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2 minutes ago, lionel wickson said:

Wow, you couldn't make this stuff up if you tried. Maybe they'll add a monorail.

We'll need a song first. To be fair there is a big difference between what Andrew Hosie has done and what Ian Wilson has done. Common factor is of course greed.

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I'm not quite sure what relevance a former director being disqualified from being a director has on the new stadium proposals

I have an open mind on the plans.....they look good.....no major surprise there, and I do have questions needing answered regarding financial implications for the team, not temporary ground sharing etc

It does seem to me however that a lot of people have already decided that this is bad and just want to heckle the board members

If the answers are not forthcoming, then fair enough, but let's at least hear what they have to say

It would be interesting to know if the main opponents were also against moving from Boghead


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33 minutes ago, aftershocker said:

I'm not quite sure what relevance a former director being disqualified from being a director has on the new stadium proposals

I have an open mind on the plans.....they look good.....no major surprise there, and I do have questions needing answered regarding financial implications for the team, not temporary ground sharing etc

It does seem to me however that a lot of people have already decided that this is bad and just want to heckle the board members

If the answers are not forthcoming, then fair enough, but let's at least hear what they have to say

It would be interesting to know if the main opponents were also against moving from Boghead

 

I was a ballboy when we moved stadium so I can't really comment on Boghead but I think most were in agreement a move was needed. The argument this time is that it isn't exactly needed and the stories being revealed calls into question the probity of those running this project. Andy Hosie may not be a director any more but his link to this project and past dealings with the club are absolutely important. 

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1 hour ago, aftershocker said:

I'm not quite sure what relevance a former director being disqualified from being a director has on the new stadium proposals

I have an open mind on the plans.....they look good.....no major surprise there, and I do have questions needing answered regarding financial implications for the team, not temporary ground sharing etc

It does seem to me however that a lot of people have already decided that this is bad and just want to heckle the board members

If the answers are not forthcoming, then fair enough, but let's at least hear what they have to say

It would be interesting to know if the main opponents were also against moving from Boghead

 

If you're not quite sure of the relevance of these revelations (which are not surprising in the least, frankly) then I'd respectfully suggest that you are somewhat naïve.

This is not simply a case of shout happy rabble rousers looking for any old excuse to have a good old harrumph. Were this move in any way necessary for the club then it would have popular backing. This is pure profiteering by speculators who care not a jot for our little club, and whose only concern is to line their own pockets.

Make absolutely no mistake, these people are not in this for the benefit of Dumbarton Football Club, the town, the fans or the area. We MUST be vigilant. If there are not rock solid guarantees that Dumbarton FC will benefit both short and long term from this deal, not to mention proper justification for the very suggestion of this move in the first place, then the fans, the Trust, the Council (yes, I know...), the town, the county et al must refuse this.

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Having had a decent read of Hosie and Wilson's business history, I'm beginning to see a trend. Let's see if anyone else can spot it too.

Hosie

Bet Butler Ltd - Liquidation

BetClearer Ltd - Dissolved

Zodds Ltd - Dissolved

Affordable Millionaire Koh Samui Ltd - Dissolved

AM Estepona 0633 Ltd - Dissolved

Sports Reward Marketing Ltd - Dissolved

Gambling Insight Ltd - Administration

Denny's Homes Ltd (wonder whatever happened to them....) - Still active, although I have built as many houses as they have

Brabco 736 Ltd - Still active

Investors in Sport Ltd - Liquidation

Aphrodite Associates Ltd - Dissolved

Investing in Sport (Transaction) Ltd - Dissolved

Investors in Cricket Ltd - Dissolved

Everton in the Community - Still active

Jan IP Limited - Still active, formed last month

Vision Sports Investor Ltd - Dissolved

Football Villages Ltd - Liquidation

Harrogate Homes Direct Ltd - Dissolved

Technology Solutions Direct Ltd - Dissolved

Colbuy Ltd - Dissolved

Wilson

Ensured Gambling Outcomes Limited - Dissolved

BetClearer Limited - Dissolved

Dumbarton Football Club Limited - Still Active

Sensible Narrative Limited - Dissolved

Q Bricks Holding Limited - Dissolved

Midnight Memory Limited - Dissolved

As I have said before, I'm not business expert. However almost all of those directorships share something in common. Something that makes me very wary about these people's involvement with our football club.

In answer to your earlier point, Aftershocker, I don't think you can compare this with leaving Boghead. I was born in '97 and as such have absolutely no memories at all of Boghead, nor of the fans take on moving. From what I've gathered though it became an unusable dump that would've cost an absolute fortune to make anywhere near acceptable (am I being harsh?). Currently we have a smashing wee stadium, in a smashing location that is just perfect for our needs. As Pete says it's not being negative, it's about examining what they are offering us very, very closely.

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If you're not quite sure of the relevance of these revelations (which are not surprising in the least, frankly) then I'd respectfully suggest that you are somewhat naïve.

This is not simply a case of shout happy rabble rousers looking for any old excuse to have a good old harrumph. Were this move in any way necessary for the club then it would have popular backing. This is pure profiteering by speculators who care not a jot for our little club, and whose only concern is to line their own pockets.

Make absolutely no mistake, these people are not in this for the benefit of Dumbarton Football Club, the town, the fans or the area. We MUST be vigilant. If there are not rock solid guarantees that Dumbarton FC will benefit both short and long term from this deal, not to mention proper justification for the very suggestion of this move in the first place, then the fans, the Trust, the Council (yes, I know...), the town, the county et al must refuse this.


Except there are a fair amount of shout happy rabble rousers against the proposal.....to be fair most of the opposition on here is measured and thoughtful

Personally, I take very little interest in the comings and goings of the board of directors....they generally seem very remote from our club....or indeed most businesses, but I would guess the current lot did take us out of Rankine's sticky mits?

I fully accept that from a supporters point of view, there appears no real need to relocate, and indeed staying in the east end of town, it will actually be inconvenient for me personally

One of the questions I will be interested in hearing an answer to though, is who will get the income from the new training pitches. I would guess if the club , rather than Brabco, were to be able to invest the profits in the team, this is surely beneficial

All I really want is for the proposals to get fair and genuine scrutiny , rather than the current daily record response from some

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14 minutes ago, aftershocker said:


Except there are a fair amount of shout happy rabble rousers against the proposal.....to be fair most of the opposition on here is measured and thoughtful

Personally, I take very little interest in the comings and goings of the board of directors....they generally seem very remote from our club....or indeed most businesses, but I would guess the current lot did take us out of Rankine's sticky mits?

I fully accept that from a supporters point of view, there appears no real need to relocate, and indeed staying in the east end of town, it will actually be inconvenient for me personally

One of the questions I will be interested in hearing an answer to though, is who will get the income from the new training pitches. I would guess if the club , rather than Brabco, were to be able to invest the profits in the team, this is surely beneficial

All I really want is for the proposals to get fair and genuine scrutiny , rather than the current daily record response from some
 

Doesn't the very fact that they've been remote from the club put seven shades of shite up you, especially when you see the majority of their companies have been liquidated in the past? I know it does for me. 

They may have taken us out of Rankine's sticky mits, but it's not exactly evident that the mits we're currently in are any less sticky.

The board of directors are responsible for the health of the club, as supporters we must scrutinise who these people are, their motives and what is best for the club. To "take very little interest" in that aspect of the club is irresponsible in my opinion. 

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Its an unavoidable part of modern football that fans can no longer blindly trust the board of directors at their football club. That's absolutely not to say that the board members of Dumbarton FC are crooks - clearly they're not - but it's no longer the case that the board is made up of a collection of long term club servants rewarded with a tie and blazer and a dram in the board room on matchday and local philanthropists looking to give something back to their community club. Modern football boards are a complex mix of people with their own agendas and sadly these don't always match the overarching demands of the football club. Particularly when there's serious money involved.

Brabco, and by extension Dumbarton FC, are asking fans to put a lot of faith in a proposal that will radically reshape the future of the club. For better or for worse. Stories like the ones in today's Reporter certainly cast doubt on the judgement of the people involved. Thats not to say that we should be out with the pitchforks and burning torches, but there's a clear need for transparency in an effort to earn trust. If Ian Wilson wants to earn the trust of the Dumbarton support then there's a need for him to provide candid answers to the many questions that fans have.

Alan Jardine stood up at the last open meeting at the Abbotsford Hotel and said that there was a line in the sand that he would not cross. He was adamant that he would resign from the club board rather than allow a move that was detrimental to the club's future. Whilst such grandstanding gestures grab attention, I'd be asking further questions of the Dumbarton board. Like how we've managed to get ourselves into a position where our owners are telling us that the new stadium development is the only way to secure a viable future for the club? Or why we're unable to tap into at least some of the 300,000 riches that will supposedly be on offer if we move to the site at Youngs Farm? Ian Wilson and Brabco are, by and large, seen as he bogeymen hiding under the bed. We don't know them. They haven't previously engaged with us. We've seen stories in the press that put us on edge. And now they want us to uproot to another new ground that will undoubtedly mean a major change for the club. Our local football club directors have been conspicuous with their relative silence over recent years.

The sad part of modern football is that fans have to be constantly vigilant. It's only by asking questions, demanding answers and holding directors to account that we can play an active part in securing the future of our football club. 

It's why tomorrow's AGM is such an important event and why I hope to see fans take the chance to ask those questions and demand those answers. 

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1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

The sad part of modern football is that fans have to be constantly vigilant. It's only by asking questions, demanding answers and holding directors to account that we can play an active part in securing the future of our football club. 

It's why tomorrow's AGM is such an important event and why I hope to see fans take the chance to ask those questions and demand those answers. 

Well said, BallochSonsFan -- I really hope we'll get a great turnout tomorrow night (23rd) at the Rock Bowling Club. That in itself will send out a significant message.

You'll get some important background info at the AGM from 7.00 - 7.30pm, so please *don't* give this a miss because it sounds like boring bureaucracy.

Then at 7.30pm we'll be joined by Ian Wilson (DFC director, Brabco), Callum Hosie (Brabco) and Roddy MacLeod (planning consultant) for a presentation on the new stadium proposal and a Q&A session, which I'll chair. The meeting will end around 9pm. It's a members' meeting, but you will be able to sign up on the night if you're not already a trust member. **If you care, BE THERE**

I hope people have also registered the clear, firm statement from the Trust in today's Reporter. The Sonstrust is *your* vehicle for ensuring that the voice of supporters is heard and responded to; that decisions about the future of the club and its stadium are taken in an accountable responsible way; and that we are active stakeholders in DFC, not passive spectators. 

See you tomorrow!

Simon

 

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1 hour ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

Ian Wilson saying to the website what he wouldn't say to the Reporter. Seems odd he wouldn't respond directly to their article...Maybe I'm reading too much into that though.

http://www.dumbartonfootballclub.com/news/?mode=view&id=2756

A couple of factual clarifications, as a few people have asked. 

This response denies tax *evasion* (which is illegal). But that's not the accusation in the Reporter article. The accusation is tax *avoidance* (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tax-avoidance-an-introduction). In terms of people 'leaving early' in 2013, the original court ruling referred to in the article took place in 2012. There was an appeal, which was lost. The UK Supreme Court then barred a further appeal. In the process, people decided to abandon the scheme. More on the latest developments here: http://www.step.org/news/uk-supreme-court-rejects-eclipse-35-film-partnership-appeal. And specifically from the football angle: http://citywire.co.uk/wealth-manager/news/football-stars-face-life-changing-tax-bills-over-film-scheme/a972226 

 

 

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4 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Its an unavoidable part of modern football that fans can no longer blindly trust the board of directors at their football club. That's absolutely not to say that the board members of Dumbarton FC are crooks - clearly they're not - but it's no longer the case that the board is made up of a collection of long term club servants rewarded with a tie and blazer and a dram in the board room on matchday and local philanthropists looking to give something back to their community club. Modern football boards are a complex mix of people with their own agendas and sadly these don't always match the overarching demands of the football club. Particularly when there's serious money involved.

Brabco, and by extension Dumbarton FC, are asking fans to put a lot of faith in a proposal that will radically reshape the future of the club. For better or for worse. Stories like the ones in today's Reporter certainly cast doubt on the judgement of the people involved. Thats not to say that we should be out with the pitchforks and burning torches, but there's a clear need for transparency in an effort to earn trust. If Ian Wilson wants to earn the trust of the Dumbarton support then there's a need for him to provide candid answers to the many questions that fans have.

Alan Jardine stood up at the last open meeting at the Abbotsford Hotel and said that there was a line in the sand that he would not cross. He was adamant that he would resign from the club board rather than allow a move that was detrimental to the club's future. Whilst such grandstanding gestures grab attention, I'd be asking further questions of the Dumbarton board. Like how we've managed to get ourselves into a position where our owners are telling us that the new stadium development is the only way to secure a viable future for the club? Or why we're unable to tap into at least some of the 300,000 riches that will supposedly be on offer if we move to the site at Youngs Farm? Ian Wilson and Brabco are, by and large, seen as he bogeymen hiding under the bed. We don't know them. They haven't previously engaged with us. We've seen stories in the press that put us on edge. And now they want us to uproot to another new ground that will undoubtedly mean a major change for the club. Our local football club directors have been conspicuous with their relative silence over recent years.

The sad part of modern football is that fans have to be constantly vigilant. It's only by asking questions, demanding answers and holding directors to account that we can play an active part in securing the future of our football club. 

It's why tomorrow's AGM is such an important event and why I hope to see fans take the chance to ask those questions and demand those answers. 

Ina strange way I'd be much happier if Brabco had declared from the off something along the lines of  'Look, we are hard-headed businessmen who have a tangential interest in this football club but we are determined to take it to a new chapter for which we will be lifting a decent financial skim'.  Perhaps tomorrow evening we could hear just that, instead of the rather patronising guff about heritage, history and the club we all love.

That would be a start.

 

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5 hours ago, The Moonster said:

Doesn't the very fact that they've been remote from the club put seven shades of shite up you, especially when you see the majority of their companies have been liquidated in the past? I know it does for me. 

I am sorry, it is the pedant in me, but I see three liquidations in a long list of companies. Dissolved isnt the same thing.

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