Sons' sorrow

[Howlin' Wilf]

Maybe but there's a huge difference between losing a civil case and being found guilty in a criminal case.

A criminal record and its ramifications being one I can think of.

[Howlin' Wilf]

A defeat, a red card, Flannery taking pot shots on Facebook, current captain retires, former players touted for returns and now a rather trivial discussion on the classification of Ross Forbes position. A weekend in the life of a Sons fan.
We'll see you all again for a re-run of this on the 27th of January.

We can’t have trivial discussions on P and B. Oh wait......

[FraserDFC]

Some comments on that Facebook page really baffle me. I tend to stay off it as it really makes me question the sanity of posters when they post such ludicrous statements (hello Mr Flannery). It also genuinely stuns me that there is an element of support that still somehow have an allegiance or loyalty to Aitken, wake up and smell the coffee, he is the major contributing factor as to why we are in this mess.

As for Dowie leaving, part of me was slightly saddened as I like the big man, he was a top player for us last season but I’m afraid this season he has been well below par and maybe it is time right enough to pursue another career out-with football. I also don’t believe that he would have ‘ bailed’ as Flannery described it had we not had an adequate replacement in the pipeline.

Interesting times ahead.

 

 

 

[FifeSons]

You couldn’t have written a script for how farcical this season has been... #toughtyouwellmate

[pleslie99]

Flannery seems a bit bitter and seems to be revelling in our current predicament. He didn't get the job, ok, but did he have better credentials than Duffy? Or indeed anyone else that applied? He's managed what, once, in the juniors/lowland? I understand his passion but surely he can see we needed an experienced head in the door to steady a ship that was/is letting in gallons of water.

On the other point about Dowie leaving, would Duffy have someone lined up? I hope so, however, Dowie is looking after himself, his football career is coming to (at) an end and he needs to look after his future. He clearly had this in the pipeline, he may or may not have informed the club of his intentions in advance, if he didn't then Duffy I assume doesn't have anyone lined up. Maybe this new job that he has been preparing for has been affecting his performances on the pitch this season.

[Jan Vojáček]

12 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

You couldn’t have written a script for how farcical this season has been... #toughtyouwellmate

I hope that someone has recently written out three pages of notes on it in preparation for the end of the season.

[lionel wickson]

4 hours ago, FraserDFC said:

Some comments on that Facebook page really baffle me. I tend to stay off it as it really makes me question the sanity of posters when they post such ludicrous statements (hello Mr Flannery). It also genuinely stuns me that there is an element of support that still somehow have an allegiance or loyalty to Aitken, wake up and smell the coffee, he is the major contributing factor as to why we are in this mess.

As for Dowie leaving, part of me was slightly saddened as I like the big man, he was a top player for us last season but I’m afraid this season he has been well below par and maybe it is time right enough to pursue another career out-with football. I also don’t believe that he would have ‘ bailed’ as Flannery described it had we not had an adequate replacement in the pipeline.

Interesting times ahead.

 

 

 

I particularly enjoy the comments from fans who bemoan our lack of finance for signings and the club's general direction of travel, by deciding that the best option is not to attend any matches until the financial situation and signing policy improves.

Edited January 14, 2019 by lionel wickson
spelling

[O'Kelly Isley III]

You couldn’t have written a script for how farcical this season has been... #toughtyouwellmate

In terms of a Season Horribilis, this one is shaping up beautifully to be the best since 1988/89, or to be more precise The Georgian Period.

Pat Carney's diving header debut own goal at home to Arbroath, Geordie Elliott turning up at Inverness half-jaked on the Saturday morning...Peter Wharton being announced as 'T.Rialist' at Hampden, etc.,. You really had to be there.

[lionel wickson]

2 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

In terms of a Season Horribilis, this one is shaping up beautifully to be the best since 1988/89, or to be more precise The Georgian Period.

Pat Carney's diving header debut own goal at home to Arbroath, Geordie Elliott turning up at Inverness half-jaked on the Saturday morning...Peter Wharton being announced as 'T.Rialist' at Hampden, etc.,. You really had to be there.

Right enough, he certainly couldn't lace Kenny Wilson's boots in more ways than one...

[super-son]

On the other point about Dowie leaving, would Duffy have someone lined up? I hope so, however, Dowie is looking after himself, his football career is coming to (at) an end and he needs to look after his future. He clearly had this in the pipeline, he may or may not have informed the club of his intentions in advance, if he didn't then Duffy I assume doesn't have anyone lined up. Maybe this new job that he has been preparing for has been affecting his performances on the pitch this season.

Even if Dowie hadn't announced that he was leaving, I would like to think that Duffy would have a couple of centre backs in mind anyway. Considering the fact that we are in desperate need of at least one CB with Mango and Perry both out with no return in sight and Cars well having to fill in at the back for a good while now. If Duffy didn't have at least 2 players in mind for that position, incase of any deals falling through I would be pretty concerned tbh.

[Homer Sandoval]

11 hours ago, lionel wickson said:

I particularly enjoy the comments from fans who bemoan our lack of finance for signings and the club's general direction of travel, by deciding that the best option is not to attend any matches until the financial situation and signing policy improves.

This state of affairs is not exclusive to the Sons, but you make an excellent point. It's a vicious and never-ending circle that lower league part-time clubs have to contend with. Dumbarton's success in being in the Championship for so long was clearly masking a deeper set of problems which are manifesting itself now.  That said, the horrendous personnel problems with the current squad would render any club dysfunctional. I really feel for all concerned and I have friends who are close the action, so to speak. It's difficult too for fans who want instant and continued success. A poor team reflects in attendances and more often than not the serial complainers don't go along anyway, save for the odd game which vindicates their bile.  There is too an ironic expectation too from supporters to expect club officials to dig into their pockets (why?) and at the same time don't do likewise by going along to a game.  Someone else can always do better, it appears.

[Howlin' Wilf]

This state of affairs is not exclusive to the Sons, but you make an excellent point. It's a vicious and never-ending circle that lower league part-time clubs have to contend with. Dumbarton's success in being in the Championship for so long was clearly masking a deeper set of problems which are manifesting itself now.  That said, the horrendous personnel problems with the current squad would render any club dysfunctional. I really feel for all concerned and I have friends who are close the action, so to speak. It's difficult too for fans who want instant and continued success. A poor team reflects in attendances and more often than not the serial complainers don't go along anyway, save for the odd game which vindicates their bile.  There is too an ironic expectation too from supporters to expect club officials to dig into their pockets (why?) and at the same time don't do likewise by going along to a game.  Someone else can always do better, it appears.

This.

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, Homer Sandoval said:

This state of affairs is not exclusive to the Sons, but you make an excellent point. It's a vicious and never-ending circle that lower league part-time clubs have to contend with. Dumbarton's success in being in the Championship for so long was clearly masking a deeper set of problems which are manifesting itself now.  That said, the horrendous personnel problems with the current squad would render any club dysfunctional. I really feel for all concerned and I have friends who are close the action, so to speak. It's difficult too for fans who want instant and continued success. A poor team reflects in attendances and more often than not the serial complainers don't go along anyway, save for the odd game which vindicates their bile.  There is too an ironic expectation too from supporters to expect club officials to dig into their pockets (why?) and at the same time don't do likewise by going along to a game.  Someone else can always do better, it appears.

What I find frustrating/annoying/strange is that it only takes say 6 weeks of bad form for people to decide to stay at home instead of coming to a game, yet 6 years of success in Scotland's second tier as the best part time team in the country and we still weren't able to build our support - if anything our support dwindled towards the end.  We were a bawhair away from entering the play-offs to the Premiership, we went that far in the Scottish Cup that we had to submit an application in case we ended up in Europe, yet we could still barely muster 600 bodies through the home end. If a poor team causes folk to stay away until things get better, why doesn't a good team bring in more fans which allows us to build on that success?

[Homer Sandoval]

14 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

What I find frustrating/annoying/strange is that it only takes say 6 weeks of bad form for people to decide to stay at home instead of coming to a game, yet 6 years of success in Scotland's second tier as the best part time team in the country and we still weren't able to build our support - if anything our support dwindled towards the end.  We were a bawhair away from entering the play-offs to the Premiership, we went that far in the Scottish Cup that we had to submit an application in case we ended up in Europe, yet we could still barely muster 600 bodies through the home end. If a poor team causes folk to stay away until things get better, why doesn't a good team bring in more fans which allows us to build on that success?

You've just asked the question that every lower league chairman asks himself. Years of relative success are forgotten in an instant. 99 things right out of 100 attempts and heaven help if you get one thing wrong, even if that perceived failure is outwith logical control. It's the modern world. 

[George Parr]

24 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

What I find frustrating/annoying/strange is that it only takes say 6 weeks of bad form for people to decide to stay at home instead of coming to a game, yet 6 years of success in Scotland's second tier as the best part time team in the country and we still weren't able to build our support - if anything our support dwindled towards the end.  We were a bawhair away from entering the play-offs to the Premiership, we went that far in the Scottish Cup that we had to submit an application in case we ended up in Europe, yet we could still barely muster 600 bodies through the home end. If a poor team causes folk to stay away until things get better, why doesn't a good team bring in more fans which allows us to build on that success?

I'm not surprised our support dwindled throughout the Championship years. Whilst undoubtedly successful (borderline miraculous!), more often than not we were up against it in an ugly battle for points. Always the underdog becomes tiring.

I wouldn't be shocked if it was identified that a chunk of our supporters enjoyed the 3rd Div league title season over any of the years in the Championship and that more new fans were attracted during that season.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Consolidate

[The Moonster]

3 minutes ago, Consolidate said:

I'm not surprised our support dwindled throughout the Championship years. Whilst undoubtedly successful (borderline miraculous!), more often than not we were up against it in an ugly battle for points. Always the underdog becomes tiring.

I wouldn't be shocked if it was identified that a chunk of our supporters enjoyed the 3rd Div league title season over any of the years in the Championship and that more new fans were attracted during that season.

Being favourites hasn't been much fun either.  I find it incredibly sad that people view things that way but I don't really see how we change attitudes.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Being favourites hasn't been much fun either.  I find it incredibly sad that people view things that way but I don't really see how we change attitudes.

We can't.

Undoubtedly we'll get more bodies through the door if we're on a proper winning run. If we had the form of Arbroath for example our crowds would be far bigger, the challenge is then to keep those folk coming back. Fairweather fans don't tend to care what level it's at, if there's a chance of a title challenge or playoff success, which has followed a good run of results over a season they will be interested. Grinding out points in the Championship doesn't appeal to them, especially when it was getting to the stage it was 20 quid to get in.

It's been a long time since a Dumbarton team was involved in a title battle or given us a proper good run of results. This combined with the constantly rising price of attending football is only going to lead to one thing. Attracting new fans is also impossible due to price, I've lost count of how many times I've heard "Nearly 20 quid to watch Dumbarton!?". Not a Dumbarton only issue FWIW.

In terms of the hardcore support - season tickets sales are down because our season tickets don't represent value for money vs walk up prices unfortunately. When I worked it out at the start of the season it really wasn't worth my while buying one because I knew I'd miss more than 2 or 3 games over the season. A season ticket would have been doing me out of money. I'd love to be able to blast over 200 quid on a season ticket, even if it wasn't great value for me personally, but I'm simply not in a position to do that due to other committments. I know of a fair whack of folk who are in the same boat. It's all well and good saying it helps the club etc but not everyone can afford a lump sum like that unless it represents a proper saving for them over the course of a season.

[Old Scrotum]

16 hours ago, pleslie99 said:

 Dowie is looking after himself, his football career is coming to (at) an end and he needs to look after his future. He clearly had this in the pipeline

Oh, FFS!

[The Moonster]

10 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

We can't.

Undoubtedly we'll get more bodies through the door if we're on a proper winning run. If we had the form of Arbroath for example our crowds would be far bigger, the challenge is then to keep those folk coming back. Fairweather fans don't tend to care what level it's at, if there's a chance of a title challenge or playoff success, which has followed a good run of results over a season they will be interested. Grinding out points in the Championship doesn't appeal to them, especially when it was getting to the stage it was 20 quid to get in.

It's been a long time since a Dumbarton team was involved in a title battle or given us a proper good run of results. This combined with the constantly rising price of attending football is only going to lead to one thing. Attracting new fans is also impossible due to price, I've lost count of how many times I've heard "Nearly 20 quid to watch Dumbarton!?". Not a Dumbarton only issue FWIW.

In terms of the hardcore support - season tickets sales are down because our season tickets don't represent value for money vs walk up prices unfortunately. When I worked it out at the start of the season it really wasn't worth my while buying one because I knew I'd miss more than 2 or 3 games over the season. A season ticket would have been doing me out of money. I'd love to be able to blast over 200 quid on a season ticket, even if it wasn't great value for me personally, but I'm simply not in a position to do that due to other committments. I know of a fair whack of folk who are in the same boat. It's all well and good saying it helps the club etc but not everyone can afford a lump sum like that unless it represents a proper saving for them over the course of a season.

In 08/09 when we won the 3rd Division we had an average crowd of 722. The season before that (when we nearly finished bottom) we had 560. Our first season after relegation we had 709 (Previous 3 seasons in 2nd Division we had an average of around 900). So nearly 200 fans deserted us when we had a shite season in the 3rd Division, yet we don't see any sort of tangible increase in attendances (above our normal average) when we had a title winning side. We actually had less fans watching us get promoted to the 1st Division (660) than we did when we got releagted to the 3rd (I concede away supports are playing a part here but point still stands that we don't really see an increase when we do well). 

We either do something very wrong or simply people don't give a f**k about us. It's utterly depressing. 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

In 08/09 when we won the 3rd Division we had an average crowd of 722. The season before that (when we nearly finished bottom) we had 560. Our first season after relegation we had 709 (Previous 3 seasons in 2nd Division we had an average of around 900). So nearly 200 fans deserted us when we had a shite season in the 3rd Division, yet we don't see any sort of tangible increase in attendances (above our normal average) when we had a title winning side. We actually had less fans watching us get promoted to the 1st Division (660) than we did when we got releagted to the 3rd (I concede away supports are playing a part here but point still stands that we don't really see an increase when we do well). 
We either do something very wrong or simply people don't give a f**k about us. It's utterly depressing. 

People don't give a f**k. It's as simple as that. What we need to focus on is getting youngsters through the door and holding on to the hardcore support. There's no short term fix, it's all about convincing youngsters to watch us instead of Rangers and Celtic. It's easier said than done.

The current group of youngsters calling themselves 'ultras' is a good example, if we can hold on to say half of them we'll be doing well. No doubt the majority will eventually chuck it but we should try our best to keep them coming back.