Sons' sorrow

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

We've assembled a squad with the future of the club in mind by the looks of it.
Which we all seem to agree is the most important thing.
Next question.
Do we think there was better players out there with what we could afford?
Or does it ease our minds a little knowing that although we don't have a great squad this season at least we have seasons ahead of us with q club to support?

There was most definitely better out there.

Duffy has mad a total arse of this summer.

[albundy]

Just looking back at the summary from the Q&A with the club.
What's everyone's thought on this :
"Duffy believes that we have the 2nd lowest budget in League One. The club doesnt agree but acknowledges that the budget has been set at an affordable level because they won't risk the club's financial stability"
Are we wanting to be more ambitious or are we glad that budgets are being strict so we have a club in years to come?

Financial security with calculated risk.

[Jordo1872]

Just looking back at the summary from the Q&A with the club.
What's everyone's thought on this :
"Duffy believes that we have the 2nd lowest budget in League One. The club doesnt agree but acknowledges that the budget has been set at an affordable level because they won't risk the club's financial stability"
Are we wanting to be more ambitious or are we glad that budgets are being strict so we have a club in years to come?

The longer term stability of the club should always come before short term (over) ambition. I say over because it doesn’t mean the club can’t have ambitious plans, but that requires a longer term vision and sustainable business model.

One thing that’s obvious is that we don’t make enough of the current stadium. Out with match days it must be 10-20% utilised, at a guess. Most clubs from the Championship upwards will have their facilities used routinely throughout the week. That generates a non-match day income that drives up their budget relative to ours.

We have two fully licensed bars, one ideal for small to medium functions, the other one of the biggest capacity venues in the area. They should be used to their full potential.

Simon spoke about Duffy not being prepared to make promises based on forecasted budgets and that’s absolutely right imo. If the club can maximise non-match day revenue to a point where you have a fully committed annual calendar that would help.

Of course so would a managers fund and the various Trust fundraisers.

As much as we can rely on the odd sponsor donation that’s not something you can come to expect.

[DumbartonTheSons]

I think that's a hard question to answer. There was a lot of players available who we all agreed we would have liked to see at the rock and it never happened. Was it the budget or something else. We can speculate about what players are on but realistically none of us know for sure. Do we seriously think teams such as cowdenbeath, East Kilbride etc are paying their players more than us? If so where are they getting the money?

It’s pretty much a certainty that they’ll be paying more than us, and as far I know, both the clubs you mentioned have outside investment to help with that.

[optimistic]

Duffy did say he couldn’t believe how much over paid our previous squads were.

I presume the players we all would’ve liked to sign were expecting a fair wedge, and Duffy/club had already set maximum wage barriers

Our club is open 3-5 days a week, would there be a possibility of opening the bar 7 days a week as a wee social club/pub, for extra revenue?

I don’t mind the lesser paid players at the club, but it’s definitely up to Duffy to prove how good a manager he is, to coach, and mould these guys into a professional and good enough squad to compete.

Club before squad in my opinion

[thomas 62]

2 hours ago, lorenzo71 said:

But you seem to have recruited reasonably well this season.What do your fans think of the manager?I liked him when he was at the Rock.

Faz top guy,  has patience in close season to get best value for money available.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

We've assembled a squad with the future of the club in mind by the looks of it.
Which we all seem to agree is the most important thing.
Next question.
Do we think there was better players out there with what we could afford?
Or does it ease our minds a little knowing that although we don't have a great squad this season at least we have seasons ahead of us with q club to support?

Sorry, my mind is not at ease at all. And that's because I believe that the decline of the football club is EXACTLY what the majority shareholder seeks, as it hastens their aim of monetising the real estate which the club currently occupies.

We learned that they are having a second tilt at a project which no-one wants. My take on this is that it is a complete red herring, but rather than try and force the issue in full public glare they probably prefer an implosion from within. 'It is with deep regret, etc.,'

Maybe I'm wildly off the mark here, and I sincerely hope I am, but comparisons between DFC and other clubs like Forfar, Stranraer, etc., are also unfair as none of them are labouring under the grotesque situation the Deal From Hell has landed Dumbarton in.

[Jordo1872]

Sorry, my mind is not at ease at all. And that's because I believe that the decline of the football club is EXACTLY what the majority shareholder seeks, as it hastens their aim of monetising the real estate which the club currently occupies.

We learned that they are having a second tilt at a project which no-one wants. My take on this is that it is a complete red herring, but rather than try and force the issue in full public glare they probably prefer an implosion from within. 'It is with deep regret, etc.,'

Maybe I'm wildly off the mark here, and I sincerely hope I am, but comparisons between DFC and other clubs like Forfar, Stranraer, etc., are also unfair as none of them are labouring under the grotesque situation the Deal From Hell has landed Dumbarton in.

Or indeed the legacy of mismanagement from previous boards that left the club with an asset in need of urgent repairs yet no ring fenced maintenance funds to draw from. Basic asset management failures that left the current board having to find that money from elsewhere; compounded by the drop in ST sales and away support meaning that particular pot was already tight.

[C'mon_the_Sons]

I've suggested this before but I'll repeat it given latest discussions. 

The club isn't marketed enough, we're tucked away at the bottom or Castle Road. Out of sight out of mind. 

Is there no way we could get a 'next home fixture' sign in a prominent location to try and get passive potential fans down to the Rock?

 

[GoTeamGaz]

The council certainly has that frame it puts banners on after the Milton BP on the A82 ... 

the banner at a big enough size to read, for outdoors, around £50 x 18 games - £900 even if the council charge nothing for allowing it to be placed alongside theres.

[BallochSonsFan]

Is lack of awareness really a factor in why locals don't attend games?

We get coverage in both the Lennox and the Reporter. Not sure what the Advertiser is like. Would a banner advert in a prominent position be enough to spark interest amongst locals who see the club with what is usually apathy at best, if not even a little hostility?

Its more fundamental for me. We need the population of West Dunbartonshire and Helensburgh to start valuing it's local football club. People know we're here. What we need is for people to start to care.

[BallochSonsFan]

On 26/07/2019 at 16:23, McGarci said:

according about that. now that the team isnt in championship, what do you prefer? a stronger first team? or worse first team and a youth structure (obviusly non-profesional, players & trainers from the town and nearly)

It is unlikely every year a youth pass the first team... but for instance crawford has come back, and others youth players who played for sons are in other youth teams (clyde, hamilton, vale of leven,  stirling etc etc)

Taken a bit of time to get round to replying.

As a football fan there's an emotional factor at play when it comes to youth development. It's something that I believe that all clubs should do because it's an investment in the future of the game. We don't have the same number of kids playing football these days and with the focus on pro youth, we have even fewer who remain involved throughout all age groups. We're raising a generation of kids who simply don't see football as something that they can be involved in through playing for local youth teams and by attending games on a saturday. I'm 40 in September - I can't remember more than a handful of people in my time at school who were regulars at football matches or who regularly played for youth teams. We've now progressed to the kids of people my age and things have gotten worse rather than better.

But looking objectively? Youth development has done nothing for Dumbarton for a long time now. I don't believe that it would be an appropriate use of very tight resources to spend money on youth development when we have other areas to address. We simply can't afford to run the club, build a competitive squad and develop youngsters. The best we can hope for is to have some kind of link with local youth sides. The problem comes when kids reach their mid teens - we need somewhere for them to develop from the ages of 16 to 18 where they'll be good enough to be part of our squad. Difficult to do outside of pro-youth. You mention Crawford coming back and it's a good example. He wasn't ready to step up to the first team when we had him first time round but it took a spell in junior football away from the club to continue his development before he was at a level where we would consider signing him for the first team squad.

You're the Canadian poster aren't you? There's probably not really an equivalent in North American sports because of the influence of NCAA and, in particular with my other sport, CHL hockey. Kids have a clear progression path from peewees through to the various youth levels. They'll join a major junior team if they're good enough or potentially a junior A side. if they're not quite top level. There's always USports to continue their development and education if they're not ready at 18 or 19 to play pro hockey. We don't have that in Scottish football. The set up at junior hockey teams would put Scottish professional football to shame with the way they develop kids. OHL teams are more professional than many top flight SPFL sides. If you're not in a pro youth team at one of the top clubs in Scotland where finance actually is in place then you're really struggling to get the coaching and competition you need to develop to a level where professional football is a realistic option.

[RGD89]

Its peoples mindset about the club. The amount of people who ask me

“why do you have a dumbarton season ticket ? What do you go and watch that shite for? “

Its a mentality that surrounds the club from the local area. I think many people just associate us with being absolute whipping boys.

Its a shame really but i think its a very difficult cycle for the club to break that perspective that the local area has of the team.

[Jumbo Muir]

Its peoples mindset about the club. The amount of people who ask me  

“why do you have a dumbarton season ticket ? What do you go and watch that shite for? “

 

Its a mentality that surrounds the club from the local area. I think many people just associate us with being absolute whipping boys.

 

Its a shame really but i think its a very difficult cycle for the club to break that perspective that the local area has of the team.

 

Like you, I’ve been watching that shite for many, many years and I’m proud of it.

They’re my team and I won’t support anyone else.

That there is the difficulty in getting people who enjoy football to suddenly come and watch us.

I don’t believe that there are many Sons fans who haven’t been born into supporting us and being taken by a parent or a sibling to games.

I’ve been watching that shite for 50 years now. [emoji1303]

 

[Lichtie78]

Its peoples mindset about the club. The amount of people who ask me

“why do you have a dumbarton season ticket ? What do you go and watch that shite for? “

This is all too familiar. Even with our recent successes I’ve got pals who’d rather watch the scores on Gillette soccer Saturday, and it annoys me no end. Even worse when you get beat and get all the patronising shite later when you meet them in the pub.

[super-son]

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Is lack of awareness really a factor in why locals don't attend games?

We get coverage in both the Lennox and the Reporter. Not sure what the Advertiser is like. Would a banner advert in a prominent position be enough to spark interest amongst locals who see the club with what is usually apathy at best, if not even a little hostility?

Its more fundamental for me. We need the population of West Dunbartonshire and Helensburgh to start valuing it's local football club. People know we're here. What we need is for people to start to care.

Im not sure coverage in newspapers is relevant to attracting new fans tbh. I don't know anybody under 40-50 that buys or reads newspapers. It's not going to get young new fans to start attending.

[C'mon_the_Sons]

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Is lack of awareness really a factor in why locals don't attend games?

We get coverage in both the Lennox and the Reporter. Not sure what the Advertiser is like. Would a banner advert in a prominent position be enough to spark interest amongst locals who see the club with what is usually apathy at best, if not even a little hostility?

Its more fundamental for me. We need the population of West Dunbartonshire and Helensburgh to start valuing it's local football club. People know we're here. What we need is for people to start to care.

My idea of having a board was only one example of marketing the club. Marketing raises awareness but, if you do it right, also creates the value that you mention.

The newspaper coverage is beneficial for reporting the facts / speculation about the club but doesn't really promote DFC the brand. Also it only covers those who buy the papers and not those who don't which is a growing population if you look at circulation figures.

Bottom line is we do not have a marketing strategy and that is to the clubs detriment in my opinion.

[C'mon_the_Sons]

Just now, super-son said:

Im not sure coverage in newspapers is relevant to attracting new fans tbh. I don't know anybody under 40-50 that buys or reads newspapers. It's not going to get young new fans to start attending.

My response crossed but totally agree.

[C'mon_the_Sons]

45 minutes ago, Jumbo Muir said:

I don’t believe that there are many Sons fans who haven’t been born into supporting us and being taken by a parent or a sibling to games.

I’ve been watching that shite for 50 years now.

 

I'm one of the exceptions and partly illustrates how interest can be generated in surprising ways.

I'll share  how my now c.20 year association with the Sons began.

My older sister was dating a Ross County fan and he took her to Sons v Ross County at Boghead (from memory Ross County won). I found out she'd been and I, being jealous of her going, nagged my dad (who wasn't a Sons fan either) to take me. The rest as they say is history!

My point I guess is that we cannot discount the fact that there are potential fans out there we just need to hook them somehow

Edited July 28, 2019 by C'mon_the_Sons

[Jordo1872]

Like you, I’ve been watching that shite for many, many years and I’m proud of it. They’re my team and I won’t support anyone else.
That there is the difficulty in getting people who enjoy football to suddenly come and watch us.
I don’t believe that there are many Sons fans who haven’t been born into supporting us and being taken by a parent or a sibling to games.
I’ve been watching that shite for 50 years now. [emoji1303]
 

The perceived shitey-ness of a football team is all relative. A fact I like to remind Old Firm fans.