Sons' sorrow

[lorenzo71]

I was looking at the goalie and thinking what a shite keeper he is.3 of the goals easily saveable albeit his defence gave him no help.

[Jan Vojáček]

3 hours ago, McGarci said:

here you can watch a sumary 

 

 

Right. Now I've finally got a wee bit of time, lets take a look at Saturday...

First up some positives. I like Ryan Tierney. He's skilful, pretty decent at bringing others into play and looks like the kind of guy who will get 8-12 goals this season given a wee bit of service. I was pretty concerned after his fairly poor debut against Dundee United - but since then fair play to him, he's kicked on and performed pretty well. I can see him being a target for our support though - especially if we don't get someone to play alongside him because he's wee, pretty slow and won't win much in the air. Hopefully it doesn't come to that though.

I've also really taken to PJ Crossan. The guy has plenty of ability, is tenacious and aggressive and looks capable of creating moments of magic. He needs a fair bit of coaching to improve his decision making and final product, but there's a player there and I'm pleased we have him. The goal was actually really nicely worked, and it's no surprise at all that Tierney and Crossan were the two involved in the final stages.

Ok...The rest.

First up we cannot play 4-3-3 with the players we have imo. McKee/Hutton and Carsy are all trying to play in each other's position, and I lost count of the number of times you could've thrown a king size duvet over the trio. Our full-back options aren't great for that either. I've been impressed by Quitongo and Crawford (albeit he had a nightmare at Cappielow), but they're rookies playing alongside two centre-backs who look miles out of their depth (more on them later...). Stick a couple of wingers in front of them in a 4-4-2 and give them a bit of protection. Both look decent going forward, but every time they get the ball they've got nobody in front of them - and it means neither can really cross the halfway line at all. That's a shame because Crawford especially if a strong, quick guy when he's at full tilt. We've got options there too. McKee could play in the Forbes role, McCluskey is the sort of guy you'd want in front of you as a full-back, and the as-yet-unseen Matty Shiels seems, on paper, like the kind of player who'd be well suited to that sort of role.

The 4-3-3 on Saturday became a 4-0-3-0-3 far too often. There were enormous gaps between each bank of players and, to be totally honest, I'm not really sure how many of them understood where they were supposed to be. It was so narrow and disjointed.

It's pretty clear that our main issues lie at centre-half though. McGeever and Neill have so far looked like the worst pairing in there I think I've ever seen in a Sons strip. McGeever is slow, clumsy, struggles to judge a high ball and seems to be strolled round with ease by strikers. He was a smashing big player at Queen's Park a few years ago, but God knows what's happened. Alongside him big handsome Morgyn has looked miles out of his depth in every game bar the Annan match. He makes really daft mistakes, looks incredibly uncomfortable with the ball at his feet and struggled to even be dominant in the air on Saturday. 

What can we do about it? Well I hate to say it, but if he's going to play McKee, Carsy and Hutton every week then I think we're best to have Carsy in at centre-half. McMillan looked good against Annan, and is very vocal, but he struggled at the weekend and seems to struggle with his fitness. Could he work with Carsy? I'm not sure, but it might be worth a shot. Failing that stick one of the other two in and lets see how that goes.

Between the sticks Brennan has shown the sort of form Brechin fans warned us about. He was good last season; his handling was solid and he made a couple of excellent stops in his two appearances. However on Saturday and last week he was all over the shop. Especially dealing with crosses. I'd be inclined to give Pettigrew a shot - although I fear that goalkeeping may be an issue again this season unfortunately.

Another massive concern is Mati Zata. I wasn't convinced with his trial performances, but since signing he's gone downhill drastically. I've never seen a player look like he wants to get involved less. He's still very young (it's easy to forget he only turned 19 this year) but most of the other uninspiring guys we've signed at least want to get on the ball. Against Annan he looked lost in midfield (not his fault to be fair) but spent a lot of the game finding space where passing to him would be impossible or pointless. That continued against Morton and Queens, and him leaving the ball to go out for a throw-in to the visitors looked awfully like an attempt to avoid touching it.

I don't know if it's a confidence thing or what, but it's a worry.

I've not looked at the odds or anything, but I'd imagine we'll be favourites with the bookies to go down and - in discussing my season preview with another guy at work today - I'm struggling to tip anyone else for tenth. In saying that I tipped us for second last year, so I know very little about football!

In an ideal world we'll sign a Stuart Findlay-esque loanee defender and a Jon McShane-esque loanee striker before the real season starts. At the moment though I think I'd be tempted to go for something like this...Taking into account everything I've droned on about above.

Jordan Pettigrew

Lewis Crawford Jordan McMillan Stuart Carswell Rico Quitongo

Stefan McCluskey Joe McKee Kyle Hutton Matthew Shiels

PJ Crossan Ryan Tierney

Granted I've never seen Shiels play. Granted I've seen Pettigrew play for about 120 minutes and granted Crossan and Tierney aren't exactly a giant strikeforce...But it's got to be better than Saturday...Doesn't it?

Spoiler

Tl;dr version: We aren't very good and I'm quite worried about a few things.

 

[Boghead ranter]

40 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

McGeever and Neill have so far looked like the worst pairing in there I think I've ever seen in a Sons strip. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Tl;dr version: We aren't very good and I'm quite worried about a few things.

 

^^never witnessed Pat Cairney and Gary Dickie. ^^

[The Moonster]

I was camping at the weekend so was listening on the radio to the goals going in and I'd wondered what comical way we'd managed it this time. It's nice to look at the highlights and find that Brennan decided to play with his arms inside his jumper like some weird kid at school.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

2 hours ago, Jan Vojáček said:

Right. Now I've finally got a wee bit of time, lets take a look at Saturday...

First up some positives. I like Ryan Tierney. He's skilful, pretty decent at bringing others into play and looks like the kind of guy who will get 8-12 goals this season given a wee bit of service. I was pretty concerned after his fairly poor debut against Dundee United - but since then fair play to him, he's kicked on and performed pretty well. I can see him being a target for our support though - especially if we don't get someone to play alongside him because he's wee, pretty slow and won't win much in the air. Hopefully it doesn't come to that though.

I've also really taken to PJ Crossan. The guy has plenty of ability, is tenacious and aggressive and looks capable of creating moments of magic. He needs a fair bit of coaching to improve his decision making and final product, but there's a player there and I'm pleased we have him. The goal was actually really nicely worked, and it's no surprise at all that Tierney and Crossan were the two involved in the final stages.

Ok...The rest.

First up we cannot play 4-3-3 with the players we have imo. McKee/Hutton and Carsy are all trying to play in each other's position, and I lost count of the number of times you could've thrown a king size duvet over the trio. Our full-back options aren't great for that either. I've been impressed by Quitongo and Crawford (albeit he had a nightmare at Cappielow), but they're rookies playing alongside two centre-backs who look miles out of their depth (more on them later...). Stick a couple of wingers in front of them in a 4-4-2 and give them a bit of protection. Both look decent going forward, but every time they get the ball they've got nobody in front of them - and it means neither can really cross the halfway line at all. That's a shame because Crawford especially if a strong, quick guy when he's at full tilt. We've got options there too. McKee could play in the Forbes role, McCluskey is the sort of guy you'd want in front of you as a full-back, and the as-yet-unseen Matty Shiels seems, on paper, like the kind of player who'd be well suited to that sort of role.

The 4-3-3 on Saturday became a 4-0-3-0-3 far too often. There were enormous gaps between each bank of players and, to be totally honest, I'm not really sure how many of them understood where they were supposed to be. It was so narrow and disjointed.

It's pretty clear that our main issues lie at centre-half though. McGeever and Neill have so far looked like the worst pairing in there I think I've ever seen in a Sons strip. McGeever is slow, clumsy, struggles to judge a high ball and seems to be strolled round with ease by strikers. He was a smashing big player at Queen's Park a few years ago, but God knows what's happened. Alongside him big handsome Morgyn has looked miles out of his depth in every game bar the Annan match. He makes really daft mistakes, looks incredibly uncomfortable with the ball at his feet and struggled to even be dominant in the air on Saturday. 

What can we do about it? Well I hate to say it, but if he's going to play McKee, Carsy and Hutton every week then I think we're best to have Carsy in at centre-half. McMillan looked good against Annan, and is very vocal, but he struggled at the weekend and seems to struggle with his fitness. Could he work with Carsy? I'm not sure, but it might be worth a shot. Failing that stick one of the other two in and lets see how that goes.

Between the sticks Brennan has shown the sort of form Brechin fans warned us about. He was good last season; his handling was solid and he made a couple of excellent stops in his two appearances. However on Saturday and last week he was all over the shop. Especially dealing with crosses. I'd be inclined to give Pettigrew a shot - although I fear that goalkeeping may be an issue again this season unfortunately.

Another massive concern is Mati Zata. I wasn't convinced with his trial performances, but since signing he's gone downhill drastically. I've never seen a player look like he wants to get involved less. He's still very young (it's easy to forget he only turned 19 this year) but most of the other uninspiring guys we've signed at least want to get on the ball. Against Annan he looked lost in midfield (not his fault to be fair) but spent a lot of the game finding space where passing to him would be impossible or pointless. That continued against Morton and Queens, and him leaving the ball to go out for a throw-in to the visitors looked awfully like an attempt to avoid touching it.

I don't know if it's a confidence thing or what, but it's a worry.

I've not looked at the odds or anything, but I'd imagine we'll be favourites with the bookies to go down and - in discussing my season preview with another guy at work today - I'm struggling to tip anyone else for tenth. In saying that I tipped us for second last year, so I know very little about football!

In an ideal world we'll sign a Stuart Findlay-esque loanee defender and a Jon McShane-esque loanee striker before the real season starts. At the moment though I think I'd be tempted to go for something like this...Taking into account everything I've droned on about above.

Jordan Pettigrew

Lewis Crawford Jordan McMillan Stuart Carswell Rico Quitongo

Stefan McCluskey Joe McKee Kyle Hutton Matthew Shiels

PJ Crossan Ryan Tierney

Granted I've never seen Shiels play. Granted I've seen Pettigrew play for about 120 minutes and granted Crossan and Tierney aren't exactly a giant strikeforce...But it's got to be better than Saturday...Doesn't it?

  Hide contents

Tl;dr version: We aren't very good and I'm quite worried about a few things.

 

Playing Hutton ANYWHERE or in ANY formation is like running your PC without Norton or McAfee - he is the Scottish football's equivalent of The Blue Circle Of Death.

[RGD89]

Playing Hutton ANYWHERE or in ANY formation is like running your PC without Norton or McAfee - he is the Scottish football's equivalent of The Blue Circle Of Death.

Could not agree more.

[super-son]

2 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Playing Hutton ANYWHERE or in ANY formation is like running your PC without Norton or McAfee - he is the Scottish football's equivalent of The Blue Circle Of Death.

Let's not start this one again. We have far bigger problems than Hutton playing in midfield where he actually had not a bad game on Saturday.

Having seen us twice now... I think in terms of players, if the Central Defence and the Goalkeeper can get their act together then we will do not too badly this season. I'm not sure what the best formation will prove to be yet but I think that the midfield and striker options are far from disastrous and the 2 fullbacks will do just fine aswell. I'm hoping that Layne will provide a useful option of height upfront and will give us that option if needed. There are definitely some glimmers of hope from some of our players in among these horrible results and performances IMO.

We actually played some very nice football on the build up to our goal on Saturday which I hope to see some more of. 

With regards to the horrific performances by our Central Defenders and Goalkeeper, I'm struggling to fully blame Duffy for signing these guys as no player should be putting in performances that bad! I'm hoping they are a little rusty and within a couple of games they will get themselves up to match sharpness. (Please Please Please!)

With potentially another three loan players to come in, I would be hoping for a Winger, Striker and possibly a Centre Back. We do have quite a few players capable of covering but the competition would be nice to have.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Let's not start this one again. We have far bigger problems than Hutton playing in midfield where he actually had not a bad game on Saturday.
Having seen us twice now... I think in terms of players, if the Central Defence and the Goalkeeper can get their act together then we will do not too badly this season. I'm not sure what the best formation will prove to be yet but I think that the midfield and striker options are far from disastrous and the 2 fullbacks will do just fine aswell. I'm hoping that Layne will provide a useful option of height upfront and will give us that option if needed. There are definitely some glimmers of hope from some of our players in among these horrible results and performances IMO.
We actually played some very nice football on the build up to our goal on Saturday which I hope to see some more of. 
With regards to the horrific performances by our Central Defenders and Goalkeeper, I'm struggling to fully blame Duffy for signing these guys as no player should be putting in performances that bad! I'm hoping they are a little rusty and within a couple of games they will get themselves up to match sharpness. (Please Please Please!)
With potentially another three loan players to come in, I would be hoping for a Winger, Striker and possibly a Centre Back. We do have quite a few players capable of covering but the competition would be nice to have.

Jim Duffy started it all again - he re-signed him which I found frankly incredible. And I'm sorry, I can't agree with your assessment on Saturdays performance.

[super-son]

Jim Duffy started it all again - he re-signed him which I found frankly incredible. And I'm sorry, I can't agree with your assessment on Saturdays performance.

I'm not aware that I gave an assessment on Saturdays performance...

All I said was the build up to the goal was a nice bit of play. Which it was.

[Thommo90]

5 minutes ago, super-son said:

I'm not aware that I gave an assessment on Saturdays performance...

All I said was the build up to the goal was a nice bit of play. Which it was.

He probably means the comment on Hutton, you said he wasn't bad.  He was anonymous and does nothing to influence a game.  An utter shitehawk and a w**k of a guy into the bargain.

[Johnny Red]

He probably means the comment on Hutton, you said he wasn't bad.  He was anonymous and does nothing to influence a game.  An utter shitehawk and a w**k of a guy into the bargain.

Fake news

[super-son]

Just now, Thommo90 said:

He probably means the comment on Hutton, you said he wasn't bad.  He was anonymous and does nothing to influence a game.  An utter shitehawk and a w**k of a guy into the bargain.

There were multiple times during the game where put himself about and won the ball off of the QOTS midfield. One example where he done this very well is included in the highlights. Not every player is on the pitch to influence the game. Some players are quietly effective. If you go to the games with the same mindset that Hutton is pish and nothing will convince you otherwise then that's all you will see when your only focusing on mistakes or things he could have done better. Try changing your tinted specs for a game and see how you get on.

How exactly is he a w**nk of a guy?

[Johnny Red]

There were multiple times during the game where put himself about and won the ball off of the QOTS midfield. One example where he done this very well is included in the highlights. Not every player is on the pitch to influence the game. Some players are quietly effective. If you go to the games with the same mindset that Hutton is pish and nothing will convince you otherwise then that's all you will see when your only focusing on mistakes or things he could have done better. Try changing your tinted specs for a game and see how you get on.
How exactly is he a w**nk of a guy?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and that’s obviously his.

He might not me Ronaldo, but he does a lot in taking time out of his personal life to support initiatives with local youth teams in Dumbarton, which hasn’t been done in years by DFC.......but yeah, what a w**k.

[The Moonster]

4 minutes ago, super-son said:

There were multiple times during the game where put himself about and won the ball off of the QOTS midfield. One example where he done this very well is included in the highlights. Not every player is on the pitch to influence the game. Some players are quietly effective. If you go to the games with the same mindset that Hutton is pish and nothing will convince you otherwise then that's all you will see when your only focusing on mistakes or things he could have done better. Try changing your tinted specs for a game and see how you get on.

If Hutton was being quietly effective in his defensive midfield role, how the f**k have we conceded 10 goals in the last two games?

It's obviously not all Hutton's fault, but he doesn't offer protection to the back 4 and he doesn't create chances or goals. Add that to the fact he can barely run, I'm honestly amazed that any Sons fan thinks he's effective. Last year proved it, we moved Carswell to centre half and lost all bite in midfield.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

I'm not aware that I gave an assessment on Saturdays performance...

All I said was the build up to the goal was a nice bit of play. Which it was.

Sorry, I was referring to Hutton's performance, another masterclass in three-metre responsibility-shirking passes.

[super-son]

43 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

If Hutton was being quietly effective in his defensive midfield role, how the f**k have we conceded 10 goals in the last two games?

It's obviously not all Hutton's fault, but he doesn't offer protection to the back 4 and he doesn't create chances or goals. Add that to the fact he can barely run, I'm honestly amazed that any Sons fan thinks he's effective. Last year proved it, we moved Carswell to centre half and lost all bite in midfield.

I'm not saying I think he is amazing and he is not always 'quietly effective' but I'm fed up with people constantly bleeting on about how terrible he is when he is nowhere near the worst player in the team right now.

We have conceded 10 goals in 2 games mainly because our 2 central defenders and goalkeeper seem to be in competition to see who can f**k up the most during these games. Against QOTS Brennan literally slapped the ball into his own net and both defenders couldn't get near to any of the attackers and they had all the time and space in the world to do what they liked.

FWIW I completely agree that Carswell is the far superior player but I'm only pointing out that Hutton can sometimes be effective in the middle of the park and is nowhere near our worst performer atm. There are bigger things to be worrying about.

[optimistic]

Seems to me the centre halves and keeper are the issue, and it wasn’t that long ago, that carswell was being hounded out of st Mirren. I’m not a lover of having both on the park at the same time mind you. Carswell, although good at the back, is a waste for the team, but play one or the other with maybe McKee doing the creative stuff.

[super-son]

5 minutes ago, optimistic said:

Seems to me the centre halves and keeper are the issue, and it wasn’t that long ago, that carswell was being hounded out of st Mirren. I’m not a lover of having both on the park at the same time mind you. Carswell, although good at the back, is a waste for the team, but play one or the other with maybe McKee doing the creative stuff.

I'm not sure that him being hounded out of St Mirren is relevant. He has been with us for years now and he has won multiple POTY awards. We should be judging how he has played for us not what he was doing at St Mirren years ago.

Agree with the rest though.

[Thommo90]

1 hour ago, Johnny Red said:

 

Fake news

 

You're fake news

[Thommo90]

1 hour ago, Johnny Red said:

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and that’s obviously his.

He might not me Ronaldo, but he does a lot in taking time out of his personal life to support initiatives with local youth teams in Dumbarton, which hasn’t been done in years by DFC.......but yeah, what a w**k.

 

He is a w**k, that's coming from a personal thing away from his football performances.  I've tried my best not to let my personal opinion cloud my judgement on him as a player.