Sons' sorrow

[pleslie99]

I'll take anyone who can satisfactorily answer @Kenny Ashwood's questions re EXACTLY what tactics and formation they are going to employ to make us better.

He's been very quiet since the weekend. Do you think he only gets out at weekends when the nurses aren't looking?

[lionel wickson]

 

3 minutes ago, pleslie99 said:

He's been very quiet since the weekend. Do you think he only gets out at weekends when the nurses aren't looking?

Probably had to get back to Castle Huntly before Monday morning.

[sonsanorak]

The Ian Murray was a strange one; he's considering a move abroad to be assistant and has a month to mull it over. Big hint there being he has another job offer and other clubs need to approach him quickly.

I've accepted aitkens with us for the time being, but we re a results business and we must remain competitively placed in the league.

[optimistic]

Murray........the return

[justin time]

20 hours ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

Given that he won 3 out of his first 5 games in charge the statistics don't look too bad for Aitken. Remove those 5 games,where the 'new manager bounce' could be given as the reason, and we have a manager who, in 18 months, has presided over just 13 wins in 62 games.

That's Paul '12 wins in 67' Martin-esque form.

Wow - that's even worse than i thought.  He seems to always have been on the verge of the sack, then pull out a win from nowhere then revert to being crap again for 6-7 games, then the pattern repeats.  One thing though, he cant complain about lack of support from the board, in this day and age, not many get the time and backing he's had.  Ultimately though his future will be decided, not by what Dumbarton do, but how well st.mirren do between now and the end of the season.  As we know Dumabrton will plod along as above.

[Jan Vojáček]

2 minutes ago, justin time said:

Wow - that's even worse than i thought.  He seems to always have been on the verge of the sack, then pull out a win from nowhere then revert to being crap again for 6-7 games, then the pattern repeats.  One thing though, he cant complain about lack of support from the board, in this day and age, not many get the time and backing he's had.  Ultimately though his future will be decided, not by what Dumbarton do, but how well st.mirren do between now and the end of the season.  As we know Dumabrton will plod along as above.

He does have a habit of pulling a rabbit out the hat just as we lose all hope. At the end of last season I remember being asked if I thought he was the right man for the job and, fully truthfully, I replied that I had no idea.

There was a lot of dross last season. Games where I got completely fed up with him, a shedload of players, weird tactics and bizarre post-match interviews. But every now and then we'd put in a performance like the 3-2 v Hibs or 3-1 v Alloa where you'd think we're actually pretty good. Combine that with the fact players seem to enjoy playing with him and I'd think we're in a pretty decent position.

There are three games I can think of that immediately sum up his tenure. The 3-3 draw with Raith was beyond dross for 80 minutes, but then it was fantastic and is a game I'll remember forever. That's his tenure summed up. A lot of terrible, terrible performances and football - but a truly memorable couple of results that we didn't expect.

Then there was the 1-1 draw with Falkirk when we had ten men. We showed real fight in that game, had two (iirc) good goals ruled out, and equalised with an injury time penalty. It was the definition of a team playing for the manager.

The next week we lost 6-0 to Queen of the South, had about two shots, were a disorganised shambles and he made absolutely mental substitutions.  

He's had an admirable amount of support from the fans, but the two Bonnyrigg results have tipped the majority of sane ones over the edge now I think. Even a couple of flukey wins won't be enough to win most people (myself included) round I don't think. The board have stuck by him, though I think that's more down to the fact we can't afford to pay him off putting him (and the club) in an odd position.

[The Moonster]

13 minutes ago, justin time said:

Ultimately though his future will be decided, not by what Dumbarton do, but how well st.mirren do between now and the end of the season.  As we know Dumabrton will plod along as above.

[Skyline Drifter]

22 hours ago, The Moonster said:

The margins in this league are extremely fine though, if we'd managed the home wins against St Mirren and Queen of the South (or even Dunfermline) instead of draws then the league table looks much more favourable for us. 

If you had lost at Palmerston instead of winning, as you really should have, then it would look much worse too. You can only go by the goals in the net though.

[The Moonster]

7 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

If you had lost at Palmerston instead of winning, as you really should have, then it would look much worse too. You can only go by the goals in the net though.

The margins are fine, yes.

[Frank Quitely]

4 hours ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

He does have a habit of pulling a rabbit out the hat just as we lose all hope. At the end of last season I remember being asked if I thought he was the right man for the job and, fully truthfully, I replied that I had no idea.

There was a lot of dross last season. Games where I got completely fed up with him, a shedload of players, weird tactics and bizarre post-match interviews. But every now and then we'd put in a performance like the 3-2 v Hibs or 3-1 v Alloa where you'd think we're actually pretty good. Combine that with the fact players seem to enjoy playing with him and I'd think we're in a pretty decent position.

There are three games I can think of that immediately sum up his tenure. The 3-3 draw with Raith was beyond dross for 80 minutes, but then it was fantastic and is a game I'll remember forever. That's his tenure summed up. A lot of terrible, terrible performances and football - but a truly memorable couple of results that we didn't expect.

Then there was the 1-1 draw with Falkirk when we had ten men. We showed real fight in that game, had two (iirc) good goals ruled out, and equalised with an injury time penalty. It was the definition of a team playing for the manager.

The next week we lost 6-0 to Queen of the South, had about two shots, were a disorganised shambles and he made absolutely mental substitutions.  

He's had an admirable amount of support from the fans, but the two Bonnyrigg results have tipped the majority of sane ones over the edge now I think. Even a couple of flukey wins won't be enough to win most people (myself included) round I don't think. The board have stuck by him, though I think that's more down to the fact we can't afford to pay him off putting him (and the club) in an odd position.

Everyone seems to be applying logic which could normally apply in a 'normal' situation.  Has anyone considered that we may well now have a Manager and Assistant whose hearts are no longer in it, and a Board of Directors who are accepting of that situation because they have no money to either get rid of them or hire a new appointment ?  In such an 'abnormal' scenario the games and results simply become ugly background noise until the situation is addressed. 

[The Moonster]

15 minutes ago, Frank Quitely said:

Everyone seems to be applying logic which could normally apply in a 'normal' situation.  Has anyone considered that we may well now have a Manager and Assistant whose hearts are no longer in it, and a Board of Directors who are accepting of that situation because they have no money to either get rid of them or hire a new appointment ?  In such an 'abnormal' scenario the games and results simply become ugly background noise until the situation is addressed. 

I considered it.  Then I decided that situation is entirely unpalatable and could lead to serious depression so filled my head with happy, positive thoughts.

In all seriousness, I'd like to think that both Stevie's are still doing the best job they can - we know they have ambitions of full-time management and giving up the ghost with us at a point in the season where we are technically on track for survival would look fairly dreadful to any future employers.  I'd also like to think they have a fair bit of pride about them, I don't think anyone can watch Stevie's post match interview after Bonnyrigg and think he wasn't hurting. 

They may well have the opportunity to right some wrongs they made in the summer in January and I think (given our current financial situation) giving them another couple of months in the job is probably the best way forward, if far from ideal.

[Boghead ranter]

Unless they're on some monstrous deal, how much can 6 months pay actually be?

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, Boghead ranter said:

Unless they're on some monstrous deal, how much can 6 months pay actually be?

For a one of the highest thought of managers in League 1, his assistant and backroom staff? Probably a decent amount aye.

[Deputy Keeper]

4 hours ago, The Moonster said:

I considered it.  Then I decided that situation is entirely unpalatable and could lead to serious depression so filled my head with happy, positive thoughts.

In all seriousness, I'd like to think that both Stevie's are still doing the best job they can - we know they have ambitions of full-time management and giving up the ghost with us at a point in the season where we are technically on track for survival would look fairly dreadful to any future employers.  I'd also like to think they have a fair bit of pride about them, I don't think anyone can watch Stevie's post match interview after Bonnyrigg and think he wasn't hurting. 

They may well have the opportunity to right some wrongs they made in the summer in January and I think (given our current financial situation) giving them another couple of months in the job is probably the best way forward, if far from ideal.

Got to go with Moonster rather than FQ here. The manager can fairly be criticised on a number of his signings. Thinking back though on the last half dozen or so league matches (was fortunate enough to miss the Cup replay), while quality may have been lacking, there has been no lack of effort. In particular, having attended the away games in Paisley, Dumfries and at Easter Road, the players (well, possibly with one notable exception), gave it their absolute all.

While I'd agree that the current Board of Directors wouldn't change the management team even if they wanted to, as that would involve investing money in the Club, I don't go along with the idea that the two Stevies' hearts are no longer in it. Sons are indeed a hard watch just now, but for me that's down to the overall quality of player we have at our disposal, rather than any lack of motivation on their part or the manager's..

Edited December 14, 2016 by Deputy Keeper
punctuation

[Nowhereman]

Does anyone know if home fans need tickets for the Dundee United game on Hogmanay? United are selling tickets on their website.

[The Moonster]

8 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

Does anyone know if home fans need tickets for the Dundee United game on Hogmanay? United are selling tickets on their website.

I would imagine so, might be better phoning the club though.

[Boghead ranter]

21 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

Does anyone know if home fans need tickets for the Dundee United game on Hogmanay? United are selling tickets on their website.

@Kenny Ashwood should be able to keep you right with the specifics.

[Howlin' Wilf]

Does anyone know if Brabco are involved in this?

 

 

[sonsanorak]

Wilf; i watched an fa cup tie last season on the beeb and they really fussed over the ownership. Its the Class of 92 group and a thai backer. There was a quite interesting bbc programme on their attempts to run the club.

This new ground may well be pie in the sky however. Hopefully its not a gretna type deal and they can grow the home support.

[ayrunitedfw]

How's Ryan Stevenson doing for yous? Noticed he scored a belter in your win v QOTS.