Sons' sorrow

[lorenzo71]

It might be that amateur status is re-introduced for a season or so.Players can keep playing until all this is over.A lot of guys at this level are motivated by the love of the game as much as the scheckles.Might be way off though.

Feel sorry for QP 140 odd years amateur and when they turn senior COVID 19 STRIKES.Talk about bad luck.

[PortyMo]

A possible way to up the earnings from a live transmission would be to sell the match to away fans on a one off basis.
I can't see it happening though. In our case, the Mo wouldn't have the fan base to make it viable.

[Silverton End]

12 minutes ago, Boghead ranter said:

Get celebrity fan Hazel Irvine in. Use her experience and contacts. 

Get Murdo McLeod in for pre & post match analysis too

[microdave]

23 minutes ago, Sons FC said:

I would be surprised if you would need anywhere like 25 people and not all will need a salary.

11 starters and 7 subs plus manager, assistant, coach, physio, kit co-ordinator and groundsman is 24. And there are probably people behind the scenes that I'm not aware of.

[Boghead ranter]

16 minutes ago, Silverton End said:

Get Murdo McLeod in for pre & post match analysis too

Christ, can imagine? 

"So Murdo, who's been your man of the match so far?"

"Every player has been just as good as each other"

"Murdo, should the ref have given a free kick there?"

"Every tackle is just as good as other tackles"

"Murdo, who's the best keeper?"

*Even I'm not getting involved in that one"

Edited May 4, 2020 by Boghead ranter

[Silverton End]

10 minutes ago, microdave said:

11 starters and 7 subs plus manager, assistant, coach, physio, kit co-ordinator and groundsman is 24. And there are probably people behind the scenes that I'm not aware of.

Health & Safety might also dictate that stewards/security officer are needed too.

As much as I'd love any possible closed door Sons games being streamed, I don't think it could be financially viable for us, to even pay the wages of our players involved.

No crowds = no income

 

 

[Sons FC]

33 minutes ago, microdave said:

11 starters and 7 subs plus manager, assistant, coach, physio, kit co-ordinator and groundsman is 24. And there are probably people behind the scenes that I'm not aware of.

I misunderstood this. I thought Nowhereman was referring to the technical team to run the broadcast.

As you were.

[BallochSonsFan]

1 hour ago, Nowhereman said:

I have no idea how much the equipment etc would cost but let’s just look at one cost, wages. To put a game on we would need something in the region of 25 people at an absolute minimum. It would likely be more but let’s say twenty five. If they were being paid an average of £250 per week that is £6250 a week so about £25000 a month. We have two home games a month so we need £12500 a game from subscriptions. At the absolute max we might get 200. So they would need to pay £62.50 per game just to cover wages. And that is before we consider all the costs of broadcasting and of maintaining and opening the stadium. Streaming games live is not an option for Scottish football at our level or to be honest at any level

The only way its financially viable would be for the club to continue to sell season tickets and to get game by game subscribers to top that up.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

2 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

I have no idea how much the equipment etc would cost but let’s just look at one cost, wages. To put a game on we would need something in the region of 25 people at an absolute minimum. It would likely be more but let’s say twenty five. If they were being paid an average of £250 per week that is £6250 a week so about £25000 a month. We have two home games a month so we need £12500 a game from subscriptions. At the absolute max we might get 200. So they would need to pay £62.50 per game just to cover wages. And that is before we consider all the costs of broadcasting and of maintaining and opening the stadium. Streaming games live is not an option for Scottish football at our level or to be honest at any level

The only way we could ever run a live stream is with volunteers similar to how we operated the highlights package. I do think we would require a fair whack of volunteers to run with it but I’d be surprised if it was 25, I reckon you could operate it with about 5 or 6 bodies if we were happy to go ahead with no commentary. No doubt someone from Raith, Falkirk or East Fife could provide some clarity on how many folk they need to run such an operation. 
 

Another thing to consider is that Saturday 3pm kick offs aren’t allowed to be broadcast to UK residents. There are ways around it of course but that rule would need to be changed to broadcast any sort of live league fixtures in a behind closed doors environment.

FWIW I don’t think there’s any chance of Scottish lower league football going ahead without a crowd. The cons far outweigh any pros. 

[LiamA]

At East Fife we could work with a minimum of 3 people but it’s generally 4. It’s not hugely expensive but you need a pretty fast laptop, we just bought a new one at around £1100 & probably around £500 of other outgoings. We pay a subscription for the streaming platform & wifi dongle around £35 each per month. EFtv is run separately from the football club so any profits belong to EFtv although the money from our ‘as live’ games goes directly to the club.

If we end up live streaming closed doors games then I assume we would have to charge whatever the gate price is with all that going to the club. The downside is that there is nothing to stop a group of people paying one £15 fee & gathering somewhere to watch therefore costing the club revenue. Maybe talking out of turn here but I’m sure that we would be happy to stream away games on behalf of the home side with the revenue going to them but then a great deal of trust would be required!

Getting back to numbers we feel we could offer an even better product with more volunteers which has proved difficult to get but sure we will be inundated with offers if we end up playing behind closed doors!

Should add the the main camera belongs to EFFC & cost £1400 3 years ago but the quality of lower priced cameras has improved greatly since then. Just have to make sure they have all the necessary outlets.

[the snudge]

The SPFL should be paying for it and I'm sure could arrange a bulk buy of equipment. They could stream the games on their channels and claw back the cash from sponsorship/adverts on YouTube. The money could then be redistributed to the lower league clubs. Probably hunners of flaws I'm not aware of. 

[lorenzo71]

40 minutes ago, LiamA said:

At East Fife we could work with a minimum of 3 people but it’s generally 4. It’s not hugely expensive but you need a pretty fast laptop, we just bought a new one at around £1100 & probably around £500 of other outgoings. We pay a subscription for the streaming platform & wifi dongle around £35 each per month. EFtv is run separately from the football club so any profits belong to EFtv although the money from our ‘as live’ games goes directly to the club.

If we end up live streaming closed doors games then I assume we would have to charge whatever the gate price is with all that going to the club. The downside is that there is nothing to stop a group of people paying one £15 fee & gathering somewhere to watch therefore costing the club revenue. Maybe talking out of turn here but I’m sure that we would be happy to stream away games on behalf of the home side with the revenue going to them but then a great deal of trust would be required!

Getting back to numbers we feel we could offer an even better product with more volunteers which has proved difficult to get but sure we will be inundated with offers if we end up playing behind closed doors!

Should add the the main camera belongs to EFFC & cost £1400 3 years ago but the quality of lower priced cameras has improved greatly since then. Just have to make sure they have all the necessary outlets.

Going by these costs it surely has to be feasible.Perhaps it won't cover players wages but then what will without gate money.We may be looking at a scenario of players receiving amateur status for the season just so that they can play.Many won't be happy as it augments their livelihood but then again what other choice will many of them have?Serious situation that requires serious measures.

[GoTeamGaz]

Firstly, the infrastructure in the stadium would need a fairly large upgrade including a hardwire up to the back of the stand. 

there isn’t really a great deal of room up there either when you factor in the camera + tripod. For charging people a full admission you can’t really get away with missing any of the action. Two or three seats removed from the back two rows might be required.

you need someone specifically on putting up graphics, someone just watching the game to tell them what to put up (both out of earshot of the camera if you’re taking the sound source from there or you also need to have someone monitoring the sound of it’s being done externally. If you want the full price of a match ticket do you also need more than one camera? You need a camera person for each one and an editor/director too. 

My heart sinks when I see people say “just link up with a college”. We’re supposed to be a semi-professional outfit; not a bunch of amateurs. Asking a bunch of kids to do it with no one in charge and no prospect of it becoming any sort of long term thing because we’ll just wheel in the next lot of free kids is garbage. It’s not great experience because it gives you zero insight into working in any real life situation, it’s absolutely not great for your CV & will be treated with suspicion why you did it all for nothing when you could have gone out and made your own short film, something creative or done something where you could earn.

If it can’t generate enough money to have it done properly and fairly it’s just not viable. I was at a meeting in Hampden when the SFL suggested to the clubs that “asking your local high schools” was a great way of getting footage done cheap for highlights packages. It’s embarrassing.

on top of all that I heard that Raith TV very quickly appeared for free on these tv boxes so you could get access to all the streams freely, there are people out there who will know how to access them in ways we don’t so you need fairly robust (expensive?) security in place too.
 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

9 minutes ago, GoTeamGaz said:

 

My heart sinks when I see people say “just link up with a college”. We’re supposed to be a semi-professional outfit; not a bunch of amateurs. Asking a bunch of kids to do it with no one in charge and no prospect of it becoming any sort of long term thing because we’ll just wheel in the next lot of free kids is garbage. It’s not great experience because it gives you zero insight into working in any real life situation, it’s absolutely not great for your CV & will be treated with suspicion why you did it all for nothing when you could have gone out and made your own short film, something creative or done something where you could earn.

 

That seems a bit of an odd way to look at it tbh. Over the last few seasons I haven’t been able to attend many away games and have resorted to streaming when it allows, including our recent cup tie with Aberdeen. I can categorically say that St Mirren’s live stream is the best of the bunch, and I include Rangers TV in that FWIW. Their live stream is operated by students. 
 

Why isn’t it great experience? We have a bunch of media students who’d be fully involved in a live match day (having done a media course that is far, far better experience than I ever got). You have lecturers who would be experienced in the media world who would be providing guidance. 
 

For a semi professional outfit like DFC I’d welcome any sort of live stream tbh. I certainly wouldn’t be expecting Speilberg esque production value and if it can help some out some students along the way then even better. I’m not really sure what you expect a part-time football club to have? A fully experienced media team doing the live stream with top of the range equipment? 

[GoTeamGaz]

Good experience would be being immersed in a professional team for a few weeks to learn the profession. This isn’t that, this is taking advantage of someone’s lack of experience to get them to do something for you - that you’re then going to ask £15 a head for. I can promise you that filming lower league Scottish football off your own back does not do anything good for your career prospects it opens you to questions of - if you’ll do it for free why should we pay you & if you were any good they would have paid to keep you.

Just like we do with players, I’m not suggesting a full media truck of crew is required, but just like we do with players I wouldn’t want to pay £15 a match to see people that had been rounded up at the local park to play free to get experience of playing in a real team.

we’re not a charity, if a media product is required that can generate a proper income then we should be spending the proper level of money out to get the best job done we can at the price we want to sell it at.

[GoTeamGaz]

Also, if the white kit vote was up to me I’d have gone with ...

... but that’s probably not helpful just now

[Nowhereman]

I would be surprised if you would need anywhere like 25 people and not all will need a salary.

Eighteen players, manager, kit person, physio, someone to open the stadium, two or three to work the cameras and sound and there is your twenty five without even thinking about it

 

Edit. Beaten to it by others I see

[microdave]

Options 1 and 2 are plain boring to me. 4 is a poor Ayr United strip so it looks like 3 for me. If the grey was gold that would be better. Best of a bad bunch imo.

[Jan Vojáček]

15 minutes ago, microdave said:

Options 1 and 2 are plain boring to me. 4 is a poor Ayr United strip so it looks like 3 for me. If the grey was gold that would be better. Best of a bad bunch imo.

Took me 10 minutes to spot the difference between 1 and 2, I won't lie.

I went for four. I've absolutley no idea why. I think it might be the novelty factor.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Firstly, the infrastructure in the stadium would need a fairly large upgrade including a hardwire up to the back of the stand. 
there isn’t really a great deal of room up there either when you factor in the camera + tripod. For charging people a full admission you can’t really get away with missing any of the action. Two or three seats removed from the back two rows might be required.
you need someone specifically on putting up graphics, someone just watching the game to tell them what to put up (both out of earshot of the camera if you’re taking the sound source from there or you also need to have someone monitoring the sound of it’s being done externally. If you want the full price of a match ticket do you also need more than one camera? You need a camera person for each one and an editor/director too. 
My heart sinks when I see people say “just link up with a college”. We’re supposed to be a semi-professional outfit; not a bunch of amateurs. Asking a bunch of kids to do it with no one in charge and no prospect of it becoming any sort of long term thing because we’ll just wheel in the next lot of free kids is garbage. It’s not great experience because it gives you zero insight into working in any real life situation, it’s absolutely not great for your CV & will be treated with suspicion why you did it all for nothing when you could have gone out and made your own short film, something creative or done something where you could earn.
If it can’t generate enough money to have it done properly and fairly it’s just not viable. I was at a meeting in Hampden when the SFL suggested to the clubs that “asking your local high schools” was a great way of getting footage done cheap for highlights packages. It’s embarrassing.
on top of all that I heard that Raith TV very quickly appeared for free on these tv boxes so you could get access to all the streams freely, there are people out there who will know how to access them in ways we don’t so you need fairly robust (expensive?) security in place too.
 

Good post, and everyone seems to have also overlooked a requirement for the strips to be luminous for those midweek wet February evening games under the 'lights'.[emoji278]