Sons' sorrow

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

These are all assumptions and hearsay. I would be interested to know at what stage tha budget was increased and by how much. Also I'd be interested how it actually compared to last season.  
But hey! yeah! let's hound Duffy that'll make it all better.

No they aren't. The board stood infront of supporters at the recent Q and A and confirmed it. Jim Duffy has also confirmed it.

But hey lets bury our head in the sand and pretend Jim Duffy is a victim, that'll make it all better.

[sirscottyoung]

What input does rankine have with you guys. He owns us and when we hit financial issues swooped in and bought land off us personally at a massively reduced price. You better watch out for that

[DumbartonTheSons]

As ghastly a result as yesterday was and as low a plight we find ourselves in on the pitch, I think the people calling for Duffy’s head need to face facts and be realistic.

Firstly we’re two games into the league season and have played the top two sides.

Secondly, and far more importantly, WE HAVE NO MONEY.

How would we pay Duffy off? How would we revamp the squad? It’s just not possible so folks wanting or expecting wholesale changes at this stage is frankly ludicrous.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

As ghastly a result as yesterday was and as low a plight we find ourselves in on the pitch, I think the people calling for Duffy’s head need to face facts and be realistic.

Firstly we’re two games into the league season and have played the top two sides.

Secondly, and far more importantly, WE HAVE NO MONEY.

How would we pay Duffy off? How would we revamp the squad? It’s just not possible so folks wanting or expecting wholesale changes at this stage is frankly ludicrous.

Facts - lost 5 out of 6, conceded 19, scored 3, have a team of players from the juniors and exit trials who are miles out of their depth.

Realism - not being embarassed on a weekly basis, being semi competitive, signing at least a handful of players who are up to this level, building a squad capable of putting up a fight for survival.

It's not just previous results that are the problem it's the fact we have a squad there who could seriously lead us to one of our worst seasons in history.

We may not have the money to pay off Duffy but we can continue to hope he walks before his reputation ends up in tatters. That would allow someone with fresh ideas and an ability to sell the club to players of an acceptable standard. That person may even be able to do some surgery on the squad via loaning out and loaning in (I don't trust Duffy with our remaining loan slots tbqhwy). Then they will have January to perhaps perform more surgery on Duffy's car crash.

If that gets labelled as "frankly ludicrous" then I guess that's your problem fellr.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

As ghastly a result as yesterday was and as low a plight we find ourselves in on the pitch, I think the people calling for Duffy’s head need to face facts and be realistic.

Firstly we’re two games into the league season and have played the top two sides.

Secondly, and far more importantly, WE HAVE NO MONEY.

How would we pay Duffy off? How would we revamp the squad? It’s just not possible so folks wanting or expecting wholesale changes at this stage is frankly ludicrous.

There's a lot of truth in that, but is it your honest opinion that the squad we now have is the best ANY Manager could have assembled in the circumstances ?

If so then your argument holds, if not then people are reasonably entitled to express their frustrations at how Jim Duffy has gone about his business in the close season.

[Frank conner]

1 hour ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

1 hour ago, Frank conner said:

Paying daft wages to part time players  while in the championship  didn't help.

Fire up the proof Frank.

Our first season in league 1 when we announced we were staying full time it was your fans saying how much you were paying part time players. Clubs who are part time in this league can make a profit yet after several years in the championship your claiming to be skint.

Unless someone has pinched the money it wouldn't surprise me if you paid over the odds to try and stay in the championship. 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Our first season in league 1 when we announced we were staying full time it was your fans saying how much you were paying part time players. Clubs who are part time in this league can make a profit yet after several years in the championship your claiming to be skint.
Unless someone has pinched the money it wouldn't surprise me if you paid over the odds to try and stay in the championship. 

Well no, we paid the going rate to Championship standard players.

We didn't make a penny in the Championship, we have a 2k seater stadium and were paying top part-time wages in line with prize and attendance money we were receiving. Could we have budgeted better? Probably.

Our issues go much deeper. Unfortunately you don't have mental capacity to absorb such info so we'll keep this one short and sweet.

[Frank conner]

9 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

Well no, we paid the going rate to Championship standard players.

We didn't make a penny in the Championship, we have a 2k seater stadium and were paying top part-time wages in line with prize and attendance money we were receiving. Could we have budgeted better? Probably.

Our issues go much deeper. Unfortunately you don't have mental capacity to absorb such info so we'll keep this one short and sweet.

Your taking it well I see its pretty obvious what's happened and quite frankly you deserve all you get. As for claiming it costs a great deal for a 2k stand is laughable East Fife has more or less the same stand and manage.

Basically you got above your station and are now paying the price. 

[DumbartonTheSons]

Facts - lost 5 out of 6, conceded 19, scored 3, have a team of players from the juniors and exit trials who are miles out of their depth.

Realism - not being embarassed on a weekly basis, being semi competitive, signing at least a handful of players who are up to this level, building a squad capable of putting up a fight for survival.

It's not just previous results that are the problem it's the fact we have a squad there who could seriously lead us to one of our worst seasons in history.

We may not have the money to pay off Duffy but we can continue to hope he walks before his reputation ends up in tatters. That would allow someone with fresh ideas and an ability to sell the club to players of an acceptable standard. That person may even be able to do some surgery on the squad via loaning out and loaning in (I don't trust Duffy with our remaining loan slots tbqhwy). Then they will have January to perhaps perform more surgery on Duffy's car crash.

If that gets labelled as "frankly ludicrous" then I guess that's your problem fellr.

I appreciate that we have lost a staggering number of goals so far (only two league games though, the Betfred is little more than glorified friendlies now since the amending of the format but anyway) and yes the squad does look well short of quality. It may or may not lead us to one of the worst seasons in our history, it’s far too early to predict that as far as I’m concerned.

And let me say just now, I’m far from a Duffy fan. His transfers so far have been woeful, his tactics questionable, and as you’ve shown, results speak for themselves.

I’m in no way advocating that he’s done a good job or is the right man for the job, I’m merely saying that to expect/believe it’s a realistic possibility to punt a manager after two games when we have NO MONEY is just what I’ve said, frankly ludicrous.

There's a lot of truth in that, but is it your honest opinion that the squad we now have is the best ANY Manager could have assembled in the circumstances ?

If so then your argument holds, if not then people are reasonably entitled to express their frustrations at how Jim Duffy has gone about his business in the close season.

Absolutely not. As I’ve said above, I’m far from a Duffy fan and I believe several managers could have done a better job in squad assembly and player retention than Duffy, but for folk to want him to be pushed is one thing, and they’re entitled to that opinion.

But for anyone to remotely expect it to happen or happen imminently is entirely another.

We’ve played 180 minutes of league football and while I understand the frustrations of others, heck, I’m frustrated too, the ‘let’s bag him’ this early, and particularly given our financial plight is equally frustrating.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Your taking it well I see its pretty obvious what's happened and quite frankly you deserve all you get. As for claiming it costs a great deal for a 2k stand is laughable East Fife has more or less the same stand and manage.
Basically you got above your station and are now paying the price. 

Your taking it well I see its pretty obvious what's happened and quite frankly you deserve all you get. As for claiming it costs a great deal for a 2k stand is laughable East Fife has more or less the same stand and manage.
Basically you got above your station and are now paying the price. 

What are you slevering about?

Who said anything about the cost of a 2k seater stadium? Our 2k seater stadium meant we couldn't maximise profits against Rangers, Hibs, Hearts and Dundee Utd. To make this nice and easy for you to digest when Raith Rovers played any of the above teams you could make more money, because you have a bigger stadium with more seats which = more paying customers. Hard to grasp, I know, but you'll get there eventually.

It is obvious aye, to normal people, with a normal brain capacity. We have owners who want to sell us, they don't invest a penny and have let our stadium get into such a state it's draining our finances trying to maintain it. We have dwindling crowds. Our previous board weren't very good with setting funds aside for things that needed done. Our new board are now picking up the pieces.

I fully appreciate you struggle when it comes to processing information in a normal manner but it's proving difficult to make it any simpler for you.

[Mon_The_Fife]

Your taking it well I see its pretty obvious what's happened and quite frankly you deserve all you get. As for claiming it costs a great deal for a 2k stand is laughable East Fife has more or less the same stand and manage.
Basically you got above your station and are now paying the price. 

Where did BBPF state that ‘it costs a great deal for a 2k stand’? You don’t half post some utter drivel.

Also, for a guy in his 40’s or potentially 50’s you should really be able to understand the differences between your and you’re by now.

[The Moonster]

15 hours ago, Frank conner said:

Christ The Moonster must be taking it badly!

What you on about you absolute fucking weirdo?

14 hours ago, FifeSons said:

Interesting. The way I actually read that was that the playing budget was increased from what it would’ve been due to the related party than without them. Not that it had increased from 2018/2018 season.

He's working with more than Aitken was last summer.

8 hours ago, Poet of the Macabre said:

Why is the money situation so bad? Maybe being totally dense but I'd have thought being in the Championship for several years would have been financially rewarding for the club?

I wouldn't expect a bottomless pit of funds but bigger crowds and bigger prize money surely helped?

A bit dense. Brechin are an example of a team bagging the cash in the Championship, worked out well for them. If you want to compete in the Championship you need to pay the going rate.

 

 

[Silverton End]

12 hours ago, sirscottyoung said:

In the lowland league by the sounds of it

 

[Frank conner]

11 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

What you on about you absolute fucking weirdo?

He's working with more than Aitken was last summer.

A bit dense. Brechin are an example of a team bagging the cash in the Championship, worked out well for them. If you want to compete in the Championship you need to pay the going rate.

 

 

It certainly hasn't worked out well for you!

[BallochSonsFan]

Any number of reasons for our current situation.

- Poor financial management from the previous board.

- Commercial contracts that didn't make the club money.

- Poor budget discipline by the previous manager.

- Absolutely minimal maintenance of the ground, leading to significant repair costs that had to be met.

- Limitations on attendances. Dumbarton didnt get any kind of Rangers/Hibs/Hearts premium.

- A limited number of local firms willing to offer strong sponsorship.

- Small crowds

 

Take your pick. The 4 Angus clubs benefited massively last season from being in the same division. They could punt hospitality massively and there was no shortage of firms looking for sponsorship opportunities. We don't have that option. We don't have the bigger companies looking for sponsorship opportunities. We've got a local community who'd rather drive to Ibrox or Parkhead than take in a game at their local ground. Throw in continuing difficulties with our absentee owners. We don't have the option of a rich benefactor punting money into the club like some others do.

No other option but to work our way out of the current problems. Easier said than done but the alternative is to let the club wither away. Not something that we're willing to do.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Mind when Chick Young was championing Jim Duffy for the Scotland job?
Wild.

Wild indeed.

I have no doubt that when Duffy does eventually leave that his old media pals will be praising him right, left and centre. They will be making every excuse they can for him building the worst squad in Scottish professional football - budget was terrible etc etc. If he stays and relegates us I guarantee you he will get zero criticism from any of them.

[spratte]

Wild indeed.

I have no doubt that when Duffy does eventually leave that his old media pals will be praising him right, left and centre. They will be making every excuse they can for him building the worst squad in Scottish professional football - budget was terrible etc etc. If he stays and relegates us I guarantee you he will get zero criticism from any of them.

Would have been a sight for sore eyes our squad from the start of last season against your current crop.

[lionel wickson]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

 

He's working with more than Aitken was last summer.

 

 

If that is the case, and given the background and "quality" of the new players signed, he must surely have some significant budget left? I'm pretty sure he is on record saying that he was surprised by just how much last year's squad were being paid. A larger budget than Aitken had for 2018/19, doesn't really square with us having the second smallest one in the league.

[Kenny Ashwood]

I'm not sure that it says the budget has been increased from last season, it more infers that they started with a very low budget for 2019-2020 and that it has been increased as a result of the commitment from the third party. The third party has also underwritten two loans to former directors (the guts of £100k I understand). I could be wrong but it would seem likely that the negotiations with, and contribution from the third party could explain the late submission of accounts. They were two months late and it may be that without agreement from the third party, the club would have been insolvent. It is illegal for an insolvent company to continue to trade and to accumulate more debt.  The problem in all this is that although the accounts give a snapshot, without a profit and loss account, we don't really know what the going concern situation is. There is however a very simple rule of thumb here and that is if a company's assets are worth more that the company is as a going concern , then that company's continuation is uncertain. None of this is the fault of either Jim Duffy or John Steele. Both would appear to be undertaking an almost impossible task in very difficult circumstances.

[Kenny Ashwood]

Excuse my ignorance,but who is the “third party” mentioned regarding the budget deficit etc?.