Sons' sorrow

[Thommo90]

11 minutes ago, Jordo1872 said:

 

We had a lot of fans saying they wouldn’t renew with Stevie Aitken at the helm. Yet when he left, and the fans choice Jim Duffy came on there was no notable spike in ST sales. So where did those fans go?

We’ve also had fans say I. Here that a £200+ outlay in the summer is too much and yet when the club authorise a payment plan that allows fans to pay up at a very reasonable £25 a month there’s still no significant uptake.

The club are doing their best with the Brabco baggage strapped to their back in a small pool of volunteers; but fans need to react and support the club when things are down right.

I thought it was a useful engagement event and is something we should be doing 2 or maybe 3 times a year, hosted by the Trust but with representation from the board and/or manager when feasible.

One thing I found interesting was the view that Brabco benefit from the negativity surrounding the club on social media platforms, on here etc. Make no mistake that hearing fans deserting the club when we’re already tight financially will be music to their ears. Maybe food for thought for some.

If we’re going to rid ourselves of the absolute clustershambles of failed businessmen that call themselves Brabco we need the fans united, and willing to engage, support and be proactive in any subsequent fight. And it may well head that way.

Which leads to my final point. Given the amount of negativity on here, and on social media over the summer, much of it justified, a lot of it not; it was disappointing to see only 40-50 fans in attendance. When we hear so many complaints about the club not being open or ho eat about what’s going on, that’s a disappointing turnout when the club do engage.

 

Hmm, 40-50 fans being available to go along isn't too bad tbh.  At least 20% of ST holders, who will speak to folk who didn't go along...... Not everyone can make midweek evenings.

I don't follow all the Brabco crap tbh, too much involved, so I try stick to what is happening on the park.  I don't want to speak to board members, I want to speak to Duffy and ask him how he feels our recruitment went this summer.

[McGarci]

7 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:

 

- The owners are looking at Youngs Farm again. Unsure how the development would be structured or financed but the community sports hub would be a much bigger feature. The owners are pursuing this with the council themselves.

 

according about that. now that the team isnt in championship, what do you prefer? a stronger first team? or worse first team and a youth structure (obviusly non-profesional, players & trainers from the town and nearly)

It is unlikely every year a youth pass the first team... but for instance crawford has come back, and others youth players who played for sons are in other youth teams (clyde, hamilton, vale of leven,  stirling etc etc)

Edited July 26, 2019 by McGarci

[Boghead ranter]

2 hours ago, microdave said:

 

Colin Hosie mentioned that he'd like to put some terracing behind each goal (like Galabank) to increase the capacity to 3500 but we don't have the funds to do that. Something like that could alleviate any problems like the other night and increase revenue if we get a big cup tie in the future.

 

 

So we need 

a) someone who knows about concrete, and

b) someone with an affinity to the local area 

 

In ye come @Melanius Mullarkey and Mrs Mullarkey.

[Silverton End]

2 hours ago, microdave said:

It was also said that when Brabco put the club up for sale last year, they had a couple of bids at around £1.2m which were immediately dismissed. But Simon thinks they could be willing to let the club go for £1.5m although one of their shareholders wants to hold out for £3-3.5m. 

Colin Hosie mentioned that he'd like to put some terracing behind each goal (like Galabank) to increase the capacity to 3500 but we don't have the funds to do that. Something like that could alleviate any problems like the other night and increase revenue if we get a big cup tie in the future.

 

 

I'd give my right baw to stand on a wee terraced section behind the goals tbh.

 

[C'mon_the_Sons]

17 minutes ago, Silverton End said:

I'd give my right baw to stand on a wee terraced section behind the goals tbh.

 

Wonder how much one of those would cost?

[C'mon_the_Sons]

19 minutes ago, Boghead ranter said:

So we need 

a) someone who knows about concrete, and

b) someone with an affinity to the local area 

 

In ye come @Melanius Mullarkey and Mrs Mullarkey.

Maybe C&G could acquire some railway sleepers

[Jordo1872]

Wonder how much one of those would cost? [emoji848]

£100-150k for uncovered terracing.

£200-300k for covered terracing

£400k for terracing with usable space beneath.

Would be my guess. We’ll need to sell a few more ‘engraved at the rock’ bricks for that though.

[microdave]

Another thing I've remembered was the manager's fund. The board are trying to get Brabco to contribute to the maintenance that's needed because it accumulated under their orders while the planning for the new stadium was ongoing. If we had a manager's fund going straight into the club bank account then Brabco might very well say that they don't need to contribute because the fans are. So the fund has to go through the Trust but it's a bit complicated due to something I don't understand. Tbh I think my eyes glazed over a bit when they were talking about cooperative and tax and other financial stuff I don't have a scooby about. But if there was a fund, I'd happily pay £20 a month towards it.

[Sons Fan]

1 minute ago, microdave said:

Another thing I've remembered was the manager's fund. The board are trying to get Brabco to contribute to the maintenance that's needed because it accumulated under their orders while the planning for the new stadium was ongoing. If we had a manager's fund going straight into the club bank account then Brabco might very well say that they don't need to contribute because the fans are. So the fund has to go through the Trust but it's a bit complicated due to something I don't understand. Tbh I think my eyes glazed over a bit when they were talking about cooperative and tax and other financial stuff I don't have a scooby about. But if there was a fund, I'd happily pay £20 a month towards it.

Yeh the manager fund needs to go through the trust or third party to stop brabco from getting there hands on it.

it seems that the people helping the club were stretched so thin that something had to give and go on the back burner and that was one of them. It sound crazy as you would think it would have helped with the squad but they seemed to be dealing with more pressing issues such as getting the trust structure fixed.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

47 minutes ago, Boghead ranter said:

So we need 

a) someone who knows about concrete, and

b) someone with an affinity to the local area 

 

In ye come @Melanius Mullarkey and Mrs Mullarkey.

 

23 minutes ago, Jordo1872 said:

 

£100-150k for uncovered terracing.

£200-300k for covered terracing

£400k for terracing with usable space beneath.

Would be my guess. We’ll need to sell a few more ‘engraved at the rock’ bricks for that though.

 

The wife said she’ll do it for £80k plus fags.

[DumbartonTheSons]

Summary:
Club issues:
- The club are struggling around the 200 season ticket holder mark. This is around half of our season ticket numbers as little as 2 years ago when we were in the Championship. It's a vicious circle: Fans complain about the quality of squad so stay away which means the club don't have the money to use to build a squad.
- Duffy believes that we have the 2nd lowest budget in League One. The club doesnt agree but acknowledges that the budget has been set at an affordable level because they won't risk the club's financial stability.
- Duffy is looking at potentially bringing in another 2 loan signings. These may be late additions as clubs above us finalise their squads and look to send younger players or squad players on loan.
- The club has taken a firm stance with the local council regarding the walkway. Essentially told that it's a council project and up to the council to fund. It's nothing to do with us.
- The owners are looking at Youngs Farm again. Unsure how the development would be structured or financed but the community sports hub would be a much bigger feature. The owners are pursuing this with the council themselves.
- There were plans for the club to have 2 stands when moving to the current ground. A change at Sport Scotland meant that £2million of funding was no longer available. The club couldn't fill that funding gap. A second stand would have been particularly helpful in the Championship and opens up options for supporters. Safe standing wasn't available when the ground was built. The local council/police are particularly strict with us and we don't have the flexibility to accommodate fans within the ground in the way that some other clubs do.
- The club is running with a board of 4 directors. People give their time and efforts with little or no expenses paid. It does at times mean that running the club can be time consuming. The club would benefit from any help that fans could offer in any number of areas. It's easy to criticise the club but the challenge is in stepping up and helping to change things.
- Although money is very tight at the club, we are not currently reliant on any form of emergency funding to keep us operating.
- That said, the club has currently sold 5 match sponsorships for the new season. Annan had sold over a dozen as of our cup game and one of the Angus teams has sold sponsorship for every home game in the 19/20 season. There's a major challenge in getting local businesses to engage with the club and to sponsor games. That extends to other areas of finance such as funding Sons TV etc.
 
Trust issues:
- Administering the trust has been problematic in the past 2 years, leading to a lapse in legal status. It was an oversight that is being fixed. It shouldn't cause any problems in the future but has contributed to the trust not holding AGMs when it should have. This was regrettable but was in part caused by the efforts of trust board members and other volunteers being directed elsewhere.
- The trust will be seeking new board members and there are still opportunities for people to get involved without becoming board members.
- The trust remains in contact with the club board and with the owners in order to represent fan interests.
- The trust remains committed to it's core goals of supporter representation and to a greater degree of fan involvement/ownership at the club.
 
General discussion:
There was general discussion surrounding

• funding
• the relationship with the local authority
• Rory Loy's injury (he's still injured, the first operation hasn't helped and there are no guarantees that a 2nd op would solve his issues)
• C&G's involvement at the club (players contracts and C&G contracts are entirely separate - the only way that C&G can influence player signing is if a full time player is stepping down to part time and is looking for work outside the game or if a part time player from another club is looking to change jobs - C&G may help make Dumbarton a more attractive option)
• Encouraging young fans
• Stewarding standards and fan experience on match day

Thanks from me and I’m sure others too for such a detailed report from meeting, very good of you to do that.

[GoTeamGaz]

1 hour ago, Sons Fan said:

It sound crazy as you would think it would have helped with the squad but they seemed to be dealing with more pressing issues such as getting the trust structure fixed.

Not an expert and wasn’t there but I believe you actually can’t donate money and specify what it can be used for so if an electricity bill or whatever came in then there’s only one pot of money.

[albundy]

We had a lot of fans saying they wouldn’t renew with Stevie Aitken at the helm. Yet when he left, and the fans choice Jim Duffy came on there was no notable spike in ST sales. So where did those fans go?

We’ve also had fans say I. Here that a £200+ outlay in the summer is too much and yet when the club authorise a payment plan that allows fans to pay up at a very reasonable £25 a month there’s still no significant uptake.

The club are doing their best with the Brabco baggage strapped to their back in a small pool of volunteers; but fans need to react and support the club when things are down right.

I thought it was a useful engagement event and is something we should be doing 2 or maybe 3 times a year, hosted by the Trust but with representation from the board and/or manager when feasible.

One thing I found interesting was the view that Brabco benefit from the negativity surrounding the club on social media platforms, on here etc. Make no mistake that hearing fans deserting the club when we’re already tight financially will be music to their ears. Maybe food for thought for some.

If we’re going to rid ourselves of the absolute clustershambles of failed businessmen that call themselves Brabco we need the fans united, and willing to engage, support and be proactive in any subsequent fight. And it may well head that way.

Which leads to my final point. Given the amount of negativity on here, and on social media over the summer, much of it justified, a lot of it not; it was disappointing to see only 40-50 fans in attendance. When we hear so many complaints about the club not being open or ho eat about what’s going on, that’s a disappointing turnout when the club do engage.

Apologies for the quoting the whole post, the edit function does not appear to be working.

Part of the reason for the low turn out might well be down to holidays and work.

[Dunning1874]

How was Henk Van Schaik for you?

I know you improved considerably after January, but I have to say I’m a bit concerned about having two of your centre backs from last season in the Championship.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

How was Henk Van Schaik for you?
I know you improved considerably after January, but I have to say I’m a bit concerned about having two of your centre backs from last season in the Championship.

He wasn't awful but he wasn't exactly great IMO. You could tell he was inexperienced and struggled a bit positionally.

I'm fairly surprised he's found himself at Morton.

[Boghead ranter]

1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said:

How was Henk Van Schaik for you?

I know you improved considerably after January, but I have to say I’m a bit concerned about having two of your centre backs from last season in the Championship.

His Dad liked something I said on a Dumbarton thread on Facebook once, if that helps any.

[microdave]

How was Henk Van Schaik for you?
I know you improved considerably after January, but I have to say I’m a bit concerned about having two of your centre backs from last season in the Championship.

Like BBPF said he was alright but he only played six times for us. He played five times and didn't lose a game but that wasn't really down to him. He then picked up an injury that kept him out for two months before playing the final half hour in the last game. I too was surprised that he'll be playing in the championship this season but good luck to him.

I've got more time for him than his compatriot Johann Cruyff since Henk had the sense to actually sign for us!

[TheFarPost]

14 hours ago, The Moonster said:

I ended up caught up with work last night and never made it down but I must admit, it worries me that board and manager are not on the same page in respect of the budget.

 

That's not the case.  Obviously both the manager and the board would both like the budget to be bigger, but the resources are simply not there (and not for lack of trying), and everyone recognises that. Our budget is tighter than most of our competitors, for sure.  The manager is his own man and operates in a highly professional way. Relations are cordial and respectful. 

[Jan Vojáček]

How was Henk Van Schaik for you?
I know you improved considerably after January, but I have to say I’m a bit concerned about having two of your centre backs from last season in the Championship.

He messaged my mate during the Motherwell game saying Mon the Sons. So he’s an absolute good egg imo.

Get the feeling he could either develop into an absolute Rolls-Royce of a centre-half, or a total bombscare. Seemed to flick between both for us. With the right coaching and an experienced guy alongside him I’d fancy him to do well...But it’ll take time, he’s barely played any senior football and that shows.

[Dunning1874]

Cheers all for the responses. Clearly a gamble, but then pretty much all our signings are and all things considered I’d rather be gambling on someone like Van Schaik than Ryan McGeever. Sorry about that one.