Sons' sorrow

[lionel wickson]

8 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Like George Parr, I've not received a letter or an email to either of my email addresses, nor has there been a post on the Trust website since June 2020. In which manner was this letter communicated?

E-mail

[The Moonster]

9 minutes ago, lionel wickson said:

E-mail

In that case I am officially out the loop

 

[Nowhereman]

In a nutshell the new owners are determined to sell up and move to the Renton and Andy Hosie is behind it all

[O'Kelly Isley III]

I attach the letter which was sent out earlier today.  

Sonstrust Letter to Members Oct 2021.pdf

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Well colour me shocked that our new owners became involved for one reason and one reason only and that all the bullshit they tried to feed us about climbing the leagues and utilising Mr Norway’s extensive international footballing contacts was indeed bullshit. This is Brabco 2.0 and don’t anyone kid yourself on that they give a flying f**k about the best interests of DFC. The whole thing is just completely tiresome and boring now.

The fact they haven’t remotely tried to communicate with suppporters, bar the aforementioned bullshit about international contacts and full-time football etc, should have had alarm bells ringing from the start.

[BallochSonsFan]

8 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

Well colour me shocked that our new owners became involved for one reason and one reason only and that all the bullshit they tried to feed us about climbing the leagues and utilising Mr Norway’s extensive international footballing contacts was indeed bullshit. This is Brabco 2.0 and don’t anyone kid yourself on that they give a flying f**k about the best interests of DFC. The whole thing is just completely tiresome and boring now.

The fact they haven’t remotely tried to communicate with suppporters, bar the aforementioned bullshit about international contacts and full-time football etc, should have had alarm bells ringing from the start.

Nobody buys a club like Dumbarton unless its for 1 of 2 reasons:

- They're a local guy done good who wants to do something for his home town.

- Somebody sees the chance to make money.

Unfortunately for us we have too few of the former and football sadly has no shortage of the latter. In theory there's nothing inherently wrong with an owner making money form Dumbarton but we absolutely have to make sure that it's not done at the expense of, or harm to, Dumbarton. The previous incarnation of Brabco in general, and Ian Wilson in particular, never really bought into the idea that if they were going to make the move to Youngs Farm work then they'd need local support. Hopefully Henning Kristofferson doesn't repeat the same mistakes that Brabco made and takes on board that it's possible for a good outcome for both the owners and the football club. Engaging with the fans in a transparent and constructive way really has to underpin everything he does. Hopefully he realises that and we start to see some progress towards genuinely open and constructive relationships between the owner, the club and the fans. If we don't then our latest owners are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past decade.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

5 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

The previous incarnation of Brabco in general, and Ian Wilson in particular, never really bought into the idea that if they were going to make the move to Youngs Farm work then they'd need local support.

“When it was put to Mr Kristoffersen that after almost ten-years of this project dominating the affairs of Dumbarton FC, there was very little residual enthusiasm either in the club’s support base or the wider local community for this project, he appeared unmoved.”

It doesn’t sound like he really cares about local support tbh and there is no evidence since he appeared on the scene to suggest that this will change any time soon.

8 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Engaging with the fans in a transparent and constructive way really has to underpin everything he does. Hopefully he realises that and we start to see some progress towards genuinely open and constructive relationships between the owner, the club and the fans. If we don't then our latest owners are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past decade.

They arrived during a global pandemic and since they have arrived we have had boardroom reshuffles and a manager change and we haven’t heard a peep from them. Once again there is nothing there to suggest that is likely to change anytime soon. 

The fact that Andy Hosie is heavily involved in the background is also a major red flag. Anyone working closely with him to make money is either stupid or as crooked as him.

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Nobody buys a club like Dumbarton unless its for 1 of 2 reasons:

- They're a local guy done good who wants to do something for his home town.

- Somebody sees the chance to make money.

Unfortunately for us we have too few of the former and football sadly has no shortage of the latter. In theory there's nothing inherently wrong with an owner making money form Dumbarton but we absolutely have to make sure that it's not done at the expense of, or harm to, Dumbarton. The previous incarnation of Brabco in general, and Ian Wilson in particular, never really bought into the idea that if they were going to make the move to Youngs Farm work then they'd need local support. Hopefully Henning Kristofferson doesn't repeat the same mistakes that Brabco made and takes on board that it's possible for a good outcome for both the owners and the football club. Engaging with the fans in a transparent and constructive way really has to underpin everything he does. Hopefully he realises that and we start to see some progress towards genuinely open and constructive relationships between the owner, the club and the fans. If we don't then our latest owners are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past decade.

He's not even said hello and has already started moving our assets around. He has no intention of engaging with fans. This is a complete shafting happening in front of us, no doubt about it. He's not repeating the same mistakes Brabco did, at least Brabco were honest in that they didn't give a f**k about the football side and would leave it alone. Henning has already gave us the "bullshit fans want to hear" stuff with full time football and global scouting networks.

Andy Gordon and Graham Casey leaving says much more about this to me than Steele leaving does. Both of those guys were not long appointed to those positions and have given the club an absolutely huge amount of time, effort, services and money. The fact that our board stuck it out against Brabco but are now jumping ship a mere few months after Henning took over suggests to me that we are already fucked. If it was just the intention to move us, why wouldn't these guys stay and fight against it like they did with Brabco? Something has already happened that has forced these guys out the door. 

Hosie having any sort of power down there is fucking criminal. Mind when folk told us not to worry because the Hosie's are a great bunch of lads?

 

 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

9 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Mind when folk told us not to worry because the Hosie's are a great bunch of lads?

Good, honest Dumbarton boays. 

[Skyline Drifter]

I never understood the whole notion of a "network of Scandanavian football contacts" anyway. It was almost like everyone either forgot Brexit happened or thought the town of Dumbarton was outwith the trade labour market restraints the rest of us now work to somehow.

We're not in the EC any more. You can't employ non British (or Irish) passport holders without a work permit which you are not easily going to get for non international standard footballers. It took Rangers about 3 months to get one for their reserve striker Juan Alegria (guy who scored twice at Alloa last night) and that's with all their resources and, with the greatest of respect, a far more prominent prospect than was ever likely to pitch up at Dumbarton.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

3 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I never understood the whole notion of a "network of Scandanavian football contacts" anyway. It was almost like everyone either forgot Brexit happened or thought the town of Dumbarton was outwith the trade labour market restraints the rest of us now work to somehow.

We're not in the EC any more. You can't employ non British (or Irish) passport holders without a work permit which you are not easily going to get for non international standard footballers. It took Rangers about 3 months to get one for their reserve striker Juan Alegria (guy who scored twice at Alloa last night) and that's with all their resources and, with the greatest of respect, a far more prominent prospect than was ever likely to pitch up at Dumbarton.

To be fair, this whole thing was pretty well discussed on here by our supporters, no one actually expected these foreign players to arrive. It was just really poor and ill thought out drivel that the owners spouted to try and dupe our support.

[the snudge]

As soon as they set up a company named "MoreHome DFC" you know they're at it. 

We know it but the question is what do we do about it?

[BallochSonsFan]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

He's not even said hello and has already started moving our assets around. He has no intention of engaging with fans. This is a complete shafting happening in front of us, no doubt about it. He's not repeating the same mistakes Brabco did, at least Brabco were honest in that they didn't give a f**k about the football side and would leave it alone. Henning has already gave us the "bullshit fans want to hear" stuff with full time football and global scouting networks.

Andy Gordon and Graham Casey leaving says much more about this to me than Steele leaving does. Both of those guys were not long appointed to those positions and have given the club an absolutely huge amount of time, effort, services and money. The fact that our board stuck it out against Brabco but are now jumping ship a mere few months after Henning took over suggests to me that we are already fucked. If it was just the intention to move us, why wouldn't these guys stay and fight against it like they did with Brabco? Something has already happened that has forced these guys out the door. 

Hosie having any sort of power down there is fucking criminal. Mind when folk told us not to worry because the Hosie's are a great bunch of lads?

 

 

There's a limit to what a majority shareholder can do in terms of moving assets. If it's against the best interests of the club then directors have an obligation to block those moves or face being in breach of their fiduciary duties under company law. Clearly there are ways and means for club owners to screw clubs over. We've seen it often enough and we've had the misfortune of Brabco's decade of disarray. It can happen but not easily. We've got the added complication of the C share status and how they would impact on anything Kristofferson wanted to do.

If Kristofferson engages with the trust in the immediate future then it would be a step forward. By no means a guaranteed good thing, but at least a step forward. We'll see what happens in the next few weeks as to whether or not he's willing to take that step or if he'll simply believe that he can plough ahead with whatever he's planning without the support of either the club or the fans. If its the latter then he'd do well to remember that he's in the position of owning the majority interest in the club because the last incumbents of that position failed to get what they wanted.

[Turnberry Fields Forever]

From the limited amount I've picked up it sounds like Hosie has done a sales job on the Norwegian. That could backfire as it is difficult to see what has changed to get planning permission for this new stadium.  What happens then ?

[BallochSonsFan]

2 hours ago, Turnberry Fields Forever said:

From the limited amount I've picked up it sounds like Hosie has done a sales job on the Norwegian. That could backfire as it is difficult to see what has changed to get planning permission for this new stadium.  What happens then ?

Brabco eventually settled on plan C. Plan A didnt work (funding everything through the sale of the current ground). Plan B didnt work ("enabling development"). Plan C was the only one that looked even remotely viable (houses) but even that had its problems and couldn't overcome them. If nothing changes then whatever Kristofferon's plan is - or should we perhaps say Hosie's plan D? - then it's going to end up exactly the same way..

Failure.

It won't stop him trying. I just hope that he learns from the mistakes of his predecessors and doesnt repeat them. Sure as night follows day then he'll fail too and  we'll move on to the next shambolic effort to make money from our club. He repeats the mistakes of Stainton, Wilson et al and he'll have exactly the same outcome.

[Howlin' Wilf]

On 28/10/2021 at 16:57, The Moonster said:

Hosie having any sort of power down there is fucking criminal. Mind when folk told us not to worry because the Hosie's are a great bunch of lads?

 

 

To be fair, I don’t recall anyone saying that. I think those of us who remembered  John Hosie and his immense contribution to Dumbarton FC from the 1950s through the 60s and 70s thought initially, that his son and grandson might be people who had DFC at heart. John Hosie was “Secretary” of the club but he was in fact much more than that. He was CEO, Human Resources Officer and Director of Football. He was also repair man, janitor and floor sweeper. I knew him personally and he was a determined, focussed and often grumpy wee man. He was in charge at the club during its most successful years (by far)  of the 20 the century. Under normal circumstances, one might think that a grandson of such a person might not be a bad guy to be involved - particularly with his uncle having served the club well too. Many clubs have had successive generations involved in admin and ownership. In the clear majority of cases that has meant sons and grandsons honouring family tradition and trying to act in the best interests of that club. I think many of us hoped that would be the case at Dumbarton.

[Deputy Keeper]

5 hours ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

To be fair, I don’t recall anyone saying that. I think those of us who remembered  John Hosie and his immense contribution to Dumbarton FC from the 1950s through the 60s and 70s thought initially, that his son and grandson might be people who had DFC at heart. John Hosie was “Secretary” of the club but he was in fact much more than that. He was CEO, Human Resources Officer and Director of Football. He was also repair man, janitor and floor sweeper. I knew him personally and he was a determined, focussed and often grumpy wee man. He was in charge at the club during its most successful years (by far)  of the 20 the century. Under normal circumstances, one might think that a grandson of such a person might not be a bad guy to be involved - particularly with his uncle having served the club well too. Many clubs have had successive generations involved in admin and ownership. In the clear majority of cases that has meant sons and grandsons honouring family tradition and trying to act in the best interests of that club. I think many of us hoped that would be the case at Dumbarton.

Can only echo what Wilf has said about John Hosie.  A well-respected figure throughout Scottish football, who made an immense contribution to Dumbarton FC.  His son is also a Sons man through and through, who has served the Club well for many years.  As for John's nephew...........sadly that's a different story!

[Howlin' Wilf]

11 minutes ago, Deputy Keeper said:

Can only echo what Wilf has said about John Hosie.  A well-respected figure throughout Scottish football, who made an immense contribution to Dumbarton FC.  His son is also a Sons man through and through, who has served the Club well for many years.  As for John's nephew...........sadly that's a different story!

Aye sorry nephew not grandson.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Being of a certain age I can wholly concur with the posts above regarding the late John Hosie and his son Colin.  It is one of the more disturbing facets of the current situation at DFC that Andy Hosie, a man possessing seemingly little of the passion, understanding and perceived business integrity of his relations, is nevertheless trading heavily on the family name and its historic connection with the club.

There is also for me real disappointment in the wider sense.  There was, and still possibly is, the chance that comes say once every 150 years for towns like Dumbarton to create something special in such a historic and impressive location.  The Rock, floodlit from a football ground with daytime visitor facilities, the walkway along the River Leven connecting the town centre with the peninsula, all with landscaped surrounds.

That would obviously have required funding but even more importantly vision.  Vision on the part of the ownership and Board of Directors of DFC; vision on the part of the agency responsible for Dumbarton Rock; vision on the part of West Dunbartonshire Council, local economic agencies and local parliamentary representatives. 

The starting point for all of it would be some sort of Strategy Document and indeed one was created a few years back by a former DFC Board member, but unfortunately it failed to gain any traction in the Boardroom.  A Boardroom that has for far too long operated more on the basis of a private members golf club than a professional football club.  And when you lack a culture of dynamism you can become seduced by strangers bearing exotic ideas.  QED.

We have a cash-strapped local authority probably itching to have yet more houses bumping up against the Rock - they generate council tax so who can blame them ?  And yet you wonder.  How did the Falkirk area manage to generate the Falkirk Wheel and the Kelpies with their nearby faclities ?  How have Clydebank FC managed to revamp Holm Park in Yoker ?  Because people with ideas, vision and commitment worked very, very hard to achieve results.

In the case of the Bankies they learned from a bitter experience, and it's one that Dumbarton FC currently risks following.  When guys like the two Associate Directors resign, a warning alarm sounds.  The club stands at a crucial juncture under ownership which is intent on marching down a dead end for a second time.  It's what happens then that is the worry.

 

 

[Boghead ranter]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

.  How did the Falkirk area manage to generate the Falkirk Wheel and the Kelpies with their nearby faclities ? 

If you had sight of my council tax bills over the years, you'd know the answer