O'Kelly Isley III Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 I'm not disputing that. My point was more that any land sale, and subsequent profit, is unlikely to benefit the club. On the Brabco/Denny Holmes issues; is it inconceivable to suggest that those involved are using the Denny Holmes company as a mechanism to gaining planning consent, with a view to approaching appropriate third parties thereafter? Land with approved planning consent is far more valuable than land with potential for planning approval. Absolutely spot-on Jordo, this planning application, if granted, will simply be used as a vehicle for Brabco to achieve their original aim of selling the land for housing. 'Denny Homes is their decoy; it will not lay a brick but will offload the site to one of any number of parties, although the land would not reach the original valuation in the current climate. This all dovetails with the hints and whispers of 'parking problems', 'bad neighbours', etc., bizarrely mostly emanating from within DFC; it has been the equivalent of taking a hatchet to your own floorboards. In other words there has been a concerted effort to talk DFC out of a perfectly fit for purpose, if modest, facility in order to turn a coin which will enable a new ground to be built whilst leaving profit to be skimmed off. Now I don't know about you guys, but the first bit of that equation, eg planning and consent and sale of land looks a whole lot more doable than the new facility bit. There is already wild talk of a ground near Kilmalid with retail facilities and a hotel complex - has no-one looked at Kilmarnock's woes - and I really fear that the elephant on the DFC badge could very soon turn out to be white. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Why bother creating a company to apply for planning permission ? Anyone can apply for planning permission so Brabco could do that themselves if they wanted to make the land more attractive. Anyway if there were a decent chance of a third party building they would probably apply themselves. Seems to me that Denny are applying because no one else is interested 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aftershocker Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Why bother creating a company to apply for planning permission ? Anyone can apply for planning permission so Brabco could do that themselves if they wanted to make the land more attractive. Anyway if there were a decent chance of a third party building they would probably apply themselves. Seems to me that Denny are applying because no one else is interested as i understand it, these businessmen guys quite often set up a number of different companies and split their assets between them. this means if one part gets into trouble it doesn't drag the rest down, so Denny applying may be simply that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 as i understand it, these businessmen guys quite often set up a number of different companies and split their assets between them. this means if one part gets into trouble it doesn't drag the rest down, so Denny applying may be simply that? Nah, it sounds to me more like they're looking to keep things in house and take care of the development works themselves if possible. They then have greater control over profitability. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I wouldn't be dead against a move, but I'm not particularly for it. Our ground is fine - decent stand and ideal location for access. If we're moving then where could we realistically move to? One of the sites of the 2 schools that the council are trying to replace? I'd be absolutely opposed to any option that sees us move from Dumbarton until a new ground is built. We shouldn't be moved until we know where we're going and a new ground is in place. Being passed around our various neighbours isnt even remotely acceptable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 What happens in ten years time? If the new ground is owned outright and the land is worth a few bob do we just sell that and move again? It's fucking ridiculous. Even if we made a packet out of a move and reinvested it into the playing side, we would only be getting temporary benefit from it as we are not a big enough club to climb much further than we already have. Short term gain is a ridiculous thing to gamble a club's future on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I agree Pete. If they can re-invest in facilities then it's one thing but blowing any money on a short term boost to the squad would be madness. We need to be settled in a ground that meets our needs. The only thing we'd possibly benefit from is better facilities for hospitality. Our ground is fine for matchdays for most fans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aftershocker Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 What happens in ten years time? If the new ground is owned outright and the land is worth a few bob do we just sell that and move again? It's fucking ridiculous. Even if we made a packet out of a move and reinvested it into the playing side, we would only be getting temporary benefit from it as we are not a big enough club to climb much further than we already have. Short term gain is a ridiculous thing to gamble a club's future on. but surely if we gain (rather than lose) what is the problem i also like our current ground, but if the club / board can produce a new one, with say a 4G pitch that can generate more funds for the club, then why not? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 as i understand it, these businessmen guys quite often set up a number of different companies and split their assets between them. this means if one part gets into trouble it doesn't drag the rest down, so Denny applying may be simply that? I would be astonished if Denny Homes had any assets 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 but surely if we gain (rather than lose) what is the problem i also like our current ground, but if the club / board can produce a new one, with say a 4G pitch that can generate more funds for the club, then why not? Because we simply don't need to. If we were in a position where investment or redevelopment were necessary then of course I would be in favour of this, bu the fact of the matter is that there is no good reason for us to move other than to line the pockets of the majority shareholders. Our current ground is only 13 years old and has never been filled, so there is no reason whatsoever, even if it would put a few quid in the bank, for us to move to a new ground with three times the capacity. The fact that we are sitting on a very valuable piece of land and are solvent is the very essence of why we should not entertain a move. Wait and sit on this land and at some point in the future we may need to generate income and then we are golden. By selling now when we do not require to we do our future a disservice. Why on earth would we look to sell when it serves no useful purpose to us? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Because we simply don't need to. If we were in a position where investment or redevelopment were necessary then of course I would be in favour of this, bu the fact of the matter is that there is no good reason for us to move other than to line the pockets of the majority shareholders. Our current ground is only 13 years old and has never been filled, so there is no reason whatsoever, even if it would put a few quid in the bank, for us to move to a new ground with three times the capacity. The fact that we are sitting on a very valuable piece of land and are solvent is the very essence of why we should not entertain a move. Wait and sit on this land and at some point in the future we may need to generate income and then we are golden. By selling now when we do not require to we do our future a disservice. Why on earth would we look to sell when it serves no useful purpose to us? Exactly this. We're in a great position for a club our size, the land will most likely increase in value in the years to come, if we really want to make a profit off that then stay where we are for the foreseeable future and assess the situation in a few years. What's happening here is our owners wanting to cash in on their investment when it's not in the best interests of the club and it also gives them an exit strategy which could leave us stuck in no-mans land if we're not careful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Exactly this. We're in a great position for a club our size, the land will most likely increase in value in the years to come, if we really want to make a profit off that then stay where we are for the foreseeable future and assess the situation in a few years. What's happening here is our owners wanting to cash in on their investment when it's not in the best interests of the club and it also gives them an exit strategy which could leave us stuck in no-mans land if we're not careful. By the same token if the owners ( who are only there to make money, not for the love of the club ) do not get the opportunity to make a profit they may lose interest and try to sell and we could end up in the same situation that we were in the latter years of Neil Rankine's ownership ie completely rudderless and going nowhere 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 By the same token if the owners ( who are only there to make money, not for the love of the club ) do not get the opportunity to make a profit they may lose interest and try to sell and we could end up in the same situation that we were in the latter years of Neil Rankine's ownership ie completely rudderless and going nowhere Don't start letting doubts like that creep in, that will get folk thinking we need to take this deal and go with it to avoid something worse, when in reality we should be resisting any sale and move proposal strenuously. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aftershocker Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I would be astonished if Denny Homes had any assets they don't need to.....but presumably one of the Brabco companies would transfer the flats (if they get built) to Denny Homes? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 In the paper that Aggy has a suspected hernia and will be out for 6-8 weeks. Bad news that couldn't have came at a worse time with Shugs injury aswell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the snudge Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Can we still play trialists? Stephen Hughes is out of work and would plug a gap for a few weeks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Would make sense to move Linton into central midfield (his natural position) and restore Smith to left back. Horrendous news that Aggy and Shug could be out for two months. I'd expect Murray to look for some sort of emergency loan type deal to cover us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Aitken's Love Child Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Sons fans, what was Adam Ashgar like in his loan spell with the club last season? It appears that he's on trial with us at the moment, and played for the reserves yesterday. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Sons fans, what was Adam Ashgar like in his loan spell with the club last season? It appears that he's on trial with us at the moment, and played for the reserves yesterday. Used sparingly from the bench, really didn't see enough of him to comment on his ability. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naught A Chance Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Think he played about a total of 20 mins in his time with us so couldnt really comment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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