Sons' sorrow

[FifeSons]

2 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I tend to agree, aye, but I understand it's a hard balancing act. I think a lot of Sons fans have been bored of the "we have no money" chat and especially in previous years where we've heard that and still gone on to make good signings (and I fully understand this is down to the hard work of the board finding sponsors etc.). I think the board and John Steele maybe had reservations about beginning another summer with that message, there must have been fears that it would put folk off and I understand that (without agreeing with it).

I wouldn't just blame the board and Chairman for that rhetoric, I'd hold Duffy equally accountable. He came out publicly and demanded a budget to compete. By staying on, he implicitly suggested to the fans that the budget, at the very least, wouldn't be a 'lucky to even get 9th'.

[PWL]

New Thistle kit looks fairly generic. Could imagine ours being similar. 

 

[Gibby]

New Thistle kit looks fairly generic. Could imagine ours being similar. 
 

I like that, swap red for black, last years had too much going on for me

[Sons FC]

1 hour ago, pleslie99 said:

There doesn't seem to be any positivity or optimism from any of us. I think that says it all really. Usually there is some sort of disagreement with regards to signings/rumours but looks to me like we are all in agreement here. We look proper fucked!

We're not all in agreement - many of the regular posters might be but not everyone.

We have lost a lot of last season's squad so far - a squad that had us flirting with relegation for most of the season and scraping into sixth place. To be honest, after that, I'm not sure how many we would want to keep.

The difference from the first half of the season and the second half was largely down to the players Duffy brought in.

I share the frustrations of not seeing a better calibre of payer coming in yet and the fact that there are only a few weeks before the first games kick off but the end of the window is a time when clubs can pick up the better players - ok, the players who couldn't get a contract elsewhere but also the players who had a bad season last year for one reason or another, or who were out of favour and are now needing to look elsewhere but it takes time - time for their negotiations with their current club to take place, time for them to realise that if they don't decide soon they will be out of the game, time for them to realise that dropping a division will give them a showcase for the following year.

I trust Duffy to not only get the right players in but to get the best out of them.

If Duffy's only choice was to sign diddy players, the squad would be full by now. There is still time to fill the squad with the real players who will make a difference.

[Jan Vojáček]

7 minutes ago, Sons FC said:

We're not all in agreement - many of the regular posters might be but not everyone.

We have lost a lot of last season's squad so far - a squad that had us flirting with relegation for most of the season and scraping into sixth place. To be honest, after that, I'm not sure how many we would want to keep.

The difference from the first half of the season and the second half was largely down to the players Duffy brought in.

I share the frustrations of not seeing a better calibre of payer coming in yet and the fact that there are only a few weeks before the first games kick off but the end of the window is a time when clubs can pick up the better players - ok, the players who couldn't get a contract elsewhere but also the players who had a bad season last year for one reason or another, or who were out of favour and are now needing to look elsewhere but it takes time - time for their negotiations with their current club to take place, time for them to realise that if they don't decide soon they will be out of the game, time for them to realise that dropping a division will give them a showcase for the following year.

I trust Duffy to not only get the right players in but to get the best out of them.

If Duffy's only choice was to sign diddy players, the squad would be full by now. There is still time to fill the squad with the real players who will make a difference.

I'm not sure it was. In January we brought in Ben Armour, David Ferguson, Henk van Schaik, Boris Melingui and Conor Brennan. Ferguson (and, to be fair, Brian McLean in the handful of games he played after signing in March) made a massive difference, but aside from them the biggest thing Duffy did was turn players who had struggled to make any impact under Aitken (Forbes, Bobby Barr, Calum Gallagher, even Carsy and Hutton for example) and got them playing with a bit of confidence. 

[Thommo90]

15 players at training tonight. No names to offer.

Expecting Carswell to be signed and announced tonight.

[C'mon_the_Sons]

1 minute ago, Thommo90 said:

15 players at training tonight. No names to offer.

Expecting Carswell to be signed and announced tonight.

🤞 

[RGD89]

15 players at training tonight. No names to offer.

Expecting Carswell to be signed and announced tonight.

Has someone seen these 15 bodies ??

Apologies for the pessimism...[emoji23][emoji23]

[FifeSons]

Ben Armour was released from Morton. I’d take him.

[RGD89]

Ben Armour was released from Morton. I’d take him.

I second that [emoji1360]

[BallochSonsFan]

4 hours ago, The Moonster said:

I tend to agree, aye, but I understand it's a hard balancing act. I think a lot of Sons fans have been bored of the "we have no money" chat and especially in previous years where we've heard that and still gone on to make good signings (and I fully understand this is down to the hard work of the board finding sponsors etc.). I think the board and John Steele maybe had reservations about beginning another summer with that message, there must have been fears that it would put folk off and I understand that (without agreeing with it).

Fans may well be fed up of the negativity. Unfortunately right now it's realism.

I think that the chairman's comments were naive. Fans were always going to jump on them as a sign of where we would hope to be in the new season. Duffy also played a part in commenting that he was looking for a budget that would allow him to compete. Fans were entirely justified in thinking that both the chairman and the manager were looking at top 4 and that a top 4 budget would therefore be provided.

Reality? We had the 4th lowest crowds in the division last season. 2 of the clubs below us have been relegated. We averaged crowds of 617 last season. Both Peterhead and Clyde drew bigger average crowds. Only by double figures but the point still stands. As a club we're reliant on the income we can generate through our fans. Fewer fans means less money. We took a huge hit on SPFL money last season. We had historical issues to deal with. I know I've mentioned this before but as much as nobody likes facing up to it, the reality is that we're not in as strong a financial position as anybody would like us to be in. The current board are acting with a far greater level of financial control and responsibility but that doesnt make for a budget that will get fans excited. It means making difficult choices in order to ensure that as a club we have the means to keep going whilst they try to turn things around.

It's a vicious cycle. Fans are unhappy at the wages we can offer players and the likely strength of squad we can assemble. Some decide to stay away. The budget reduces further so we can offer less money to players. How does the club address that? Does it gamble with funds it can't afford to lose in the hope that enough people come along to games that the financial future of the club isn't at risk? Do fans bite the bullet and come along regardless on the basis that despite the budget and the squad potentially being less than ideal, the club needs the continued support of the fans? I won't criticise anybody who decides that they'd rather stay away than watch the decline that's starting to set in, but equally I'd challenge them to offer another option? If the only money we can generate is from a declining fan base then how to we arrest that decline whilst living within our means and making sure that the future of the club isn't put at unacceptable risk? We've all got competing demands for our money these days and it's a significant risk that malaise sets in. We're supposed to enjoy our Saturday afternoons following the Sons but enjoyment hasn't exactly been in abundance over the past 2 seasons. 

I do think we need to look at the positives that are there. We can get caught up with the negatives (we don't have a shortage to choose from) but whats going well? Despite the current period of radio silence, we do have a board of directors who are as open and honest as we've had in a very long time. Up until now communication has been massively improved. That it's gone quiet right now is regretful but there could well be good reason for that. Then there are the activities of the volunteers who are trying to raise funds for the club. We've had race nights, comedy nights, the dinner event last year and potentially more to come. We've had the "buy a brick" campaign. All of those activities have been coordinated by a group of volunteers who have given their time and efforts to try to help the club. Fans have bought into those events in impressive numbers.

Things are tougher than any of us would like right now. It's a painful situation to be in but one that we need to face up to. Brabco warned of a cycle of decline if their proposal of a move to the Renton Road wasn't accepted. In this case most of us would love nothing more than to shoot the messengers and it's entirely fair to say that our owners have very few friends amongst the support. That their warnings are coming to fruition doesnt need to be the end of it. I'd love nothing more than to prove the likes of Ian Wilson wrong and show him that this doesnt need to be a cycle of decline and that we can recover and - eventually - start to thrive. The best way to deal with Brabco from a footballing point of view right now is to try to prove them wrong and to try to run the club as a proper business. That means financial control. It means growing the money we make from venue hire, events and matchday catering and hospitality. It means the fans accepting a degree of financial realism in the short term with a view to building a more solid foundation for the club going forward.

Nobody can fob fans off. So far there are grounds to be less than impressed with our squad building. Unfortunately the only way to change that going forward is to buy into the idea that we can improve things. It'll take hard work from the board. It'll take the time and efforts of volunteers who are willing to help. It'll take the patience and the backing of the support to affect genuine change at the club. Whether or not we can do it? Its up to us.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Fans may well be fed up of the negativity. Unfortunately right now it's realism.
I think that the chairman's comments were naive. Fans were always going to jump on them as a sign of where we would hope to be in the new season. Duffy also played a part in commenting that he was looking for a budget that would allow him to compete. Fans were entirely justified in thinking that both the chairman and the manager were looking at top 4 and that a top 4 budget would therefore be provided.
Reality? We had the 4th lowest crowds in the division last season. 2 of the clubs below us have been relegated. We averaged crowds of 617 last season. Both Peterhead and Clyde drew bigger average crowds. Only by double figures but the point still stands. As a club we're reliant on the income we can generate through our fans. Fewer fans means less money. We took a huge hit on SPFL money last season. We had historical issues to deal with. I know I've mentioned this before but as much as nobody likes facing up to it, the reality is that we're not in as strong a financial position as anybody would like us to be in. The current board are acting with a far greater level of financial control and responsibility but that doesnt make for a budget that will get fans excited. It means making difficult choices in order to ensure that as a club we have the means to keep going whilst they try to turn things around.
It's a vicious cycle. Fans are unhappy at the wages we can offer players and the likely strength of squad we can assemble. Some decide to stay away. The budget reduces further so we can offer less money to players. How does the club address that? Does it gamble with funds it can't afford to lose in the hope that enough people come along to games that the financial future of the club isn't at risk? Do fans bite the bullet and come along regardless on the basis that despite the budget and the squad potentially being less than ideal, the club needs the continued support of the fans? I won't criticise anybody who decides that they'd rather stay away than watch the decline that's starting to set in, but equally I'd challenge them to offer another option? If the only money we can generate is from a declining fan base then how to we arrest that decline whilst living within our means and making sure that the future of the club isn't put at unacceptable risk? We've all got competing demands for our money these days and it's a significant risk that malaise sets in. We're supposed to enjoy our Saturday afternoons following the Sons but enjoyment hasn't exactly been in abundance over the past 2 seasons. 
I do think we need to look at the positives that are there. We can get caught up with the negatives (we don't have a shortage to choose from) but whats going well? Despite the current period of radio silence, we do have a board of directors who are as open and honest as we've had in a very long time. Up until now communication has been massively improved. That it's gone quiet right now is regretful but there could well be good reason for that. Then there are the activities of the volunteers who are trying to raise funds for the club. We've had race nights, comedy nights, the dinner event last year and potentially more to come. We've had the "buy a brick" campaign. All of those activities have been coordinated by a group of volunteers who have given their time and efforts to try to help the club. Fans have bought into those events in impressive numbers.
Things are tougher than any of us would like right now. It's a painful situation to be in but one that we need to face up to. Brabco warned of a cycle of decline if their proposal of a move to the Renton Road wasn't accepted. In this case most of us would love nothing more than to shoot the messengers and it's entirely fair to say that our owners have very few friends amongst the support. That their warnings are coming to fruition doesnt need to be the end of it. I'd love nothing more than to prove the likes of Ian Wilson wrong and show him that this doesnt need to be a cycle of decline and that we can recover and - eventually - start to thrive. The best way to deal with Brabco from a footballing point of view right now is to try to prove them wrong and to try to run the club as a proper business. That means financial control. It means growing the money we make from venue hire, events and matchday catering and hospitality. It means the fans accepting a degree of financial realism in the short term with a view to building a more solid foundation for the club going forward.
Nobody can fob fans off. So far there are grounds to be less than impressed with our squad building. Unfortunately the only way to change that going forward is to buy into the idea that we can improve things. It'll take hard work from the board. It'll take the time and efforts of volunteers who are willing to help. It'll take the patience and the backing of the support to affect genuine change at the club. Whether or not we can do it? Its up to us.

I applaud your sentiments BSF but the most eloquent testimony on the current state of affairs is the pitiful rump of Sons posters who remain on here.

It has all been said, and as long as DFC is impaled on a spike called Brabco it will be a grim existence, simply because they see an asset to be realised rather than a football club. I genuinely fear for us.

[BallochSonsFan]

They've always seen us as a land investment with a complication attached. The football club has always been the complication in the eyes of Brabco and always will be. That has presented opportunity for us in the form of the current board. It's also caused harm in the form of the years of neglect and the absolute lack of any real business management at the club under previous chairmen. The damage may well have already been done and the erosion of support in the local community has been really sad to see. We need to hope that things turn around because as much as nobody wants to face up to it, the alternative takes us to a place where the club may never recover from.

We need to make it work because there is no other option short of fairytale rescues.

[George Parr]

6 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I applaud your sentiments BSF but the most eloquent testimony on the current state of affairs is the pitiful rump of Sons posters who remain on here.

It has all been said, and as long as DFC is impaled on a spike called Brabco it will be a grim existence, simply because they see an asset to be realised rather than a football club. I genuinely fear for us.

It’s a fair point. Beyond a few hundred season ticket holders, who would really care if we continue to drift down the leagues over the next few seasons and then just eventually fizzle out to extinction? 

And as pointed out, there’s plenty other distractions on a Saturday anyway - it was easy enough to identify a few during the latter days of Aitken’s tenure. 

 

[BallochSonsFan]

11 minutes ago, George Parr said:

It’s a fair point. Beyond a few hundred season ticket holders, who would really care if we continue to drift down the leagues over the next few seasons and then just eventually fizzle out to extinction? 

And as pointed out, there’s plenty other distractions on a Saturday anyway - it was easy enough to identify a few during the latter days of Aitken’s tenure. 

 

It's easy for football to stop becoming a habit. If that happens to enough Dumbarton fans then there's only one outcome.

There wouldn't be a club for folk to come back to in the future.

Edited June 18, 2019 by BallochSonsFan

[albundy]

Fans may well be fed up of the negativity. Unfortunately right now it's realism.
I think that the chairman's comments were naive. Fans were always going to jump on them as a sign of where we would hope to be in the new season. Duffy also played a part in commenting that he was looking for a budget that would allow him to compete. Fans were entirely justified in thinking that both the chairman and the manager were looking at top 4 and that a top 4 budget would therefore be provided.
Reality? We had the 4th lowest crowds in the division last season. 2 of the clubs below us have been relegated. We averaged crowds of 617 last season. Both Peterhead and Clyde drew bigger average crowds. Only by double figures but the point still stands. As a club we're reliant on the income we can generate through our fans. Fewer fans means less money. We took a huge hit on SPFL money last season. We had historical issues to deal with. I know I've mentioned this before but as much as nobody likes facing up to it, the reality is that we're not in as strong a financial position as anybody would like us to be in. The current board are acting with a far greater level of financial control and responsibility but that doesnt make for a budget that will get fans excited. It means making difficult choices in order to ensure that as a club we have the means to keep going whilst they try to turn things around.
It's a vicious cycle. Fans are unhappy at the wages we can offer players and the likely strength of squad we can assemble. Some decide to stay away. The budget reduces further so we can offer less money to players. How does the club address that? Does it gamble with funds it can't afford to lose in the hope that enough people come along to games that the financial future of the club isn't at risk? Do fans bite the bullet and come along regardless on the basis that despite the budget and the squad potentially being less than ideal, the club needs the continued support of the fans? I won't criticise anybody who decides that they'd rather stay away than watch the decline that's starting to set in, but equally I'd challenge them to offer another option? If the only money we can generate is from a declining fan base then how to we arrest that decline whilst living within our means and making sure that the future of the club isn't put at unacceptable risk? We've all got competing demands for our money these days and it's a significant risk that malaise sets in. We're supposed to enjoy our Saturday afternoons following the Sons but enjoyment hasn't exactly been in abundance over the past 2 seasons. 
I do think we need to look at the positives that are there. We can get caught up with the negatives (we don't have a shortage to choose from) but whats going well? Despite the current period of radio silence, we do have a board of directors who are as open and honest as we've had in a very long time. Up until now communication has been massively improved. That it's gone quiet right now is regretful but there could well be good reason for that. Then there are the activities of the volunteers who are trying to raise funds for the club. We've had race nights, comedy nights, the dinner event last year and potentially more to come. We've had the "buy a brick" campaign. All of those activities have been coordinated by a group of volunteers who have given their time and efforts to try to help the club. Fans have bought into those events in impressive numbers.
Things are tougher than any of us would like right now. It's a painful situation to be in but one that we need to face up to. Brabco warned of a cycle of decline if their proposal of a move to the Renton Road wasn't accepted. In this case most of us would love nothing more than to shoot the messengers and it's entirely fair to say that our owners have very few friends amongst the support. That their warnings are coming to fruition doesnt need to be the end of it. I'd love nothing more than to prove the likes of Ian Wilson wrong and show him that this doesnt need to be a cycle of decline and that we can recover and - eventually - start to thrive. The best way to deal with Brabco from a footballing point of view right now is to try to prove them wrong and to try to run the club as a proper business. That means financial control. It means growing the money we make from venue hire, events and matchday catering and hospitality. It means the fans accepting a degree of financial realism in the short term with a view to building a more solid foundation for the club going forward.
Nobody can fob fans off. So far there are grounds to be less than impressed with our squad building. Unfortunately the only way to change that going forward is to buy into the idea that we can improve things. It'll take hard work from the board. It'll take the time and efforts of volunteers who are willing to help. It'll take the patience and the backing of the support to affect genuine change at the club. Whether or not we can do it? Its up to us.

All of this makes sense, by why didn't the people representing the club say as much. If the chairman had come out and said we need to tighten our belt but will do our utmost to remain competitive, it would have framed the expectation a lot better than We aim for the top 4.

If it's simple choice of a squad of jobbers vs folding, its a no brainer

[KierenAAFC]

I’m pretty buzzing we’ve signed Andy Stirling tonight but what’s your thoughts on it?

[C'mon_the_Sons]

7 minutes ago, KierenAAFC said:

I’m pretty buzzing we’ve signed Andy Stirling tonight but what’s your thoughts on it?

That's nice for you.

[KierenAAFC]

That's nice for you.

Now, now. Just wanna know a bit more about the guy!

[George Parr]

20 minutes ago, KierenAAFC said:

I’m pretty buzzing we’ve signed Andy Stirling tonight but what’s your thoughts on it?

You’re like the drunk uncle who’s stumbled into a wake ffs. 

But yeah,  good player. I’m sure you’ll all have a lovely time.