Sons' sorrow

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

I'd usually agree with most of what you say but I don't think Barr is actually that good. He continuously rushes into challenges and the amount of times he does needless things like getting into tussles with opposing players or getting involved in situations that he doesn't need to is ridiculous. Silly bookings seem to be something he is good at.
Hutton isn't great. We all agree on that, but I don't think we have had a better option available. Now Carswell is fit again we can maybe agree he would be the superior option - if he getting himself into the right shape and mindset.

The majority of his silly bookings come from him trying to chase folk around in midfield, a position he should be nowhere near. He doesn't have the legs to play in there. Even at that he at least offers something, unlike Hutton. He puts himself about and I don't actually mind him being a bit of a wind up merchant and picking up bookings. The ridiculous dive is a step too far unfortunately.

I fully agree that as soon as Carswell is fit he should come into midfield with Barr dropping back to centre half and partnering Hill. Dowie should be nowhere near it.

I think it's safe to say that a fit Grant Gallagher would walk into starting 11, and I'm not even his biggest fan.

[cedrick1]

I’ve said previously I don’t think any of midfield at moment is good enough and agree that gall may have been first choice which backs thus up to a degree.

i think with Hutton there has been and is an expectation from where he came from that he actually better than us proving to be case .

as other say this is probably true of whole squad this season but it’s what we’re stuck with . Until we spend millions in the transfer window.

[Jan Vojáček]

7 hours ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

The majority of his silly bookings come from him trying to chase folk around in midfield, a position he should be nowhere near. He doesn't have the legs to play in there. Even at that he at least offers something, unlike Hutton. He puts himself about and I don't actually mind him being a bit of a wind up merchant and picking up bookings. The ridiculous dive is a step too far unfortunately.

I fully agree that as soon as Carswell is fit he should come into midfield with Barr dropping back to centre half and partnering Hill. Dowie should be nowhere near it.

I think it's safe to say that a fit Grant Gallagher would walk into starting 11, and I'm not even his biggest fan

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this is glaringly obvious. I've had a look at the stats too, to see if they back that theory up. And they do. Pretty glaringly. These are for all competitions so far:

Games at CB: 9
Wins: 4
Points Per Game: 1.55
Bookings: 2
Bookings Per Game: 0.22
Goals: 2

Games at CM: 7
Wins: 1
Points Per Game: 0.85
Bookings: 6
Bookings Per Game: 0.85
Goals: 0

In the four games he's played at centre-back in the Championship this season, he hasn't been booked. I know Squeezebox isn't his biggest fan, and I know I probably am, but it should be Stevie who is taking the brunt of the stick for playing him in a position where he clearly isn't comfortable imo.

It's worth noting as well that Carsy missed the entirety of pre-season, and only made his first league start on the third weekend of the season, before disappearing off for surgery. It'll take him time to get back up to speed, so I'd imagine starts in the cup games and a few sub appearances might be the tactic Stevie uses to gradually settle him back in. FWIW, I also agree that Grant Gal would add something to our side - although probably not alongside Carsy. What is it they say about absence again?!

We've been a touch unfortunate with injuries, but that got me thinking what our outright best team on paper would be if everyone is fit - and I reckon it would look something like this (not that Stevie will ever select it).

Jamie Ewings

Sam Wardrop Craig Barr Dougie Hill Chris McLaughlin

Stuart Carswell Danny Handling

Tom Walsh Dimitris Froxylias Mark Stewart

Christian Nadé

I've no idea how good Handling would be in that role, but I'm looking forward to seeing him and would like to think he could maybe do his closest impression of Sam Stanton in there. He's certainly a more natural partner (on paper) than Hutton or Barr.

We have plenty of wide players, but none of them would be 100% starters for me. Walsh is capable of bits of magic, so he probably deserves a spot, but on the other wing it was a toss-up between Stewart (not a natural, but a guy I'm really growing to like) and Roy (poor defensively, but great to watch actually running at people). 

Edited October 29, 2017 by Sonsteam of 08

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

I’ve said previously I don’t think any of midfield at moment is good enough and agree that gall may have been first choice which backs thus up to a degree.
i think with Hutton there has been and is an expectation from where he came from that he actually better than us proving to be case .
as other say this is probably true of whole squad this season but it’s what we’re stuck with . Until we spend millions in the transfer window.

He was shite for Airdrie, St Mirren and Rangers prior to joining us so I'm not sure anyone expected anything from him. He had a decent spell at Queens but that appears to have been a one off.

[Best Team in Angus]

Any chance you can repay the 3 points we gave you earlier in the season 

[The Moonster]

10 minutes ago, Best Team in Angus said:

Any chance you can repay the 3 points we gave you earlier in the season 

We'll be lucky to field 11 players at this rate. 

[Best Team in Angus]

3 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

We'll be lucky to field 11 players at this rate. 

We know how that feels it lasted more than half the season for us last year

[cedrick1]

1 hour ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

 

He was shite for Airdrie, St Mirren and Rangers prior to joining us so I'm not sure anyone expected anything from him. He had a decent spell at Queens but that appears to have been a one off.
 

 

When he mad first team at ibrox great things were exoected(in lower leagues ) and I think that because of this there is a belief he must be good. I’m not my sure he was that good at queens even.

my only point about when he does something wrong everyone lets him know whilst others get away with it

my view is over last few games he wasn’t any worse than a number of others and I would say in a couple of those games better

[Skyline Drifter]

26 minutes ago, cedrick1 said:

When he mad first team at ibrox great things were exoected(in lower leagues ) and I think that because of this there is a belief he must be good. I’m not my sure he was that good at queens even.

He was decent and got player of the year in a very mundane season overall for us after losing 5 or 6 of our best players to bigger clubs that summer but most of us were probably guilty of over-rating him a bit. He was neat and tidy in possession, rarely gave the ball away but didn't score, never tackled and rarely won or even went for a header. Most of us were disappointed he turned down a new contract to join St Mirren instead though.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

He was decent and got player of the year in a very mundane season overall for us after losing 5 or 6 of our best players to bigger clubs that summer but most of us were probably guilty of over-rating him a bit. He was neat and tidy in possession, rarely gave the ball away but didn't score, never tackled and rarely won or even went for a header. Most of us were disappointed he turned down a new contract to join St Mirren instead though.

Out of inteterest, who normally played alongside him and in what sort of formation?

[pleslie99]

I see a few posts about why Stevie is persisting with 2 holding midfielders. I can understand some being annoyed at this when we are shoehorning players into there just to play that formation. However that is clearly the formation Stevie wants us to play.
It seems to me that a lot of people jump on the ‘barcelona’ bandwagon and want to play certain formations because ‘that’s the way to go these days’. Look what happened when Leicester bucked the trend down south and went 442. I’d much rather we played a formation that played to our strengths and the players we have available. If that means putting 2 up top then so be it, sometimes it won’t be pretty but results are more important than performances at our end of the table.

[sonsism]

I see a few posts about why Stevie is persisting with 2 holding midfielders. I can understand some being annoyed at this when we are shoehorning players into there just to play that formation. However that is clearly the formation Stevie wants us to play.
It seems to me that a lot of people jump on the ‘barcelona’ bandwagon and want to play certain formations because ‘that’s the way to go these days’. Look what happened when Leicester bucked the trend down south and went 442. I’d much rather we played a formation that played to our strengths and the players we have available. If that means putting 2 up top then so be it, sometimes it won’t be pretty but results are more important than performances at our end of the table.

I'd argue Aitken is the one jumping on the bandwagon trying to ram square pegs into round holes by insisting on playing a specific way rather than using players in a system that means they're playing to their strengths.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

I see a few posts about why Stevie is persisting with 2 holding midfielders. I can understand some being annoyed at this when we are shoehorning players into there just to play that formation. However that is clearly the formation Stevie wants us to play.
It seems to me that a lot of people jump on the ‘barcelona’ bandwagon and want to play certain formations because ‘that’s the way to go these days’. Look what happened when Leicester bucked the trend down south and went 442. I’d much rather we played a formation that played to our strengths and the players we have available. If that means putting 2 up top then so be it, sometimes it won’t be pretty but results are more important than performances at our end of the table.

Has anyone actually said they want to see us play a different formation?

We managed fine without 2 holding midfielders last season, infact our entire season was turned around by not playing two holding midfielders.

The formation is fine, the players being selected is the issue. Unfortunately we're restricted by injuries at the minute but the Hutton and Barr pairing should be torn apart immediately. It simply doesn't work.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

 

Out of inteterest, who normally played alongside him and in what sort of formation?

 

Either Kyle Jacobs or Mark Millar in the middle of a 4-4-2.  Occasionally either Jake Pickard or late in the season Andy Murdoch on loan from Rangers.

[Boghead ranter]

5 hours ago, cedrick1 said:

When he mad first team at ibrox great things were exoected(in lower leagues ) and I think that because of this there is a belief he must be good. I’m not my sure he was that good at queens even.

my only point about when he does something wrong everyone lets him know whilst others get away with it

my view is over last few games he wasn’t any worse than a number of others and I would say in a couple of those games better

Thus it has always been with Sons fans (and probably all other clubs too). Colin Nish recently, extending right back (in my memory) to the 3 Coyles in the 80s, and probably lots more examples in between.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Boghead ranter

[O'Kelly Isley III]

8 hours ago, cedrick1 said:

When he mad first team at ibrox great things were exoected(in lower leagues ) and I think that because of this there is a belief he must be good. I’m not my sure he was that good at queens even.

my only point about when he does something wrong everyone lets him know whilst others get away with it

my view is over last few games he wasn’t any worse than a number of others and I would say in a couple of those games better

I would agree with this,  and whilst Hutton would not have been my pick fans can be very subjective indeed.

It would be interesting to know how, for example,  Callum Gallagher  is viewed; I was incredulous when not only was he retained he was Stevie's first signing - this for a player  who could not and does not come close to commanding a starting place.

[BallochSonsFan]

21 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I would agree with this,  and whilst Hutton would not have been my pick fans can be very subjective indeed.

It would be interesting to know how, for example,  Callum Gallagher  is viewed; I was incredulous when not only was he retained he was Stevie's first signing - this for a player  who could not and does not come close to commanding a starting place.

The  Callum Gallagher signing is a bit baffling. Nowhere near starting. Routinely used as a sub in the last few minutes of a game. Unlikely to ever displace Walsh or Froxylias. Could say the same for Johnson too.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

I would agree with this,  and whilst Hutton would not have been my pick fans can be very subjective indeed.
It would be interesting to know how, for example,  Callum Gallagher  is viewed; I was incredulous when not only was he retained he was Stevie's first signing - this for a player  who could not and does not come close to commanding a starting place.

Callum Gallagher is also nowhere near good enough but he's also not playing 90 minutes every week, thankfully.

Does Hutton get any more grief than the other duds in the squad? I'm not sure he does tbh. I've certainly not heard anything at games to suggest that's the case nor have I seen any evidence of that on here.

If any anything there was more discontent around me about Gallacher's attempt at the 2nd goal than anything Hutton done. It still doesn't detract from the fact he's not good enough mind you.

[Boghead ranter]

£10 a skull for the cup game v Raith, with U12's in free if accompanied by an adult paying the tenner.  £5 concessions.

[The Moonster]

Good prices, although if we get a decent crowd down and end up making the semi finals we may run out of napkins for all the nosebleeds.