Sons' sorrow

[albundy]

Got it [emoji4]

Ian Rankine [emoji5]

[pleslie99]

Would it be totally surprising if big Ian pulled a sickie tomorrow??

[Silverton End]

8 hours ago, aftershocker said:

I'm not quite sure what relevance a former director being disqualified from being a director has on the new stadium proposals

I have an open mind on the plans.....they look good.....no major surprise there, and I do have questions needing answered regarding financial implications for the team, not temporary ground sharing etc

It does seem to me however that a lot of people have already decided that this is bad and just want to heckle the board members

If the answers are not forthcoming, then fair enough, but let's at least hear what they have to say

It would be interesting to know if the main opponents were also against moving from Boghead

 

Your last sentence there, re - Boghead. This is a totally different scenario, as in, our current Ground is fit enough for purpose.

Boghead became run-down, the at the time, owner/ incumbents never maintained the basic stuff like maintenance, painting, or the upkeep of the terracing on the far side of the Ground (opposite Main Stand), crowds were poor, the team were poor, and when Miller Homes come along and offer £4-5m for the land, there's only going to be one answer.

Do I miss Boghead, yes, very much so, as it had character, atmosphere  & was our home.

Don't be confused with fans not wanting to leave Boghead, as to what could potentially happen to DFC in the near future please.

Personally I can't see this move to Dalmoak happening, I believe that Community activists will ultimately help prevent a move which could be the death knell for The Sons. 

 

[Sons Fan]

7 hours ago, Silverton End said:

Your last sentence there, re - Boghead. This is a totally different scenario, as in, our current Ground is fit enough for purpose.

Boghead became run-down, the at the time, owner/ incumbents never maintained the basic stuff like maintenance, painting, or the upkeep of the terracing on the far side of the Ground (opposite Main Stand), crowds were poor, the team were poor, and when Miller Homes come along and offer £4-5m for the land, there's only going to be one answer.

Do I miss Boghead, yes, very much so, as it had character, atmosphere  & was our home.

Don't be confused with fans not wanting to leave Boghead, as to what could potentially happen to DFC in the near future please.

Personally I can't see this move to Dalmoak happening, I believe that Community activists will ultimately help prevent a move which could be the death knell for The Sons. 

 

I'm interested when people say our stadium is "fit for purpose"

My question is, is it really?

Yes, we have an all seater stadium, decent standard, good hospitality suite and supporters bar( for home fans) and  as far as I understands the stadium is paid off so we don't have that debt over our head.

Now if we take a step back and look at the flaws.

We can't expand our stadium if we need to or want to.

We don't have our own training facilities for the first team let alone our youth teams.

Our pitch has a slope/ dip at one end.

We don't have great facilities for disabled people.

Due to the setup our supporters bar can only take home fans.

In the winter its freezing from the wind of the Clyde,on that note when the wind is up the ball can have a mind of its own. 

Now I have no doubt we could fix some of the issue above at our ground just now but and a big BUT if we can move and it doesn't cost the club a great deal of money, we are protected when moving and we get a potentially better deal facilities wise then I think we should go for it.

The stadium being by the castle hold no centimental value to me and for purely selfish reasons it would be easier to get to if it was just of the bypass than were it is now. 

Again BUT I haven't seen the plans etc so that's why I'm going to head to the Rock tonight and see it all and ask any relevant questions.

I hope that tonight will see a large turn out and a resonable debate. My fear is that it won't be.

[Jan Vojáček]

I'm interested when people say our stadium is "fit for purpose"

My question is, is it really?

Yes, we have an all seater stadium, decent standard, good hospitality suite and supporters bar( for home fans) and  as far as I understands the stadium is paid off so we don't have that debt over our head.

Now if we take a step back and look at the flaws.

We can't expand our stadium if we need to or want to.

We don't have our own training facilities for the first team let alone our youth teams.

Our pitch has a slope/ dip at one end.

We don't have great facilities for disabled people.

Due to the setup our supporters bar can only take home fans.

In the winter its freezing from the wind of the Clyde,on that note when the wind is up the ball can have a mind of its own. 

Now I have no doubt we could fix some of the issue above at our ground just now but and a big BUT if we can move and it doesn't cost the club a great deal of money, we are protected when moving and we get a potentially better deal facilities wise then I think we should go for it.

The stadium being by the castle hold no centimental value to me and for purely selfish reasons it would be easier to get to if it was just of the bypass than were it is now. 

Again BUT I haven't seen the plans etc so that's why I'm going to head to the Rock tonight and see it all and ask any relevant questions.

I hope that tonight will see a large turn out and a resonable debate. My fear is that it won't be.

'And if it does not cost the club a great deal of money' - the move should not cost the club a single penny.

[The Moonster]

6 minutes ago, Sons Fan said:

I'm interested when people say our stadium is "fit for purpose"

My question is, is it really?

Yes, we have an all seater stadium, decent standard, good hospitality suite and supporters bar( for home fans) and  as far as I understands the stadium is paid off so we don't have that debt over our head.

Now if we take a step back and look at the flaws.

We can't expand our stadium if we need to or want to.

We don't have our own training facilities for the first team let alone our youth teams.

Our pitch has a slope/ dip at one end.

We don't have great facilities for disabled people.

Due to the setup our supporters bar can only take home fans.

In the winter its freezing from the wind of the Clyde,on that note when the wind is up the ball can have a mind of its own. 

Now I have no doubt we could fix some of the issue above at our ground just now but and a big BUT if we can move and it doesn't cost the club a great deal of money, we are protected when moving and we get a potentially better deal facilities wise then I think we should go for it.

The stadium being by the castle hold no centimental value to me and for purely selfish reasons it would be easier to get to if it was just of the bypass than were it is now. 

Again BUT I haven't seen the plans etc so that's why I'm going to head to the Rock tonight and see it all and ask any relevant questions.

I hope that tonight will see a large turn out and a resonable debate. My fear is that it won't be.

Why do we need to, or why would we want to expand a stadium which we have filled about twice since moving in? It comfortably houses our home fans every week regardless of opposition. We've comfortably housed Hibs, Dundee United, Hearts and various other big sides without problem. Only during the Rangers visits did we really see any problems, visits that we all imagine won't be happening too often.

Training facilities, we're doing pretty well right now without owning our own training complex. Is that really a priority of a part time club? How many part time clubs have their own facilities? I assume we pay the going rate for the training pitch we use, I doubt it breaks our bank. Building, running and maintaining your own training pitches has a far higher cost and risk involved.

I'm not sure what facilities we don't have for disabled people, everything is on ground level and there aren't any obstacles for them. I don't think we have a designated area for them to watch the game but that's easy fixed. In any case, there are quite a few disabled guys who sit near us up the back as they like to sing along, perhaps they don't want a disabled area. It's not really a reason for moving.

Supporters bar I agree it would be good if away fans could use it but again I don't see it as a reason for building a new ground. We've let away fans in the bar before too, I reckon if there's a will to make that work we could but I may be wrong there.

There's been a handful of games where the wind has made it a farce. In winter, is it any warmer in a field half way to Renton? I doubt it. 

The move will cost at least £13.5 million to the club. It's a massive project for us to take on.

I don't see any reason why we won't have a reasonable debate tonight.

 

[Sweet Pete]

The pitch has a dip, so let's steamroller the whole stadium and build a new one which we may or may not actually own outside the town proper. Guid wan, mate.

[Jan Vojáček]

As you know Sons Fan I have a stupidly good memory for pointless info and I thought I remembered you being involved in a stadium debate a few years back.

Sure enough, I was right. It would appear you've been strongly in favour of a move from the start, and a big supporter of Brabco. If some of us are blinkered against the stadium idea, perhaps you are blinkered in favour of such a plan.

[Jan Vojáček]

The link in my post will take you way back to the early(ish) days of Sons' Sorrow. Interesting debate from 2014 in there....

[Bankies Alive]

Worrying times for you all.

The main question i'd be asking is what will happen if the new stadium doesn't get the go ahead.

The people involved seem to have little/no interest in the club so you have to wonder how they intend to get their money back or indeed turn a profit on their investment.

Good luck and keep asking awkward questions!

 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

I'm interested when people say our stadium is "fit for purpose"

My question is, is it really?

Yes, we have an all seater stadium, decent standard, good hospitality suite and supporters bar( for home fans) and  as far as I understands the stadium is paid off so we don't have that debt over our head.

Now if we take a step back and look at the flaws.

We can't expand our stadium if we need to or want to.

We don't have our own training facilities for the first team let alone our youth teams.

Our pitch has a slope/ dip at one end.

We don't have great facilities for disabled people.

Due to the setup our supporters bar can only take home fans.

In the winter its freezing from the wind of the Clyde,on that note when the wind is up the ball can have a mind of its own. 

Now I have no doubt we could fix some of the issue above at our ground just now but and a big BUT if we can move and it doesn't cost the club a great deal of money, we are protected when moving and we get a potentially better deal facilities wise then I think we should go for it.

The stadium being by the castle hold no centimental value to me and for purely selfish reasons it would be easier to get to if it was just of the bypass than were it is now. 

Again BUT I haven't seen the plans etc so that's why I'm going to head to the Rock tonight and see it all and ask any relevant questions.

I hope that tonight will see a large turn out and a resonable debate. My fear is that it won't be.

Ok, lets debunk some of your above points.

1. We neither need nor want to expand our stadium. We've officially sold out our current 'not fit for purpose' a total of THREE times since its existance. Once on the opening game against Rangers (non-competitive), once against Hearts and once against Rangers 2.0 (both competitive). I remember there being some fairly busy games over that strange period when Rangers and Hearts were in our league but I only remember 2 official sell outs. A unique situation that will be hugely unlikely to occur again.

2. What part-time club needs their own training facilities? We seem fine with our current training set up. Considering 95% of our squad is outwith the local area I always thought training in Glasgow was more appealing when it came to securing signatures during the summer.

3. It may be expensive, but surely fixing the slope/dip is the obvious answer to that. I know work has been done in the past and been fairly unsuccessful but I assume it can be fixed hence why we are trying to punt the land to house builders. If it's too expensive then leave it. It's stayed much the same for a while now. It's certainly no reason to move stadiuns.

4. We don't have great facitilities for disabled people? That simply isn't true. There is a ramp at the season ticket entrance and after that the ENTIRE stadium is at ground floor level. Disabled fans can access via the ramp and sit in the front row, akin to every other footballing venue in the country. Perhaps a bigger cubicle would be handy but other than that I fail to see one single issue.

5. This issue is down to the use of toilet facilities/health and safety. Whilst away fans in the bar would be nice we make no money based on how many people are in the bar because we are incapable of maximising the potential of our facilities. Therefore I could not give two shits how many bodies are buying pints from a bar that lines someone elses pocket. Absolutely not a reason or valid argument to put forward for moving stadium.

6. Are you seriously suggesting the WEATHER should be taken into consideration here? Do you know for a fact that the wind is less severe at Youngs Farm? I mean Youngs Farm is a notorious flood zone so lets not talk about weather here. Wilson and co may tell us where we are building wont be affected by floods, but we live here, we drive past and see it flooded with our own eyes. I fail to see how we'd manage to fit all of these shiny new facilities into the tiny corner that remained unflooded the last time the Leven burst it banks.

What makes you think it wont be a reasonable debate? The Trust have handled this whole thing impeccably, their statements give of an air of professionalism and everything they say screams 'level headed'. Have others been causing issues and behaving argumentative/aggressively? Believe it or not the one who came across badly at the Abbotsford meeting was not the fans, or Roddy the planning guy, but Mr Jardine. Very defensive when faced with a difficult question and I found his tone condescending at times. Lets hope he's on better form tonight.

[TheFarPost]

This from today's Herald. The story will also be in the Evening News: http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14921260.Former_Dumbarton_FC_owner_is_banned_from_the_boardroom/

The Sonstrust board is consulting about the situation ahead of this evening's meeting. We are unlikely to issue a further statement until after the AGM and general meeting, as we want to hear from as many fans as possible first. This makes tonight even more important. 

Simon

Edited November 23, 2016 by TheFarPost

[Nowhereman]

2 hours ago, Bankies Alive said:

Worrying times for you all.

The main question i'd be asking is what will happen if the new stadium doesn't get the go ahead.

The people involved seem to have little/no interest in the club so you have to wonder how they intend to get their money back or indeed turn a profit on their investment.

Good luck and keep asking awkward questions!

 

That is undoubtedly the biggest concern. It's all very well being against a move but no move may be even worse. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

1 hour ago, Nowhereman said:

That is undoubtedly the biggest concern. It's all very well being against a move but no move may be even worse. 

Maybe in terms of Brabco looking to cut and run, but with the present site's value having plummeted due to the need to spend a fortune remediating the site for house building that avenue may now be closed to them.  That doesn't mean however that the best course of action is to embark on an over-ambitious (IMO) plan which will leave DFC mortgaged to the hilt in future.

I repeat; Brabco needs this project more than DFC, but dare I suggest that rather than pursue the big Cala mansion they consider doing up their own place instead ?  Put it another way, let them build the number of 'Denny Homes' they require to recoup their investment adjacent to the present ground then invite them to actively market the majority shareholding to people with the football interests at heart.  Let's call it the GTF Option.

You may hear more of that this evening.

[TheFarPost]

2 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

That is undoubtedly the biggest concern [the new stadium not being built]. It's all very well being against a move but no move may be even worse. 

There are going to be big issues to face either way, frankly. The idea that everything will be cosy with the status quo underestimates the challenges we face in our current location. I'll say something about that at the AGM tonight (before the General Meeting about the stadium). 

So: AGM 7pm, general members' meeting about the stadium 7.30pm, at the Rock Bowling Club this evening.... just in case anyone hasn't got the message!

Simon

[Jan Vojáček]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/dumbarton-fc-fans-grill-club-9315379

Quote

“It would be great to continue the communication which we started during the public consultation period.

Must've missed that communication, Ian.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Sonsteam of 08

[BallochSonsFan]

In fairness there was communication. Wilson was available at the Friday consultation day.

It would have been far better had he made himself available on the Saturday. Restricting the consultation to the Friday, ending the consultation session at 7pm and holding the event on the day that Scotland played England could be argued as limiting fans chance to engage.

Tonight starts a major charm offensive by our owners. It's important that we cut through the PR niceties and get to the heart of the concerns that fans have regarding the proposed stadium move.

[untitled00]

So, not actually owning this proposed new stadium is a huge deal breaker for me. The fact that it would be owned by Brabco rather than DFC leaves us completely at the mercy of our investors - and no matter how much they proclaim that their current priorities with the club are noble, things change.

I would like to see the Trust push that as part of the proposed deal for this new ground that should DFC cease to exist that the ability to have effectively a rent free agreement for the stadium would default to the Sonstrust. As I'm sure if we have a worst case scenario ever we're to happen and we go out of business that the Trust (and its members) would seek to create a new club.

However I can't stress enough that not owning the stadium is a major problem. - at least for me.

Also noticed that what Brabco are getting out of this was never satisfactorily answered...

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

First off well done to the Trust for organising this evenings meeting.

I found Wilson a bit of a mixed bag. Some things he said were straight up offensive and condescending and other things people would've found re-assuring. For him to claim that anyone who isn't on board with his vision is lacking ambition/doesn't care about the future of this club is frankly ridiculous and I felt like choke slamming him through the pool table at that point. Thankfully he wasn't quite as condescending after that.

Some good questions were fothcoming after that and I was quite shocked to hear that DFC wouldn't own the stadium. Unless that changes I will be dead against this, regardless of 'agreements' or 'legally binding contracts' that say we can use said stadium until we cease to exist.

I found it bizarre that the 'noisy neighbours' pish was spouted yet we plan to find our new stadium by selling residential plots to house builders. If I was Ian I would've avoided that nonsense.

In all honesty I could go on all night picking holes in their fantasy proposals and chat. Full-time, Premier League, trust me despite not showing my face for the last decade etc etc.

Tonight was hugely beneficial in me cementing my opinion of being so unbelievably against every singular aspect of this move.

[Jan Vojáček]

1 minute ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

First off well done to the Trust for organising this evenings meeting.

I found Wilson a bit of a mixed bag. Some things he said were straight up offensive and condescending and other things people would've found re-assuring. For him to claim that anyone who isn't on board with his vision is lacking ambition/doesn't care about the future of this club is frankly ridiculous and I felt like choke slamming him through the pool table at that point. Thankfully he wasn't quite as condescending after that.

Some good questions were fothcoming after that and I was quite shocked to hear that DFC wouldn't own the stadium. Unless that changes I will be dead against this, regardless of 'agreements' or 'legally binding contracts' that say we can use said stadium until we cease to exist.

I found it bizarre that the 'noisy neighbours' pish was spouted yet we plan to find our new stadium by selling residential plots to house builders. If I was Ian I would've avoided that nonsense.

In all honesty I could go on all night picking holes in their fantasy proposals and chat. Full-time, Premier League, trust me despite not showing my face for the last decade etc etc.

Tonight was hugely beneficial in me cementing my opinion of being so unbelievably against every singular aspect of this move.

 

Can't add anything to this. Anyone who is still in favour of the proposals after that meeting must be extremely trusting/gullible.

Well done to everyone who questioned him, and well done to everyone who turned up - it seemed a decent turnout. I did enjoy going all Paxman on him with my question.

Also, why did he come in without a tie on, go to the loo and then wrap his tie around his neck but not actually do it up? That was very weird.