Sons' sorrow

[the snudge]

Say for talks sake, Carswell works in a care home and plays part time for sons. He contracts covid 19 through work but stopped off for a coffee with his family without knowing he was infected. Gets tested, gets tracked and traced. Isolates. Would Dumbarton be subject to the same breach and fine that Celtic and Aberdeen have had? 

[pleslie99]

3 minutes ago, the snudge said:

Say for talks sake, Carswell works in a care home and plays part time for sons. He contracts covid 19 through work but stopped off for a coffee with his family without knowing he was infected. Gets tested, gets tracked and traced. Isolates. Would Dumbarton be subject to the same breach and fine that Celtic and Aberdeen have had? 

I dont think so, my understanding is that because premiership clubs are full time they are confined to a strict bubble and therfore have restrictions on what they can and cannot do outwith the football club. Part time clubs will not have the same restrictions as it is assumed the players will be working other jobs. 

That being said, if we had a player who blatantly broke the governmemts restrictions such as did not quarantine after being abroad or held a house party etc. I assume we, as a club, would feel the full force of both the SFA and Scottish government. 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

3 hours ago, The Moonster said:

Question for anyone with knowledge of these AI cameras - is there any scope to actually just have a guy controlling it? Getting a bit worried about the quality of stream I'm seeing at other clubs, the Stenny match in particular is unwatchable. The camera just pans out and its impossible to see who's on the ball, pretty poor quality picture too if I'm honest. Feels a bit like we've been sold a prototype that isn't quite ready for mass use.

The club has my money and I won't be asking for it back regardless but for it to be a success I think you'll need a better service than I'm seeing. 

I think it’s strictly automatic but the camera can be calibrated to adjust things like colour correction, gain etc. 

I’ll be honest, I’m not a fan of what I’ve seen at all and when the camera is in the correct position it’s incredibly hard to see whats going on because it’s far too wide. I’m not sure if it can zoom in any further or not but that’s the main issue for me. In it’s current guise folk will get bored after a couple of games IMO. I’ve watched plenty of streams from lower league football in the past, and whilst some are superior to others, you can at least see what’s happening in the game. Perhaps having commentry over it will help. 

Here’s highlights from Stenny V K€lty H£art$ for anyone who wants a swatch of the new system 

 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

53 minutes ago, the snudge said:

Say for talks sake, Carswell works in a care home and plays part time for sons. He contracts covid 19 through work but stopped off for a coffee with his family without knowing he was infected. Gets tested, gets tracked and traced. Isolates. Would Dumbarton be subject to the same breach and fine that Celtic and Aberdeen have had? 

I mean catching covid at work is a bit different from going to Spain, not telling anyone or isolating upon return and continuing to train and play. In terms of the Aberdeen thing, rules will be different for part-time clubs, simply because they have to be. You can’t enforce such rules on guys who are working away from football etc. 

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

I think it’s strictly automatic but the camera can be calibrated to adjust things like colour correction, gain etc. 

I’ll be honest, I’m not a fan of what I’ve seen at all and when the camera is in the correct position it’s incredibly hard to see whats going on because it’s far too wide. I’m not sure if it can zoom in any further or not but that’s the main issue for me. In it’s current guise folk will get bored after a couple of games IMO. I’ve watched plenty of streams from lower league football in the past, and whilst some are superior to others, you can at least see what’s happening in the game. Perhaps having commentry over it will help. 

Here’s highlights from Stenny V K€lty H£art$ for anyone who wants a swatch of the new system 

 

I'd agree with that, when the ball is at either end the camera really needs to zoom into the action, too far out to see whats going on.

[sirscottyoung]

Chris Hamilton incoming from hearts 

[Jan Vojáček]

8 minutes ago, sirscottyoung said:

Chris Hamilton incoming from hearts 

Our attempts to rebuild Cowdenbeath's team from last season are just missing big Mango.

On the Pixellot front, just to settle everyone a wee bit. The camera was only connected on Friday afternoon and we ran the test on Saturday totally remotely. Everything was set up from home and Pixellot haven't fully calibrated the camera yet afaik. 

I watched the whole game on it and, to be honest, it went far better than I was expecting. Yes there were times where the camera got distracted, yes there were times where it was slow, but for the most part it was decent. There were issues with the contrast, and fixing them I'm hoping will lead to some of the ball following issues being fixed too.

Our goal wasn't captured well on it, but BSC's was - so I've attached it below. Woeful defending mind you, but Agyeman was excellent throughout the whole game. There's a full report in tomorrow's Lennox too

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Jan Vojáček

[super-son]

1 hour ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

I think it’s strictly automatic but the camera can be calibrated to adjust things like colour correction, gain etc. 

I’ll be honest, I’m not a fan of what I’ve seen at all and when the camera is in the correct position it’s incredibly hard to see whats going on because it’s far too wide. I’m not sure if it can zoom in any further or not but that’s the main issue for me. In it’s current guise folk will get bored after a couple of games IMO. I’ve watched plenty of streams from lower league football in the past, and whilst some are superior to others, you can at least see what’s happening in the game. Perhaps having commentry over it will help. 

Here’s highlights from Stenny V K€lty H£art$ for anyone who wants a swatch of the new system 

 

I think I could maybe just about put up with the quality in the highlights there but the clip of the goal I seen on our Instagram yesterday was totally unacceptable.

There was no way that you could make out the ball and it would be extremely frustrating to watch that for 90 minutes. There has to be some form of zoom function or it is going to be totally pointless for us, especially as it is mounted at the back of the stand.

[super-son]

39 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

Our attempts to rebuild Cowdenbeath's team from last season are just missing big Mango.

On the Pixellot front, just to settle everyone a wee bit. The camera was only connected on Friday afternoon and we ran the test on Saturday totally remotely. Everything was set up from home and Pixellot haven't fully calibrated the camera yet afaik. 

I watched the whole game on it and, to be honest, it went far better than I was expecting. Yes there were times where the camera got distracted, yes there were times where it was slow, but for the most part it was decent. There were issues with the contrast, and fixing them I'm hoping will lead to some of the ball following issues being fixed too.

Our goal wasn't captured well on it, but BSC's was - so I've attached it below. Woeful defending mind you, but Agyeman was excellent throughout the whole game. There's a full report in tomorrow's Lennox too

 

Just seen this now, That does look a lot better than what I was expecting having watched the small clip of our goal on the instagram.

[Jan Vojáček]

Just now, super-son said:

Just seen this now, That does look a lot better than what I was expecting having watched the small clip of our goal on the instagram.

The goal didn't really do it justice. It had panned round to get the ball going out of play and Crossan retrieving it, and was zoomed out to capture him taking the corner. It's the sort of thing that we'll hopefully be able to refine and is why testing it at the weekend was so useful. It's also why we wanted the first test to be behind closed doors, because if things went badly wrong then we could avoid a mass panic.

I just went on Insta for a look, and I know what you mean. The chances of anyone watching a whole game with their phone in portrait mode is low though. In fact I'm not even sure it's possible, I think it automatically goes full screen.

Saturday wasn't perfect, as I said, but given it's the first time we've ever done anything like this - and we were spread between G82/Milngavie/Glasgow/Crieff and Dundee, I think it went pretty well. I wouldn't fancy doing a match report based on a stream every week mind you - far more concentrating needed than if you're at the game!

[the snudge]

Is it going to be available on an app or is it through the browser?

[Jan Vojáček]

1 minute ago, the snudge said:

Is it going to be available on an app or is it through the browser?

Should be both. I tested it on Chrome at the weekend (and my laptop is quite old and slow) and all went fine. The hosting website is optimised for mobile and seemed to work well on that, but I think it can/will be broadcast on the Pixellot app too.

[Sub-Keeper]

Off topic, but just seen this article on BBC Sport about the role of a Club Chaplain with our new chaplain.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54283403

[lionel wickson]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-youngsters-connor-smith-and-chris-hamilton-leaving-loan-2985373%3famp

[microdave]

10 minutes ago, lionel wickson said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-youngsters-connor-smith-and-chris-hamilton-leaving-loan-2985373%3famp

I think we've found a website more annoying than the Daily Record for pop ups.

[Skyline Drifter]

On 26/09/2020 at 18:17, RandomGuy. said:

Is it not a case of asking the clubs how long they could survive in the very real scenario that they go a full season without paying fans this season?

We'll be lucky to see season ticket holders in the ground by March, and if its only them allowed in, then thats a massive drain on the club which increases your losses.

If clubs don't think they can survive the entire season on PPV then an alternative needs found before the season starts.

Such as an alternative reality?

It is what it is. They cope until there are fans or they say now they can't play and mothball for a year. In point of fact that should have been long before now. No point deciding now a week before we start and after everyone has recruited players that you can't cope. Clubs knew when they voted to come back that attendances would be restricted, likely below season ticket levels, for a long time, perhaps well into 2021. If they can't cope with that they shouldn't have said they could.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Skyline Drifter

[pleslie99]

On another note, the season hasn't even kicked off, and by the looks of the footage from the goal on Saturday, the pitch looks like its taken a tanking. Maybe Buster was right to jump ship, if it continues there will be no grass on it come November!

[Dumbarton Rock]

I did try and warn them but it fell on deaf ears, Morton are training on theirs 5 days a week. Good luck to that groundsman as well.

On another note, the season hasn't even kicked off, and by the looks of the footage from the goal on Saturday, the pitch looks like its taken a tanking. Maybe Buster was right to jump ship, if it continues there will be no grass on it come November!

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Such as an alternative reality?
It is what it is. They cope until there are fans or they say now they can't play and mothball for a year. In point of fact that should have been long before now. No point deciding now a week before we start and after everyone has recruited players that you can't cope. Clubs knew when they voted to come back that attendances would be restricted, likely below season ticket levels, for a long time, perhaps well into 2021. If they can't cope with that they shouldn't have said they could.

I think that's a bit harsh. Until quite recently clubs had been planning for some time based on a situation of limited attendances at matches. Suddenly however the goalposts were moved - no pun intended - and we are now looking at no supporter attendance for the foreseeable future. All of that would be understandable if there were clear reasons for the policy change - and a few idiot Aberdeen players and a tosser at Celtic certainly don't constitute that - so are we now saying that clubs should have had a crystal ball ? It's utter bollocks, when folk can spill out of pubs half-jaked at 10pm, hugging, kissing and whatever and 400 masked, socially-distanced fans can't attend a match in the fresh air.

[Skyline Drifter]

14 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

2 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Such as an alternative reality?
It is what it is. They cope until there are fans or they say now they can't play and mothball for a year. In point of fact that should have been long before now. No point deciding now a week before we start and after everyone has recruited players that you can't cope. Clubs knew when they voted to come back that attendances would be restricted, likely below season ticket levels, for a long time, perhaps well into 2021. If they can't cope with that they shouldn't have said they could.

I think that's a bit harsh. Until quite recently clubs had been planning for some time based on a situation of limited attendances at matches. Suddenly however the goalposts were moved - no pun intended - and we are now looking at no supporter attendance for the foreseeable future. All of that would be understandable if there were clear reasons for the policy change - and a few idiot Aberdeen players and a tosser at Celtic certainly don't constitute that - so are we now saying that clubs should have had a crystal ball ? It's utter bollocks, when folk can spill out of pubs half-jaked at 10pm, hugging, kissing and whatever and 400 masked, socially-distanced fans can't attend a match in the fresh air.

But it's NOT a moving of the goalposts. Nor was any crystal ball needed. I guarantee you clubs were told when they voted to return in October that they should plan for no crowds this side of Xmas and anything earlier should be considered a bonus. They voted to come back on that basis. Whether or not it's fair that people can go to pubs but not football grounds is an entirely separate debate. Fact is clubs voted to come back having been told to expect not only that they'd have no income to Xmas but also that they'd have to test players twice a week. The latter part isn't currently the case so they are actually better off than they were warned to be. Wailing that they now can't afford it doesn't really wash then. If that's the case they also couldn't afford it when they voted to do it too.

If as you say clubs were planning on "limited attendances" then hell mend them. It did look for a period that we might get some and perhaps some were daft enough to move their budgets thinking it would be the case, but this was entirely foreseeable.

EDITED to add - 400 masked and distanced fans won't help either unless that's above your season ticket numbers. If that's all your are allowed then that just adds costs to steward them and get them in without any extra income. It's walk up income you need to be allowed or you might as well have none.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Skyline Drifter