Sons' sorrow

[BallochSonsFan]

1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

The only way that works is to go almost completely amateur. Streaming won't bring in that kind of money.

If we won't get enough fans paying for streams then we're screwed. Game over. Last one put lights out and hand the keys over to Brabco. The club needs money. There's no other way of dressing it up. Fans need to realise where we are. We can't sustain losses. We need to get as close as possible breaking even and if we can't do that then anything more than a small loss would end us. 

We need streaming to work. We need fans buying season tickets. We need pay as you go fans to buy streams on a game by game basis. We need to replace matchday income from pie stand, 50/50 sales, the bar and hospitality. If we can't do that then we won't see out the season and we won't be alone in that position. 

[Sergeant Wilson]

18 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

If we won't get enough fans paying for streams then we're screwed. Game over. Last one put lights out and hand the keys over to Brabco. The club needs money. There's no other way of dressing it up. Fans need to realise where we are. We can't sustain losses. We need to get as close as possible breaking even and if we can't do that then anything more than a small loss would end us. 

We need streaming to work. We need fans buying season tickets. We need pay as you go fans to buy streams on a game by game basis. We need to replace matchday income from pie stand, 50/50 sales, the bar and hospitality. If we can't do that then we won't see out the season and we won't be alone in that position. 

See you at Yoker then.

[BallochSonsFan]

4 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

See you at Yoker then.

Would be Newlandsfield for me. 

[Jordo1872]

Streaming is probably the primary hope for generating revenue but it can’t be the only one. Whether we like it or not there is going to come a point where fans, sponsors or any other willing party will have to contribute to some form of support fund with not much back in terms of value. Some will be in a position to help, others won’t for a variety of personally valid reasons. The question then is do we have a wider network of supporters and benefactors to survive. The optimist in me says yes, but I do have doubts.

What other options are available? Well we have the Manager’s Fund as a means of contributing directly to the player budget. Run by fans so ringfenced from the likes of Brabco. We have the lottery and we have season ticket sales. So there are three present and active options for fans who want to contribute, where they feel they can.

What other options do we have? It’s been mentioned earlier but getting fans in to watch a streamed away game in the stadium bar could be a shout. Table service only with options for lunch/food and some other things like a half time quiz, 50/50 etc may work. Maybe stick on an old game from Sons TV pre match. It won’t generate huge income but at this point anything is better than nothing. This of course depends on it being allowed but how can it be any different to watching a game in the boozer? Give your details at the entrance, take a seat and self manage numbers accessing communal areas like the toilets can’t be beyond possibility surely!

We also have arguably one of the largest bar/suite facilities in the area (per sq ft of floor) which may be handy for businesses or other events who require space for social distancing. Can the club push more on facility hire?

Finally, the club may ant to consider being open and honest about exactly how much is now needed on a monthly basis to cover outgoings. Having a push on specific targets if we know that ‘400 fans paying £20 a month’ is what is needed may be helpful.

This of course relies on clubs with relatively small supporter bases pulling on the same pool of people to contribute over multiple crowdfunding initiatives, but in my opinion giving folk as many options as possible is what will generate the best uptake overall.

[peternapper]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

At the start of the outbreak every Bundesliga side in Germany created a fund to be put aside to ensure no small club went out of business. In Scotland we had clubs take each other to court because they didn't get what they wanted. We're basically fucked if our only way out is all clubs coming together.

Yes a bit of forward planning would have been the sensible option before leaving everyone to do their own thing. Only came on the Sons part of the site as usually get some decent debate compared with some other clubs. The Peterhead chairman was on twitter saying the clubs needed to fight back against the SFA & Spfl to get something sorted, we apparently played a friendly where our own players, quite a few from the central belt were not allowed to use the showers at the ground. I am not sure what the testing of players situation is as that would be another big expense if applied to lower league games. Clubs seem to be a bit like a rabbit in the headlights, they know its going to hurt but can only hope its not fatal.

[Sergeant Wilson]

4 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Would be Newlandsfield for me. 

Glory hunter!

[Nowhereman]

Streaming is probably the primary hope for generating revenue but it can’t be the only one. Whether we like it or not there is going to come a point where fans, sponsors or any other willing party will have to contribute to some form of support fund with not much back in terms of value. Some will be in a position to help, others won’t for a variety of personally valid reasons. The question then is do we have a wider network of supporters and benefactors to survive. The optimist in me says yes, but I do have doubts.

What other options are available? Well we have the Manager’s Fund as a means of contributing directly to the player budget. Run by fans so ringfenced from the likes of Brabco. We have the lottery and we have season ticket sales. So there are three present and active options for fans who want to contribute, where they feel they can.

What other options do we have? It’s been mentioned earlier but getting fans in to watch a streamed away game in the stadium bar could be a shout. Table service only with options for lunch/food and some other things like a half time quiz, 50/50 etc may work. Maybe stick on an old game from Sons TV pre match. It won’t generate huge income but at this point anything is better than nothing. This of course depends on it being allowed but how can it be any different to watching a game in the boozer? Give your details at the entrance, take a seat and self manage numbers accessing communal areas like the toilets can’t be beyond possibility surely!

We also have arguably one of the largest bar/suite facilities in the area (per sq ft of floor) which may be handy for businesses or other events who require space for social distancing. Can the club push more on facility hire?

Finally, the club may ant to consider being open and honest about exactly how much is now needed on a monthly basis to cover outgoings. Having a push on specific targets if we know that ‘400 fans paying £20 a month’ is what is needed may be helpful.

This of course relies on clubs with relatively small supporter bases pulling on the same pool of people to contribute over multiple crowdfunding initiatives, but in my opinion giving folk as many options as possible is what will generate the best uptake overall.

I doubt we would be able to stream an away game in the bar. Every other club will be trying to sell as many pay per views as possible so they are hardly going to agree to sell one to DFC so that we can get a whole load of fans in to watch it

[aftershocker]

I doubt we would be able to stream an away game in the bar. Every other club will be trying to sell as many pay per views as possible so they are hardly going to agree to sell one to DFC so that we can get a whole load of fans in to watch it

Presumably though...if our club sold tickets...say 80...and agreed to pay the home team the streaming costs for 80... plus a small mark up...it might work?

[BallochSonsFan]

You'd almost certainly be looking at a commercial streaming rate.

£10 to watch the game at home? Commercial rate may be £200 for 40 - 50 fans to watch at a slimmed down version of hospitality with a light lunch and bar access. Clearly if we were getting 50 fans in and charging for a slimmed down hospitality then there's money to be made. Just not a whole lot of money by the time the caterer covers their costs and we get the function suite sanitised.

[BallochSonsFan]

I should add that I've got all the sympathy in the world for the board. The advice is changing week to week and it's very difficult for the club to plan for all eventualities. Limited numbers? Fine - you can plan for X number of fans initially and for that figure to increase as public health advice and restrictions change. No fans? Fair enough - you can plan for streaming and other ways of generating revenue. Going from one position to another with little notice so close to football returning? Absolute nightmare. The board are doing their absolute best in difficult, ever changing circumstances.

All of that said, right now we need as much clarity as possible. Can't get fans into the ground? We move to plan B. Tell us what plan B is and how we can help the club. I'll also add that the Sons Trust has been quiet throughout all of this. I'd have liked the trust to be a wee bit more visible throughout lockdown and with the various challenges facing the club. The trust have commented on colt team plans, on the club board representative and wished the manager good health following his heart attack but there has been a lack of comment on the challenges that the club faces or the support's views on the 20/21 season.

[Jordo1872]

I doubt we would be able to stream an away game in the bar. Every other club will be trying to sell as many pay per views as possible so they are hardly going to agree to sell one to DFC so that we can get a whole load of fans in to watch it

Oh well that’s that then. No point discussing it further.

Or maybe a bit of negotiation may see it work.

[sons superhero]

9 minutes ago, Jordo1872 said:

 

Oh well that’s that then. No point discussing it further.

Or maybe a bit of negotiation may see it work.

 

I've had local OF fans say they would watch a sons stream if it was about a tenner. 

[Jordo1872]

I've had local OF fans say they would watch a sons stream if it was about a tenner. 

I’ve got a good mate, who is a Celtic fan but probably attends a few Sons games a season with me, asked about buying a season ticket this year to help the club out. Despite the general feeling of apathy from the town towards the club I do think some will want to contribute in some way.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

I think a large part of the problem is that for months now everyone has been aware of the situation but events are now accelerating dramatically and there seems to be very little advice or support from the game's administrators for the smaller clubs especially . Perhaps now that we appear to be staring into the abyss there will be a galvanising process in terms of interest and season ticket uptake, but for that to happen the Board of DFC needs to really get onto the front foot and canvass the whole community, and especially the business sector; we simply cannot expect the same band of supporters to dig deep on a continued basis.

[Boghead ranter]

2 hours ago, sons superhero said:

I've had local OF fans say they would watch a sons stream if it was about a tenner. 

 

4 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Glory hunters!

 

[The Moonster]

Question for anyone with knowledge of these AI cameras - is there any scope to actually just have a guy controlling it? Getting a bit worried about the quality of stream I'm seeing at other clubs, the Stenny match in particular is unwatchable. The camera just pans out and its impossible to see who's on the ball, pretty poor quality picture too if I'm honest. Feels a bit like we've been sold a prototype that isn't quite ready for mass use.

The club has my money and I won't be asking for it back regardless but for it to be a success I think you'll need a better service than I'm seeing. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Question for anyone with knowledge of these AI cameras - is there any scope to actually just have a guy controlling it? Getting a bit worried about the quality of stream I'm seeing at other clubs, the Stenny match in particular is unwatchable. The camera just pans out and its impossible to see who's on the ball, pretty poor quality picture too if I'm honest. Feels a bit like we've been sold a prototype that isn't quite ready for mass use.
The club has my money and I won't be asking for it back regardless but for it to be a success I think you'll need a better service than I'm seeing. 

You are the second person this weekend who I'm aware has now raised this issue Moonster, and if it is as poor as you suggest then it is a huge concern as we can forget any mass uptake. I'm still trying to understand how I could sit all afternoon drinking indoors in the Stags Head but I cannot sit masked and distances in the open air at The Rock. I think the SPFL need to ask the Scottish Government to explain this.

[BallochSonsFan]

The quality has to be right or fans won't watch.

Not convinced that an AI camera will properly keep up with a game or that the picture quality will be good enough. The goal clip from our friendly against BSC didnt look particularly good. Maybe thats down to system settings needing tweaked. Its why I'd like to see us do a proper trial over the course of a couple of games. User testing has to be a priority and it has to be done urgently. If we expect things to just work for the start of the season then we're going to need an incredible amount of luck. Streaming in UK hockey works well now, but that hasnt always been the case and in the early days of webcasts there were a lot of very unhappy fans paying for something that didnt really deliver.

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

You are the second person this weekend who I'm aware has now raised this issue Moonster, and if it is as poor as you suggest then it is a huge concern as we can forget any mass uptake. I'm still trying to understand how I could sit all afternoon drinking indoors in the Stags Head but I cannot sit masked and distances in the open air at The Rock. I think the SPFL need to ask the Scottish Government to explain this.

The SG hate football. It's that simple, we cannot be trusted. Despite being a fan of Sturgeon, her party is full to the brim of football hating weirdos. Mind we're already on a yellow card because Premiership clubs can't even control their players, we've no hope of getting sad wee diddy fans back at grounds. 

[peternapper]

2 hours ago, The Moonster said:

Question for anyone with knowledge of these AI cameras - is there any scope to actually just have a guy controlling it? Getting a bit worried about the quality of stream I'm seeing at other clubs, the Stenny match in particular is unwatchable. The camera just pans out and its impossible to see who's on the ball, pretty poor quality picture too if I'm honest. Feels a bit like we've been sold a prototype that isn't quite ready for mass use.

The club has my money and I won't be asking for it back regardless but for it to be a success I think you'll need a better service than I'm seeing. 

We streamed a friendly a couple weeks ago & suffered many of the same problems, ie the camera stuck at one end of pitch when play had moved on tp the other end. Did not think too much of it at the time i presumed the club had a operator using a joystick to control the picture but it appears its remote. Would expect that folk would tire of that standard of coverage.