 hours ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

Wild indeed.

I have no doubt that when Duffy does eventually leave that his old media pals will be praising him right, left and centre. They will be making every excuse they can for him building the worst squad in Scottish professional football - budget was terrible etc etc. If he stays and relegates us I guarantee you he will get zero criticism from any of them.

Exactly the same thing has happened when we got rid of Hughes, and to a lesser extent Locke. After Locke was sacked, Billy Brown was on Radio Scotland saying it was a shambles that we'd not given him more time (we'd not scored at home from October to February). 

Hughes currently gets a regular gig on Radio Scotland. In recent months, there's been numerous current and former players saying how it wasn't his fault about what happened at Raith and talking him up.  He's been out the game just over two years now and there's an attempt to whitewash his meltdown at St Mirren and his lies towards the end of the season. I think quite a lot of people saw through his bullshit after he threw our players under the bus to try to salvage his reputation. 

[Gordon EF]

44 minutes ago, Broken Algorithms said:

Exactly the same thing has happened when we got rid of Hughes, and to a lesser extent Locke. After Locke was sacked, Billy Brown was on Radio Scotland saying it was a shambles that we'd not given him more time (we'd not scored at home from October to February). 

Billy Brown has a vested interest in utterly shite managers being given a free pass.

[BallochSonsFan]

1 hour ago, Angus of the Mo said:

It’s a bit early to say, and judgement can only be taken when the season is well under way, but Montrose went through similar issues which ended when there was a clear out at the board and the new directors and chairman had more brains and a passion for the club than the old school has beens.

Seriously don’t want Dumbarton going the same way as Brechin. Last time I went to the glebe, few weeks back, the Mo brought 3 or 4 times their number.

Where Montrose has had huge success is the community trust, which has boasted the towns interest in the club. Periodically the schools are given free tickets which means accompanying adults, grandparents, parents etc are paying to get in and also rekindling their interest in the club. Last season in a game against Stenny, there was more than 2,000 of a crowd on one of the school ticket days.

The trust has also helped the down and outs in the town. At Christmas they put on a huge spread for folk who have hit hard times.

Scottish football suffers from lack of funding due to the TV being about the English leagues only, Linnekar gets more cash than Scottish football, it’s a pish situation, but then many English clubs are in a huge financial mess.  Nothing any of us can do about that, except refusing to pay a tv license.

Brechiners deserted their team, and you wonder where it all went wrong from a club that punched far above their weight for the last 20 years.

Should Dumbarton fans should stick together and demand changes in the way the club is run?

 

Changes are already happening. The new board have been in place for around 16 months. The issues that they inherited were significant and there was a number of them that needed urgent attention. They've made some mistakes along the way. They've got some things right. The kind of change needed at Dumbarton takes time, particularly when the resources aren't there to take shortcuts.

The thing we need most right now is fans through the doors. If the local community won't engage with the club then we're doomed. Fans bring money, generate buzz around the area and can bring professional skills and experience that a part time club with limited resources may well need. Unfortunately fans want to watch a winning team and right now that isn't Dumbarton. So fans stay away, the club struggles and the squad is reflective of the money available to spend. So we sign a less than appealing squad, results suffer and fans stay away.

The owners talked of a cycle of decline. They read P'n'B. Right now their dire warnings that were issued when we were pursuing the failed move to Youngs Farm are unfortunately playing out. We can't shift Brabco right now. It'll take the kind of money we don't have to hand and we'd need help from a willing partner (in the same way as Hearts and Motherwell takeovers were funded) and a change of tactic from our owners. What we can do is prove them wrong and arrest the cycle of decline. We can only do that if fans see the bigger picture. Our troubles right now are temporary - they'll only become permanent if too few people care enough to fight back.

[Howlin' Wilf]

7 hours ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

No they aren't. The board stood infront of supporters at the recent Q and A and confirmed it. Jim Duffy has also confirmed it.

But hey lets bury our head in the sand and pretend Jim Duffy is a victim, that'll make it all better.

Both the circumstantial and documentary evidence would suggest that whatever was said at the Q and A, the reality is somewhat different. If you have read the notes from the published accounts at Companies House and think that the budget and Jim Duffy are the biggest problem at DFC then maybe it's your head that's buried.

[Howlin' Wilf]

3 hours ago, lionel wickson said:

If that is the case, and given the background and "quality" of the new players signed, he must surely have some significant budget left? I'm pretty sure he is on record saying that he was surprised by just how much last year's squad were being paid. A larger budget than Aitken had for 2018/19, doesn't really square with us having the second smallest one in the league.

Spot on.

[Howlin' Wilf]

1 hour ago, pleslie99 said:

I tend to agree wholeheartedly with BBPF after reading the above. Everyone will have their own opinion but there is definitely some who will be trying to hide from the reality of the situation.
One thing that gets me is I keep hearing we have no money, we are skint etc etc. Obviously money isnt flush, I can accept that, as can most fans outwith the elite clubs in the world. Are we realistically any more skint than other clubs in the division/league 2? Surely Stranraer, Montrose, East Fife etc are not "minted" in comparison to us!

Do any of the other clubs mentioned have a note in their accounts which says that their bankers will only support them until March 2020, and that they can only continue thanks to the generosity of an unnamed third party?

And that without this input, the club would be f***ed as a going concern?

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Both the circumstantial and documentary evidence would suggest that whatever was said at the Q and A, the reality is somewhat different. If you have read the notes from the published accounts at Companies House and think that the budget and Jim Duffy are the biggest problem at DFC then maybe it's your head that's buried.

Both the circumstantial and documentary evidence would suggest that whatever was said at the Q and A, the reality is somewhat different. If you have read the notes from the published accounts at Companies House and think that the budget and Jim Duffy are the biggest problem at DFC then maybe it's your head that's buried.

Stop making stuff up. At no point did I claim it was the biggest problem at DFC. The point I raised was around Jim Duffy and the budget. Not a list of issues in order of severity. The board told supporters they believed we had a competitive budget that isn't the smallest in the league and you called it "hearsay". That's not hearsay.

Jim Duffy is working with a better budget than what Aitken started with last season. Whether you want to believe that or not is up to yourself. Jim Duffy has built a terrible squad (not that you'd know that given you don't attend games).

If people want to believe that Jim Duffy is an unfortunate victim that's up to them. I personally think he should be doing far, far better with his squad building and since his arrival I have had question marks over his desire to actually be here. I'd rather he walked at the end of the season and let someone else take the reigns and I'd still be happy to see him walk.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Changes are already happening. The new board have been in place for around 16 months. The issues that they inherited were significant and there was a number of them that needed urgent attention. They've made some mistakes along the way. They've got some things right. The kind of change needed at Dumbarton takes time, particularly when the resources aren't there to take shortcuts.
The thing we need most right now is fans through the doors. If the local community won't engage with the club then we're doomed. Fans bring money, generate buzz around the area and can bring professional skills and experience that a part time club with limited resources may well need. Unfortunately fans want to watch a winning team and right now that isn't Dumbarton. So fans stay away, the club struggles and the squad is reflective of the money available to spend. So we sign a less than appealing squad, results suffer and fans stay away.
The owners talked of a cycle of decline. They read P'n'B. Right now their dire warnings that were issued when we were pursuing the failed move to Youngs Farm are unfortunately playing out. We can't shift Brabco right now. It'll take the kind of money we don't have to hand and we'd need help from a willing partner (in the same way as Hearts and Motherwell takeovers were funded) and a change of tactic from our owners. What we can do is prove them wrong and arrest the cycle of decline. We can only do that if fans see the bigger picture. Our troubles right now are temporary - they'll only become permanent if too few people care enough to fight back.

Bums on seats would help, no doubt of that, but it is stretching credulity to suggest that outwith the remaining hardcore support there is any incentive for others to turn up - people will not patronise a cafe selling crap meals on a regular basis. The game of football is supposed to be part of the entertainment sector.

We seem to have reached a crisis point, and rather than repeated exhortations to fans to provide a sticking plaster perhaps it's time for the current Board to call Brabco's bluff and demand of them what exactly are their intentions.

If they are candid enough to admit that these are no more than skulking in the background whilst peddling waffle about Young's Farm 2 and hoping that the club financially starves to death then at least we'd have an answer.

On the other hand if they hold to the line that they remain committed to DFC then that commitment will need to be very tangibly demonstrated in the financial sense at this time of crisis, on and off the pitch. And it is a crisis.

IMO, the time for the DFC Board continuing to try and square this hellish circle should be at an end - sometimes drastic situations call for drastic actions, but if this club goes under then there is no way that Brabco should be able to slink away without being held fully to account.

[BallochSonsFan]

15 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Bums on seats would help, no doubt of that, but it is stretching credulity to suggest that outwith the remaining hardcore support there is any incentive for others to turn up - people will not patronise a cafe selling crap meals on a regular basis. The game of football is supposed to be part of the entertainment sector.

We seem to have reached a crisis point, and rather than repeated exhortations to fans to provide a sticking plaster perhaps it's time for the current Board to call Brabco's bluff and demand of them what exactly are their intentions.

If they are candid enough to admit that these are no more than skulking in the background whilst peddling waffle about Young's Farm 2 and hoping that the club financially starves to death then at least we'd have an answer.

On the other hand if they hold to the line that they remain committed to DFC then that commitment will need to be very tangibly demonstrated in the financial sense at this time of crisis, on and off the pitch. And it is a crisis.

IMO, the time for the DFC Board continuing to try and square this hellish circle should be at an end - sometimes drastic situations call for drastic actions, but if this club goes under then there is no way that Brabco should be able to slink away without being held fully to account.

Brabco's intentions are clear and always have been OK3. Make money any way they can. Whether that means selling the club to try to recoup some of the money they've spent so far (although God knows they havent spent it on the club) or somehow resurrect the move/land deal is of secondary importance right now. The current effect is the same - they're doing nothing to help us and we can't make them go away right now. Brabco are already on record as stating that they'd block any form of new investment that would dilute their shareholding. Would another owner offer us something right now? Perhaps a financial investment. Perhaps administrative help with the day to day running of the club. It's a long shot though. Very few people are willing to put money our way, never mind able to. Brabco certainly aren't going to put any money our way any time soon. One prominent Brabco investor has some business issues of his own to address. They don't have the money to put into the club, never mind the desire to do so.

As for football being an entertainment industry? It is to a point. Fans want to be entertained but football has an emotional draw that other forms of entertainment don't have. If we're relying on entertaining football to bring people back to Dumbarton games then we'd be as well packing up now because in at least the short term that isn't going to happen. There needs to be something else. That might be the emotional draw of people backing the club when it needs them. It could be reaching out to the kind of people who don't normally go to football games. The only thing that's guaranteed is that the lower our crowds get then the poorer our finances will be. If people don't care enough about the club to go along then we'll eventually reach the point where there's no club to go to. Entertainment is great but the more pressing issue is whether or not we'll have a football club at all in Dumbarton rather than whether or not we're entertained on a Saturday afternoon.

Edited August 11, 2019 by BallochSonsFan

[Jordo1872]

The club is completely rancid. There's a disease that is not going away. Terminal. 
Treating fans like crap, a group that owns the club yet has no involvement, trust members on hiatus yet still not relenting control. No money, shite squad of lowland league dross, a has been manager with no clue and a town which doesn't know the club exists. Pull the fucking plug and save the fans money. 
 

The only thing that’s rancid here is your attitude, at a time when the club needs fans to unite and do what they can to get the club through a troubling spell.

I’ll be in touch regarding your request for your donation back.

[optimistic]

Fans takeover? Maybe some fans would come out the woodwork if they had a say, rather than what’s happening now.

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, optimistic said:

Fans takeover? Maybe some fans would come out the woodwork if they had a say, rather than what’s happening now.

We've got a rep on the board, folk can have their say now.

[BallochSonsFan]

5 minutes ago, optimistic said:

Fans takeover? Maybe some fans would come out the woodwork if they had a say, rather than what’s happening now.

It'll take a 7 figure sum to shift Brabco. It'll take a particularly rich fan or a businessman willing to underwrite a takeover and to receive repayment over a longer period of time to make that happen.

As for having a say? We've got a board of directors who are responsible for running the club. We have employees to do the day to day work and volunteers who supplement the board and the paid staff. Want your say? It's never been easier. Get involved with the trust. Engage with the club. You can't run a football club by committee but the current club board are as open and accessible as Dumbarton have had in a long time.

[pleslie99]

I keep seeing we need bums in seats, we need fans In the door, numbers are dwindling. Firstly, no wonder they are dwindling, even the hardcore fans are struggling to go to games, there is nothing to drag punters along, the standard is dross as are the players, even signing a "big name" may help, we have a bunch of players that no one has heard of so doesnt exactly drag in Joe blogs off the street.
Secondly, what exactly are the club doing to increase attendances and get new fans in? Where is the advertising within the town? Announcing the games, get people more aware that we are playing. We used to put posters up in local businesses, not seen that for a few years now, in fact I saw one the other week advertising a game from 2 seasons ago!! Advertising doesnt need to cost a fortune, before folk jump on my back, simple things like posters and social media go a long way. Another thing are cup runs, look at the buzz from the cup final, and aberdeen a few years ago. Punters came out for those games, those folk are still here we just need to get them in more often, not just for the glory games. Maybe if we didnt treat the betfred and the tunnocks caramel irn bru tartan loch ness monster cup as glorified friendlies and got to the latter stages a bit more often people would come out and get excited again.