Sons' sorrow

[Silverton End]

1 hour ago, Nowhereman said:

Like you I have never felt that the local council have taken much of an interest in the affairs of DFC. Indeed they have often seemed to be a stumbling block. If the Council are happy to ease Brabco's way it makes their current investment in Clydebank's stadium all the more galling. For the amount that they are spending on that they could just about buy out Brabco's interest in DFC and then run the Rock as a community stadium.

Oi! Get yer own ideas, I posted that hours ago.

Plagiarism at its finest

[TheFarPost]

A big thank-you to everyone who came along last night, and especially those who pressed necessarily tough questions. There were 76 people present throughout the evening, more than two years ago and more than turned up to the pre-planning application consultation one 11th November. Almost half filled in the feedback forms, more people have emailed me, and we have further detailed comments and questions from the Trust Board and from our stadium working group, and of course from this forum. 

I'm putting all of that together and will make a fuller report as soon as possible. (There's a brief note up on the Trust website right now). I'm also doing a short article for the Lennox Herald this coming week, and commenting further to the Reporter. We're going to continue to make sure that fans' voices are heard loud and clear.

Following requests from the Trust, I gather that the new stadium plan boards will now be put up on the club website as PDFs. We'll do a link on the Trust website where people can leave further comments. We'll also work on an updatable Q&A. And of course I'll be feeding back everything that's being said to Brabco and the Club board. Ian Wilson said he's now willing to meet with the Trust board/working group, and we'll certainly take that up.   

One thing that's absolutely clear, by the way, is the deep disquiet at the idea that the club will not own the stadium. That's one of a number of crucial concerns that will be pursued very thoroughly. 

As I reported at the AGM, the Trust is looking to a number of further actions which will ensure that we are a robust and representative fans body capable not only of engaging fully with future developments on this stadium proposal, but also increasing our stakeholding in the club. Securing the club's future, the interests of fans and benefit for the community is our absolute priority. 

There's much more to be said and (more importantly) done, but I hope that gives an initial idea of how we're moving forward from last night's meeting. 

As I've said before, do private message me here if you want to. 

Best, Simon

Edited November 24, 2016 by TheFarPost

[Bankies Alive]

2 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

Like you I have never felt that the local council have taken much of an interest in the affairs of DFC. Indeed they have often seemed to be a stumbling block. If the Council are happy to ease Brabco's way it makes their current investment in Clydebank's stadium all the more galling. For the amount that they are spending on that they could just about buy out Brabco's interest in DFC and then run the Rock as a community stadium.

There is no investment in a stadium for Clydebank!

Holm Park which is council owned will be upgraded for use by the community which will include Yoker Athletic and Clydebank.Most of the cash will be spent on putting down a 3G pitch for use by everyone in Clydebank.

The problem with your current stadium is that its not available to the community.

I`m sure if you went to Sportscotland etc they`d part fund a 3G pitch for the stadium which would make it more of a commumity asset.

[Howlin' Wilf]

There is a lot to think about on the back of last night. The claims that the club could clear 300k from 'non football income' is a bold one indeed. Gross profits are fairly high in the hospitality industry, however it is very labour intensive. As a rough calculation, I'd reckon the turnover required to generate a net profit of 300k would be in the region of 1.5 million or even more. From what I gather, that figure (1.5m) is akin to around twelve times what the gross figure is for hospitality currently at CID. By Ian Wilson's own admission, it's approaching double DFC's entire turnover at present, which he pitched at 900k.

Office space is notoriously difficult to let in the Dumbarton area and doesn't achieve particularly high rental.

I'm not sure what the rental projections would be on 3g/4g pitches.

If there is a plus, then it is with the proposed training facilities.

However, the main concern has to be the viability of the plans and ability of Brabco to deliver them. If it were as presented in the artists' impressions and what was said last night, then hunky dory. However as a veteran of many planning presentations and artists' impressions in Dumbarton over the years, I've yet to see one come to full fruition.

When Gilbert Lawrie was involved I had faith that he would act in the club's best interests. He was obviously compromised by Brabco paying his wages but his track record at DFC as a director and indeed saviour was a good one. Whatever doubts were cast on his plans presented in 2014, I thought that they were worthy of consideration, given Gilbert's expertise in both football administration and property development, the latter in which, he had fairly stellar qualifications and experience

There is no such presence in Brabco's midst now.

Ian Wilson puts me in mind of a Neil Rankine who has been to finishing school.

The same insane messages but with a wee bit more finesse.

There is a crumb of comfort mind you. There was a sizeable element of Sons support that didn't think Rankine would deliver the stadium at the Rock............

 

 

 

 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

3 hours ago, TheFarPost said:

A big thank-you to everyone who came along last night, and especially those who pressed necessarily tough questions. There were 76 people present throughout the evening, more than two years ago and more than turned up to the pre-planning application consultation one 11th November. Almost half filled in the feedback forms, more people have emailed me, and we have further detailed comments and questions from the Trust Board and from our stadium working group, and of course from this forum. 

I'm putting all of that together and will make a fuller report as soon as possible. (There's a brief note up on the Trust website right now). I'm also doing a short article for the Lennox Herald this coming week, and commenting further to the Reporter. We're going to continue to make sure that fans' voices are heard loud and clear.

Following requests from the Trust, I gather that the new stadium plan boards will now be put up on the club website as PDFs. We'll do a link on the Trust website where people can leave further comments. We'll also work on an updatable Q&A. And of course I'll be feeding back everything that's being said to Brabco and the Club board. Ian Wilson said he's now willing to meet with the Trust board/working group, and we'll certainly take that up.   

One thing that's absolutely clear, buy the way, is the deep disquiet at the idea that the club will not own the stadium. That's one of a number of crucial concerns that will be pressed very hard. 

As I reported at the AGM, the Trust is looking to a number of further actions which will ensure that we are a robust and representative fans body capable not only of engaging fully with future developments on this stadium proposal, but also increasing our stakeholding in the club. Securing the club's future, the interests of fans and benefit for the community is our absolute priority. 

There's much more to be said and (more importantly) done, but I hope that gives an initial idea of how we're moving forward from last night's meeting. 

As I've said before, do private message me here if you want to. 

Best, Simon

Simon, a wee but very important point.  To your knowledge, is every member of the Dumbarton Football Club Board of Directors aware of Ian Wilson's revelation that should the new stadium development come to fruition then the Brabco Partnership would retain ownership of the new facility?

And if so, are they all in accord with this ?

Edited November 24, 2016 by O'Kelly Isley III

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

The 'dumped in the front row' is a fairly common complaint from our disabled fans, they much prefer elevated platforms, a facility that as you point out is very rarely offered.

Some utterly terrible grounds for disabled fans across the country, and I doubt the current ground is one of those, but that doesn't mean you have created an environment that offers equality for all.

In a perfect world we could create an environment that offers equality for all but unless ramps or specialised lifts were installed then unfortunately that's nigh on impossible. I fully appreciate that having the choice of an elevated view would be ideal but I'm not sure how clubs could make that work without the above happening, which would come at hefty cost and may not even be possible with some stadiums.

In terms of general access our stadium is absolutely fine and there are very few parts, if any, of the current facilities that cannot be accessed by our disabled supporters.

IMO our stadium is very accessible for disabled fans so to use it as an argument for building a new one is bonkers.

[Howlin' Wilf]

58 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Simon, a wee but very important point.  To your knowledge, is every member of the Dumbarton Football Club Board of Directors aware of Ian Wilson's revelation that should the new stadium development come to fruition then the Brabco Partnership would retain ownership ?

And if so, are they all in accord with this ?

It was me who asked the question about the exit strategy. I get the feeling that the answer came in the heat of the moment.

[cedrick1]

Overall last night as with a couple of weeks ago I was reasonably impressed with the stadium plans with facilities housing etc. I'm sorry but I just don't get where the funding is coming from and the sustainability of the project.

i was somewhat taken a back about Ian Wilson love of the sons and that it appears our ability to stay in at least the championship is a factor to his plans. Why then are Branco not doing everything in their power to create as much a chance as possible for stevie aitken and his squad to live the dream.

mr Wilton's comment about we need a striker was a cheap joke in the circumstances.

im interested to see where the project goes in terms of getting off the ground when this season ends 

still seems like fantasy to me

[O'Kelly Isley III]

33 minutes ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

It was me who asked the question about the exit strategy. I get the feeling that the answer came in the heat of the moment.

Sorry Wilf, I missed out a crucial phrase which I've now added to my original post.

 

[albundy]

Overall last night as with a couple of weeks ago I was reasonably impressed with the stadium plans with facilities housing etc. I'm sorry but I just don't get where the funding is coming from and the sustainability of the project.

i was somewhat taken a back about Ian Wilson love of the sons and that it appears our ability to stay in at least the championship is a factor to his plans. Why then are Branco not doing everything in their power to create as much a chance as possible for stevie aitken and his squad to live the dream.

mr Wilton's comment about we need a striker was a cheap joke in the circumstances.

im interested to see where the project goes in terms of getting off the ground when this season ends 

still seems like fantasy to me

This is exactly the point. Allegedly Brabco's float for working capital at the club has been buttons over their 8 year tenure, if they rely on our championship status or were interested in the footballing side, surely they would be investing in that.

The game is simple here, dangle the carrot of full time football and a bigger ground (the shiny) and that will misdirect the fans/public from the fact that the only people who walk away from the fruition of the new ground with any security are brabco. The alleged Money for a full time team will need to be self generated based on projections from the new facilities which I assume brabco will also own but leave dfc to maintain/run.

[TheFarPost]

2 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Simon, a wee but very important point.  To your knowledge, is every member of the Dumbarton Football Club Board of Directors aware of Ian Wilson's revelation that should the new stadium development come to fruition then the Brabco Partnership would retain ownership of the new facility?

And if so, are they all in accord with this ?

Good question. Until recently I was still under the impression that the proposal was that the new stadium would be owned by the club. So I don't know the views of all the directors on the latest position, but we will get this attended to promptly. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by TheFarPost

[Howlin' Wilf]

Good question. Until recently I was still under the impression that the proposal was that the new stadium would be owned by the club. So I don't know the views of all the directors on the latest position, but we will get this attended to promptly. 

If you check my posts after the last consultation, the plan always was that it would be a peppercorn rent. It was Gilbert himself who told me. The club subsequently denied that this was the case but I'm very clear what was said.
The revelation on Thursday was that Wilson announced that Brabco intended to remain in charge of the club post project. I felt that bit was just made up in the heat of the moment.

[BallochSonsFan]

Thats the key difference now Wilf. They've now admitted publicly that Dumbarton will not own the new stadium. 

Its one thing telling individual fans that we'd be tenants in the new ground and hoping that the news doesnt spread. It's another to have the director responsible for the project admit it at a fans meeting to everybody assembled.

Theres absolutely no way to spin this in their favour. The club won't own the new ground and that is massively concerning. I'd expect the journalists in attendance will have some interesting things to say in print in the coming days.

[Howlin' Wilf]

Good question. Until recently I was still under the impression that the proposal was that the new stadium would be owned by the club. So I don't know the views of all the directors on the latest position, but we will get this attended to promptly. 

For the sake of clarity, even if 'the club' owns the stadium, Brabco are the de facto owners. If that were not so, then we wouldn't be facing the situation that we do with the current stadium. There would actually be more security of tenure were there to be a 99 year lease at a peppercorn rent. As long as there is heritable property as an asset of the club then there is a risk the majority shareholder can sell it.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

20 minutes ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

For the sake of clarity, even if 'the club' owns the stadium, Brabco are the de facto owners. If that were not so, then we wouldn't be facing the situation that we do with the current stadium. There would actually be more security of tenure were there to be a 99 year lease at a peppercorn rent. As long as there is heritable property as an asset of the club then there is a risk the majority shareholder can sell it.

So how does the Golden Share fit in all of this ?  I thought that was intended to provide security of tenure for the club, something that would be lost on existing the present ground, no ?  And is it the case that the Golden Share would require to be 'set aside' to allow Brabco to proceed with their present plan ?

[Howlin' Wilf]

When I was appointed chairman of the company which holds the 'golden share', all the legal work had been done. The first thing I noticed was that all the focus was on protection of the sale of the stadium. There was nothing in place to protect the sale of the club. If and it still is a big if, the Dalmoak plan goes ahead, a 99 year lease at a peppercorn rent with a safeguard in place of some kind to protect the club would be the best model.

[The Moonster]

14 minutes ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

When I was appointed chairman of the company which holds the 'golden share', all the legal work had been done. The first thing I noticed was that all the focus was on protection of the sale of the stadium. There was nothing in place to protect the sale of the club. If and it still is a big if, the Dalmoak plan goes ahead, a 99 year lease at a peppercorn rent with a safeguard in place of some kind to protect the club would be the best model.

I'm surprised you think that's the best model, Wilf. I just can't agree. As Balloch Sons Fan has said, would the tenant farmers agree? They seemingly had it safeguarded by the government and are now at the mercy of land owners. I honestly think it would be absolute madness to hand over our only asset in exchange for 3 pieces of what might be silver but could also be shite.

[Howlin' Wilf]

So how does the Golden Share fit in all of this ?  I thought that was intended to provide security of tenure for the club, something that would be lost on existing the present ground, no ?  And is it the case that the Golden Share would require to be 'set aside' to allow Brabco to proceed with their present plan ?

The golden share prevents the sale of the company's heritable assets which gives a measure of protection from an unscrupulous owner. What it wouldn't prevent would be for an owner to voluntary liquidate the club. In that case the football stadium would be redundant.

[lorenzo71]

Excuse my ignorance but is Youngs farm the ONLY feasible site for a new stadium??Who owns the land and how much will it cost to buy??Are there any cost effective alternatives??

[Howlin' Wilf]

I'm surprised you think that's the best model, Wilf. I just can't agree. As Balloch Sons Fan has said, would the tenant farmers agree? They seemingly had it safeguarded by the government and are now at the mercy of land owners. I honestly think it would be absolute madness to hand over our only asset in exchange for 3 pieces of what might be silver but could also be shite.

Maybe you missed the point Moonster. Apart from the imperfect golden share, what protection has owning our stadium had for DFC? As for tenant farmers, if they have a lease they are secure. Unfortunately if the lease runs out that is a problem. That is why I'm suggesting a 99 year lease which is generally the longest lease granted.