Sons' sorrow

[Sweet Pete]

You've got more chance of getting full disclosure of Human Rights abuses by DPRK than you have of getting definite information out of the club quickly.

[Casey]

Was any answer proferred, Casey?

Aye!

They'll be in touch.

[Sweet Pete]

Aye!

They'll be in touch.

A nice fob off then.

[Nowhereman]

Where have you all been for the last few years ? There have been planning applications in before so why is this one causing so much consternation. The current owners bought the club withe the aim of making money on the ground. Everyone knows that. They will continue to try and sell it. If they do we just have to try and make sure that we get another decent stadium out of it.

[Sweet Pete]

Where have you all been for the last few years ? There have been planning applications in before so why is this one causing so much consternation. The current owners bought the club withe the aim of making money on the ground. Everyone knows that. They will continue to try and sell it. If they do we just have to try and make sure that we get another decent stadium out of it.

We were all well aware of that from day one, but it doesn't make it any less concerning, not to mention that it is, and always has been, wholly unneccessary for us to move to a new facility. The fact that it is being done purely for profiteering reasons is the very reason that we are concerned about it. Simply saying "It's fine as long as we get a decent ground out of it" isn't good enough, the fact of the matter is that we don't need a new ground and won't need a new ground for a very, very long time. Just because it suits a bunch of carpet baggers and asset strippers to move us doesn't mean that it's the right thing for the club and its fans.

[Sweet Pete]

Let's say the previously mooted "community stadium" goes ahead and we sell the BBS and move into a 6000 seat stadium part funded, and therefore part owned, by WDC. What good could that possibly do for the football club? We have an incredibly valuable asset in the form of the BBS, but it only remains valuable for as long as we hold onto it and refuse to move. The minute we sign the deeds over to a new owner we immediately lose our bargaining chip and the source of our future (and current) fiscal stability.

It's like having a lot of gold hidden under your mattress, it only makes you rich for as long as you hold onto it. The minute you dispose of your assets you are immediately poorer for it. Hence why they call it "disposing".

[Sweet Pete]

The very essence of why this is wrong is the simple fact that it is completely unneccessary. If we were in the position of owning a stadium outright that was in dire need of maintenance then we would be in a very strong bargaining position to find a buyer for a highly competitive price and get a new stadium that was purpose built as part of the deal, exactly what we did when we moved from Boghead.

The difference now though is that we do not need to move. The owners wanting us to move is not the same thing and makes any mooted action to sell the ground and uproot us totally against all common sense. What if we do move and then 10 years later some more developers come on board, do we sell up yet again? Where does it end?

[The Moonster]

A nice fob off then.

To be fair, I know our Trust board members quite well and I don't think we need to worry about what they're doing. They have intelligent people there and I can't believe that with all the previous chat about a stadium move that they've been doing nothing. I'm sure info will be forthcoming.

Where have you all been for the last few years ? There have been planning applications in before so why is this one causing so much consternation. The current owners bought the club withe the aim of making money on the ground. Everyone knows that. They will continue to try and sell it. If they do we just have to try and make sure that we get another decent stadium out of it.

If you remember we've brought up this issue and the issue of our unknown owners on many occasions, but now we seem to have a solid story to work off of. They've been here what 5 years now? And we still don't have a name of a person who heads the company that owns the club, just a randomly generated company name. Now, they've been working hard putting plans in place for a new stadium without uttering a word to the fans and we're supposed just sit back and see how it all pans out?

I've done some digging in the past when this has come up and Denny's Homes have ties to Brabco, some might feel that's normal (maybe it is) but it should make you ask yourself "Do these guys really give a f**k what happens to us after they've made their buck on the land?".

We can't get angry though (I know it seems like I am, but I'm not, honest), we need to meet whatever bonkers proposal we're served up with sensible and measured counter arguments. The only reason for us to move ground is to make profit on the land we have, profit that we will not see a penny of.

[Sweet Pete]

To be fair, I know our Trust board members quite well and I don't think we need to worry about what they're doing. They have intelligent people there and I can't believe that with all the previous chat about a stadium move that they've been doing nothing. I'm sure info will be forthcoming.

If you remember we've brought up this issue and the issue of our unknown owners on many occasions, but now we seem to have a solid story to work off of. They've been here what 5 years now? And we still don't have a name of a person who heads the company that owns the club, just a randomly generated company name. Now, they've been working hard putting plans in place for a new stadium without uttering a word to the fans and we're supposed just sit back and see how it all pans out?

I've done some digging in the past when this has come up and Denny's Homes have ties to Brabco, some might feel that's normal (maybe it is) but it should make you ask yourself "Do these guys really give a f**k what happens to us after they've made their buck on the land?".

We can't get angry though (I know it seems like I am, but I'm not, honest), we need to meet whatever bonkers proposal we're served up with sensible and measured counter arguments. The only reason for us to move ground is to make profit on the land we have, profit that we will not see a penny of.

And that is the crux of my opposition to it. Moving an entire football club just so that the owners can make a profit is not an acceptable proposition.

[aftershocker]

And that is the crux of my opposition to it. Moving an entire football club just so that the owners can make a profit is not an acceptable proposition.

the problem with that statement, is that it doesnt reflect reality. If someone (aperson or company) owns something, they can sell it at any time

• there was some discussion over past few weeks that our stadium wont be able to maximise potential income next season as we would not be able to put up temporary stands
• the current ground has had quite a few games called off because of the "frozen strip" in front of the stand - although i understand we may now own covers
• the ground can be extremely windy which can affect games and spoil the spectacle

personally, if the owners (whoever they are) can do some deal whereby we get a new stadium that has capacity to expand....even if only on a temporary basis.....at no cost to the club's day to day business, and as long as its easily accessible, then i dont have a problem with that. we can maybe even squeeze in toilets to allow away supporters to sepnd their money in the club

Edited March 14, 2014 by aftershocker

[Nowhereman]

To be fair, I know our Trust board members quite well and I don't think we need to worry about what they're doing. They have intelligent people there and I can't believe that with all the previous chat about a stadium move that they've been doing nothing. I'm sure info will be forthcoming.

If you remember we've brought up this issue and the issue of our unknown owners on many occasions, but now we seem to have a solid story to work off of. They've been here what 5 years now? And we still don't have a name of a person who heads the company that owns the club, just a randomly generated company name. Now, they've been working hard putting plans in place for a new stadium without uttering a word to the fans and we're supposed just sit back and see how it all pans out?

I've done some digging in the past when this has come up and Denny's Homes have ties to Brabco, some might feel that's normal (maybe it is) but it should make you ask yourself "Do these guys really give a f**k what happens to us after they've made their buck on the land?".

We can't get angry though (I know it seems like I am, but I'm not, honest), we need to meet whatever bonkers proposal we're served up with sensible and measured counter arguments. The only reason for us to move ground is to make profit on the land we have, profit that we will not see a penny of.

My main point was that this is nothing new. The proposal of a ground at Dalmoak is well known and planning for houses at the Rock is nothing new either. Denny Homes is a related company to Brabco and whether or not the current owners would be interested after they have sold the ground who knows. What you can't deny is that since they have owned the club we have certainly been headed in the right direction. We would not be where we are now if Neil Rankine was still the owner.

Like you I see no great need to move ground and agree it is unlikely the profit from a sale would be put back in to the club. But if we were to get a new and better stadium would that make it worth while ? For example if we were to reach the play offs and win them the Rock's capacity is not really good enough for the premiership. Would you not be looking for a bigger ground then ? And while getting in to the premiership might seem like fantasy land I would suggest that this season would have seemed like fantasy land if someone had suggested three years ago that we would be where we are now.

[sonsanorak]

Asset strippers and carpet baggers? dont recognise that description as being the board who ve led the club to this position.

Aye, murrays had an impact but who hired him and supports his work. Looking around the ground it doesnt look like its being starved of attention or money either.

Aye, ask questions. But the guys running the club deserve some credit and the benefit of the doubt.

[Sweet Pete]

the problem with that statement, is that it doesnt reflect reality. If someone (aperson or company) owns something, they can sell it at any time

• there was some discussion over past few weeks that our stadium wont be able to maximise potential income next season as we would not be able to put up temporary stands
• the current ground has had quite a few games called off because of the "frozen strip" in front of the stand - although i understand we may now own covers
• the ground can be extremely windy which can affect games and spoil the spectacle

personally, if the owners (whoever they are) can do some deal whereby we get a new stadium that has capacity to expand....even if only on a temporary basis.....at no cost to the club's day to day business, and as long as its easily accessible, then i dont have a problem with that. we can maybe even squeeze in toilets to allow away supporters to sepnd their money in the club

You're not talking about a lamp or a car though, the "thing" which is being sold is a football stadium, home of that most ethereal and hard to define thing, a football club. A few games getting called off because of a frozen strip is no reason to move, nor is "this ground is sometimes windy". Quite simply, none of the points you put forward in favour of moving are at all severe enough to merit such a substantial upheaval and the wider reaching implications of future uncertainty. Don't just blindly accept things, question them.

[Sweet Pete]

Asset strippers and carpet baggers? dont recognise that description as being the board who ve led the club to this position.

Aye, murrays had an impact but who hired him and supports his work. Looking around the ground it doesnt look like its being starved of attention or money either.

Aye, ask questions. But the guys running the club deserve some credit and the benefit of the doubt.

I wasn't referring to the Board in general, simply the Brabco associated developers and perhaps should have been clearer about that. However, whilst I agree that the club are sitting in rude health on the park, that should not be allowed to hide the fact that the ultimate goal of these people seems to be to sell the club's land for no better reason than personal financial gain.

[aftershocker]

You're not talking about a lamp or a car though, the "thing" which is being sold is a football stadium, home of that most ethereal and hard to define thing, a football club. A few games getting called off because of a frozen strip is no reason to move, nor is "this ground is sometimes windy". Quite simply, none of the points you put forward in favour of moving are at all severe enough to merit such a substantial upheaval and the wider reaching implications of future uncertainty. Don't just blindly accept things, question them.

i dont disagree with your post, however, we have already moved stadium, and was it such a major upheaval?

My point is, if someone can offer us a new stadium that has capacity to expand if needed, and there is no affect on the day to day business of the club....from a players and fans point of view, then why not?

for example, if any new ground had a 4G playing surface, then the club could generate additional income. and yes i know, that could still happen at the Rock....IMHO, i have moved house several times....not really that traumatic a thing to go through

[Sweet Pete]

i dont disagree with your post, however, we have already moved stadium, and was it such a major upheaval?

My point is, if someone can offer us a new stadium that has capacity to expand if needed, and there is no affect on the day to day business of the club....from a players and fans point of view, then why not?

for example, if any new ground had a 4G playing surface, then the club could generate additional income. and yes i know, that could still happen at the Rock....IMHO, i have moved house several times....not really that traumatic a thing to go through

It's nothing to do with trauma, it's purely an issue of necessity. You presumably moved house several times because you were required to do so for whatever reason. You would not move house simply because it was occasionally windy around your current one.

The fact of the matter is that whether we get promoted or not we do not need a larger stadium. There is no minimum limit on seating in the top flight anymore so the stadium we have is perfectly adequate and encourages us to continue living within our means long term, rather than emulating Darlington or the like in the hope that "if we build it, they will come". So what if we can't put up temporary stands to get more away fans in? The chances are we won't get promoted and would be unlikely to stay up for long if we did and promotion carries increased revenue with it anyway by way of TV and prize money. None of that is worth gambling the club's future on.

Everyone thinks the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, but it's only when you take the plunge and gamble that you find out whether it truly is or not, and if it isn't then you've done all that for no feasible gain. The move from Boghead was different, that was essential, this is frivolous.

[The Moonster]

My main point was that this is nothing new. The proposal of a ground at Dalmoak is well known and planning for houses at the Rock is nothing new either. Denny Homes is a related company to Brabco and whether or not the current owners would be interested after they have sold the ground who knows. What you can't deny is that since they have owned the club we have certainly been headed in the right direction. We would not be where we are now if Neil Rankine was still the owner.

Like you I see no great need to move ground and agree it is unlikely the profit from a sale would be put back in to the club. But if we were to get a new and better stadium would that make it worth while ? For example if we were to reach the play offs and win them the Rock's capacity is not really good enough for the premiership. Would you not be looking for a bigger ground then ? And while getting in to the premiership might seem like fantasy land I would suggest that this season would have seemed like fantasy land if someone had suggested three years ago that we would be where we are now.

It might be common knowledge to you and me but a lot of fans know nothing because the club have said nothing, it's that aspect that makes me suspicious of the intention here. If we ever get to the Premiership we can worry about capacity, but are we really now basing our stadium requirements on the extremely unlikely and probably short lived trip to the top league? Look at our history, we go between the bottom leagues with an occasional foray into the 2nd tier. We average about 750/800 home fans. There is just no reason for a bigger, slightly newer stadium other than to give Brabco their pay out. Whats the plan for Brabco after they've sold the land?

Asset strippers and carpet baggers? dont recognise that description as being the board who ve led the club to this position.

Aye, murrays had an impact but who hired him and supports his work. Looking around the ground it doesnt look like its being starved of attention or money either.

Aye, ask questions. But the guys running the club deserve some credit and the benefit of the doubt.

Like Pete, its purely our owners my issue is with here. At least we have the names of the people on our board. The whole thing reeks of fans getting shafted. Lets see what they are proposing. Edited March 14, 2014 by The Moonster

[O'Kelly Isley III]

It might be common knowledge to you and me but a lot of fans know nothing because the club have said nothing, it's that aspect that makes me suspicious of the intention here. If we ever get to the Premiership we can worry about capacity, but are we really now basing our stadium requirements on the extremely unlikely and probably short lived trip to the top league? Look at our history, we go between the bottom leagues with an occasional foray into the 2nd tier. We average about 750/800 home fans. There is just no reason for a bigger, slightly newer stadium other than to give Brabco their pay out. Whats the plan for Brabco after they've sold the land?

Like Pete, its purely our owners my issue is with here. At least we have the names of the people on our board. The whole thing reeks of fans getting shafted. Lets see what they are proposing.

That, my young friend, is the absolute crux of the matter, ie what is the future ownership of the club ?

I note too people are asking about Trust involvement/knowledge on this issue, presumably specifically referring to the Community Director. Let's just say that communication at DFC Board level can be something of a Venn diagram, and Board meetings are sometimes held at odd times, eg weekday afternoons, when everyone can't attend.

I'm sure there's nothing sinister in it.

[Nowhereman]

It might be common knowledge to you and me but a lot of fans know nothing because the club have said nothing, it's that aspect that makes me suspicious of the intention here. If we ever get to the Premiership we can worry about capacity, but are we really now basing our stadium requirements on the extremely unlikely and probably short lived trip to the top league? Look at our history, we go between the bottom leagues with an occasional foray into the 2nd tier. We average about 750/800 home fans. There is just no reason for a bigger, slightly newer stadium other than to give Brabco their pay out. Whats the plan for Brabco after they've sold the land?

Like Pete, its purely our owners my issue is with here. At least we have the names of the people on our board. The whole thing reeks of fans getting shafted. Lets see what they are proposing.

I agree with that. But if we did get a better stadium would it not be worth it ? As for the fans being shafted in what way would they be shafted ?

[Sweet Pete]

I agree with that. But if we did get a better stadium would it not be worth it ? As for the fans being shafted in what way would they be shafted ?

But we don't need a "BETTER" stadium! That's the bleedin' point.