Benito Robles Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 No, we absolutely cannot, nor ever will be able to, sustain full-time football. Fucking drivel. The people who come along to "big" cup games are not only lapsed Sons fans, but also their wives, husbands, friends, colleagues, well-wishers and assorted people from the town, as displayed by our game last week against Aberdeen when bus 4 had a load of Old Firm supporters on, who just happened to be from Dumbarton. Forget what occasional cup games generate in terms of crowds, only league averages matter, and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. You can't build a stadium based on something as ethereal and hard to define as cup crowds. Fair point, actually. Cup crowds are no basis to a business plan, but your man Mr Sons Fan seems to think it is a decent foundation. I think you guys have a great stadium that adequately suits your needs and is in a great location. We should be so lucky at Clydebank. Ambition is not defined by your stadium. White Elephant syndrome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Fair point, actually. Cup crowds are no basis to a business plan, but your man Mr Sons Fan seems to think it is a decent foundation. I think you guys have a great stadium that adequately suits your needs and is in a great location. We should be so lucky at Clydebank. Ambition is not defined by your stadium. White Elephant syndrome. Correct. We are fine where we are, we do not need to emulate Darlington. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I'd love it if Bankies had a ground like ours. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons Fan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I'm not basing it solely on Cup crowds. Performance on the pitch will increase numbers as well. I'm sure some stato can tell us the average attendance figures when we were in the 3rd in comparison to this season. I would think they are different. Also as I've said in previous post I think there are others out there we can intice, even dare it some old Firm fans. The last two seasons I have met/ sit beside Old firm fans who became sick of all the rubbish and just wanted to watch football. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons Fan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I'd love it if Bankies had a ground like ours. It would be great if the Bankies could get back into the leagues so we can have our proper derby back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I'm not basing it solely on Cup crowds. Performance on the pitch will increase numbers as well. I'm sure some stato can tell us the average attendance figures when we were in the 3rd in comparison to this season. I would think they are different. Also as I've said in previous post I think there are others out there we can intice, even dare it some old Firm fans. The last two seasons I have met/ sit beside Old firm fans who became sick of all the rubbish and just wanted to watch football. If there are floating fans out there waiting to be claimed then there is no guarantee of keeping them. Building a new stadium based on the idea of "claiming" fans of other teams or previously unclaimed football fans is totally mental. A completely unsustainable business model. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benito Robles Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I'm not basing it solely on Cup crowds. Performance on the pitch will increase numbers as well. I'm sure some stato can tell us the average attendance figures when we were in the 3rd in comparison to this season. I would think they are different. Also as I've said in previous post I think there are others out there we can intice, even dare it some old Firm fans. The last two seasons I have met/ sit beside Old firm fans who became sick of all the rubbish and just wanted to watch football. Come on Sons Fan. Really? Attendances in higher divisions when facing teams with larger supports, occasionally, are bound to skew the average. Again, it's no basis for your 4000 capacity stadium. I'd guess that sustain full--time football you'd need a lot of Celtic and Rangers fans to become disillusioned on a regular basis. We mentioned deluded earlier. Are you sure you are not clutching at straws with such a fragile argument? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons Fan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 If there are floating fans out there waiting to be claimed then there is no guarantee of keeping them. Building a new stadium based on the idea of "claiming" fans of other teams or previously unclaimed football fans is totally mental. A completely unsustainable business model. Your really holding on to that part eh? I've said we need to build fan base first or IF we need to move due to the offer being to good to be true then the Stadium could be 4000 OR 2000 as we have ATM with the potential to increase again IF we need to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 How do you market a club like Dumbarton? We're 20 miles away from the 2 biggest teams in Scotland. These 2 have 2 of the largest regular supports in Britain. They also have a strong draw for both footballing and non-footballing reasons. How do you get fans to ignore the big 2 on our doorstep and head along to their local team? Free kids tickets and tickets for schools isn't going to cut it. My other sport - the team who's logo I use as my avatar - have worked towards getting crowds of 2500-3500 over the space of 4 seasons. Their main selling point is that they AREN'T a football side and can therefore offer a family-friendly atmosphere. If that's the route the club were to go down (for example) then it would alienate the majority of our existing support. There's a maximum number of people who will follow a team like Dumbarton. If we could get 2000-2500 crowds on a regular basis then we'd be doing very well and even that would require us to add about 1200-1800 fans onto our regular home gate. We can't change the football landscape in the west of Scotland. It's a big ask to get new fans through the gates and marketing in the normal sense is virtually impossible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons Fan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Come on Sons Fan. Really? Attendances in higher divisions when facing teams with larger supports, occasionally, are bound to skew the average. Again, it's no basis for your 4000 capacity stadium. I'd guess that sustain full--time football you'd need a lot of Celtic and Rangers fans to become disillusioned on a regular basis. We mentioned deluded earlier. Are you sure you are not clutching at straws with such a fragile argument? Ok let me break it down further home fan attendances in each division I.e in div 3 we didn't have nearly 400 season ticket holders like we do now. In all my posts I have never said WE MUST or Provided FACTS again I've already said the 4000 was made up randomly while making dinner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Your really holding on to that part eh? I've said we need to build fan base first or IF we need to move due to the offer being to good to be true then the Stadium could be 4000 OR 2000 as we have ATM with the potential to increase again IF we need to. "if you build it, they will come" is a line from a Kevin Costner movie, not a viable business development strategy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons Fan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 "if you build it, they will come" is a line from a Kevin Costner movie, not a viable business development strategy. You seem to have it in your mind that I've said build a 4000 seater stadium and we will attract loads more fans, its that easy. I never did but your minds set so I'm off to watch MOTD. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aftershocker Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 You seem to have it in your mind that I've said build a 4000 seater stadium and we will attract loads more fans, its that easy. I never did but your minds set so I'm off to watch MOTD. the other option of course would be to have a terracing area - there seems to be some talk that this may be allowed going forward this debate is a little pointless - yes of course we have no need for a 4000 seat stadium, but again as before....if someone was to offer us one.....surely a different proposition oh....and any chance of updating the half time music a little? the majority is 40/50 years old....its not horrific, but if we are wanting younger fans in..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelSONS fan Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Ok let me break it down further home fan attendances in each division I.e in div 3 we didn't have nearly 400 season ticket holders like we do now. In all my posts I have never said WE MUST or Provided FACTS again I've already said the 4000 was made up randomly while making dinner. what did you have for dinner? And did you enjoy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Like them or not BRABCO on the face of it and with the help of the local directors and trust have guided the club into a great position. Do we know every single detail about them? No, but do we need to? When they came in we had a owner who didn't want to be there and a team in the 3rd division. When they came in they didn't hide the fact that the end goal was move the club to a new ground and in turn get a return on their investment and get the club to the 1st Div. At that point I thought wasn't sure if 1st div was possible and look where we are now. 5th in the league with a fantastic manager that's been backed by the board. Fan involvement at board level and other levels of the club. Is it perfect? - again no do people mind sets need to change more yes but still in a pretty decent position to be in. On the stadium front it's now well document/ known that expansion where we are isn't possible and commercially we don't have/ get the best from the stadium. If financially possible would you turn down a new community backed stadium maybe 4000 seats with an all weather pitch, bar with the ability to take home and away fans. Bigger commercial opportunity with conference rooms, offices. A gym? Who know the options are endless. Not exactly a transport nightmare either. Easily accessible by car, on a bus route and 20min walk from the town centre? Oops! I clicked to see who had given you a negative and somehow managed to add to it by mistake. I gave you a positive on another post to remedy it as it seems one can't withdraw the negative. Sorry and all that! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 On the ownership/stadium, put yourself in Mr Brabco's shoes. You've taken over a football club that you didn't really want but was a necessary evil in order to obtain a prime piece of real estate. You sit on that investment and when time is right you look to sell up. You make a healthy profit on the assets and you sit and think about how you spend that profit. Do you A) build the football club a new, state of the art stadium, eating up most of your profit or B) take your profit and dispose of the necessary evil in the quickest way possible. I do wonder which route our kind hearted owners will take. Waken up boys, we have a fight on our hands. But......isn't it true that Calum and Andy Hosie are part of the Brabco consortium? The Hosie family connection with DFC goes back to the middle of the last century. I'm old enough to remember John Hosie who kept the club running day to day as secretary for decades. Also isn't it so that these guys are involved with Bet Butler who have sponsored the strips and the stadium to the tune of a sum roughly equivalent to that required to employ Ian Murray? Didn't they oversee the appointment of a Chief Exec with decades of support and service to DFC on his CV? It seems clear that they want to see a return on their investment but maybe it's not their sole motivation? I'm only posing the questions. At the moment none of us know sufficient details of the plans to be certain of anything. All I will say is to repeat that if Brabco were asset strippers, it doesn't seem clear from their modus operandi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons Fan Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Oops! I clicked to see who had given you a negative and somehow managed to add to it by mistake. I gave you a positive on another post to remedy it as it seems one can't withdraw the negative. Sorry and all that! haha no worries mate, sound like something I would do as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 But......isn't it true that Calum and Andy Hosie are part of the Brabco consortium? The Hosie family connection with DFC goes back to the middle of the last century. I'm old enough to remember John Hosie who kept the club running day to day as secretary for decades. Also isn't it so that these guys are involved with Bet Butler who have sponsored the strips and the stadium to the tune of a sum roughly equivalent to that required to employ Ian Murray? Didn't they oversee the appointment of a Chief Exec with decades of support and service to DFC on his CV? It seems clear that they want to see a return on their investment but maybe it's not their sole motivation? I'm only posing the questions. At the moment none of us know sufficient details of the plans to be certain of anything. All I will say is to repeat that if Brabco were asset strippers, it doesn't seem clear from their modus operandi. We'll see what the proposal is. I'll be delighted to be proven wrong but I ain't got a good feeling about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 We'll see what the proposal is. I'll be delighted to be proven wrong but I ain't got a good feeling about it. Fair enough but the real estate value of the land remains the same whether the club is successful or not. However it would be far easier to just sell that ground from underneath a struggling third division club starved of investment (like we had under Rankine) than at a time when they were successful (like now). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons Fan Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Out of interest and I'm not wanting to start a war here just mearly posing the question. Why are BRABCO the villains here? What have they done? Is it purely because they haven't made their self known to the wider community or is there more to it? Putting aside the Stadium rumours, It seems very much a them and us attitude with quiet a lot of fans on here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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