oht Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Judging from the lack of coverage in the newspapers, I take it the "rally" in George Square and the "counter-rally" on Saturday both proved to be the almighty yawns they deserved to be? About 1000 at a peace rally in Belfast yesterday. All "bigoted, idiotic scum" to vikington im sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 About 1000 at a peace rally in Belfast yesterday. All "bigoted, idiotic scum" to vikington im sure. The Belfast Telegraph is giving the protestors absolute pelters - this from the paper that was known once upon a time as the Orange Order's mouthpiece. Today's editorial: "Anyone foolish enough to still believe that Union flag protesters should be indulged must be made to understand what happened on the streets of greater Belfast last night. This was no cry from the voiceless, no cause worthy of special committees looking to dole out favours: this is pure lawlessness masquerading as a movement. Anyone who thinks a peaceful protest can be had in this current climate must live on Mars. While Belfast city centre shops and restaurants lie empty on what should be their busiest time of the year, about 1,500 people have us all under siege. The police are again left in the firing line as the politicians virtually give up trying to force the genie back into the bottle they opened. There can be no excuse, no weasel words that this is legitimate protest any more. What started as road blocks in the city centre, intolerable enough for an economy under extreme pressure, ended in paramilitary-backed violence in east Belfast again. Youngsters used as frontline troops while paramilitary thugs loitered in the background. On the Newtownards Road, police again found themselves on the receiving end of highly organised thuggery and violence. So did a reporter with this newspaper, simply trying to do his job, and beaten for his pains. How chilling to read of the council meeting stormed by rioters who demanded an Alliance councillor leave the building within half-an-hour. He bravely stood his ground but was left shaken. We have heard much of people's right to protest recently but not enough in support of the very democratic foundations upon which we are supposed to be building our future. For make no mistake, these events are the result of the loose words uttered by our politicians. And still we wait for proper leadership. But we heard nothing. Only after we stop this madness can any proper conversation be had about representation and deprivation in our loyalist communities. This newspaper prides itself on its cross-community principles of tolerance and justice. But today we say this simply cannot be allowed to go on. We and the vast majority in this region expect action today. We deserve nothing less." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 That will go down well The one on the right looks like something Mr Ben would have got on one of his adventures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS-18 ICBM Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Sinn Fein lit the fuse, Unionists exploded. They knew exactly what they were doing, and it had the intended effect. And if true, does that makes the loyalists violence over such petty political shenanigans 'justified' in your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 The one on the right looks like something Mr Ben would have got on one of his adventures. I want one. The Pope's a Nazi. Will that do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 And if true, does that makes the loyalists violence over such petty political shenanigans 'justified' in your mind? No. The Pope's a Nazi. Will that do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS-18 ICBM Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 No. The Pope's a Nazi. Will that do? Which one, or both, the white pope or the black pope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillinger Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 As a Unionist, enough. Sod flags it's just not worth the trouble we are getting over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKMAN Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Get the rubber bullets unleashed on these cavemen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 Is there any flag that would be acceptable to both unionist and nationalist in NI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half Rice Half Chips Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Is there any flag that would be acceptable to both unionist and nationalist in NI? I always thought the flag of st patrick would be the most appropriate. White background with red diagonal cross like the saltire. It's northern ireland though, someone would object. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half Rice Half Chips Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 The Belfast Telegraph is giving the protestors absolute pelters - this from the paper that was known once upon a time as the Orange Order's mouthpiece. Today's editorial: "Anyone foolish enough to still believe that Union flag protesters should be indulged must be made to understand what happened on the streets of greater Belfast last night. This was no cry from the voiceless, no cause worthy of special committees looking to dole out favours: this is pure lawlessness masquerading as a movement. Anyone who thinks a peaceful protest can be had in this current climate must live on Mars. While Belfast city centre shops and restaurants lie empty on what should be their busiest time of the year, about 1,500 people have us all under siege. The police are again left in the firing line as the politicians virtually give up trying to force the genie back into the bottle they opened. There can be no excuse, no weasel words that this is legitimate protest any more. What started as road blocks in the city centre, intolerable enough for an economy under extreme pressure, ended in paramilitary-backed violence in east Belfast again. Youngsters used as frontline troops while paramilitary thugs loitered in the background. On the Newtownards Road, police again found themselves on the receiving end of highly organised thuggery and violence. So did a reporter with this newspaper, simply trying to do his job, and beaten for his pains. How chilling to read of the council meeting stormed by rioters who demanded an Alliance councillor leave the building within half-an-hour. He bravely stood his ground but was left shaken. We have heard much of people's right to protest recently but not enough in support of the very democratic foundations upon which we are supposed to be building our future. For make no mistake, these events are the result of the loose words uttered by our politicians. And still we wait for proper leadership. But we heard nothing. Only after we stop this madness can any proper conversation be had about representation and deprivation in our loyalist communities. This newspaper prides itself on its cross-community principles of tolerance and justice. But today we say this simply cannot be allowed to go on. We and the vast majority in this region expect action today. We deserve nothing less." Excellent editorial from the unionist BT. Glad to see that their moral compass is pointing in the right direction, unlike certain posters here who would go the appeasement route and give the loyalist gangs a free pass for their thuggery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 “@Kilsally: flag protests: `encourage all interested parties from around the Province & UK to join us in a mass lantern release on New Year’s Eve 23.59” Aye, good luck with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Is there any flag that would be acceptable to both unionist and nationalist in NI? Yes, tried and tested in fact. The Red Hand of the O'Neill's on a plain white background is popular with fans of Ulster Rugby and Tyrone Gaelic Football fans (they share the same badge). The O'Neill clan are themselves a politically acceptable totem to everyone in Northern Ireland because they were the medieval/early Modern equivalent of the Bacon family - they fought with everybody. The Isle Of Man has one of the best flags in the world by keeping it simple with a distinctive logo. No crosses, stars or other ameliorations required. Time for Northern Ireland to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 Yes, tried and tested in fact. The Red Hand of the O'Neill's on a plain white background is popular with fans of Ulster Rugby and Tyrone Gaelic Football fans (they share the same badge). The O'Neill clan are themselves a politically acceptable totem to everyone in Northern Ireland because they were the medieval/early Modern equivalent of the Bacon family - they fought with everybody. The Isle Of Man has one of the best flags in the world by keeping it simple with a distinctive logo. No crosses, stars or other ameliorations required. Time for Northern Ireland to do the same. If it was tried and tested, what happened?! I know i'm looking at it from an outside, but i think people in NI should be trying to embrace being from NI, not making divisions with Unionists and Nationalists. For example how many political parties do you have in NI that are not either a unionists party or a nationalists party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston_bud Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Was the tricolour not originally designed with orange deliberately included for the orangemen in the north? They still aren't happy with that. Like has been said, it's Northern Ireland - someone will complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1888bhoy67 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Tin hat on, but with the state of the economy, do people not have more important things to worry about than which feckin flag is flying over a cooncil building!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 If it was tried and tested, what happened?! Too many vested interested in keeping flags that specifically raised hackles - that's what happened, same as ever! I know i'm looking at it from an outside, but i think people in NI should be trying to embrace being from NI, not making divisions with Unionists and Nationalists. Some of the far-right groups tried pushing that as a win-win situation in the 1990s, & I think Billy Hutchieson and Gusty Spence tried pushing it to the knuckle trailing elements they were trying to save from themselves. Ken Maginnis came as near as anyone in the mainstream to backing it after being caught out jumping around like a loony when Ireland stuffed England in the rugby home championships, and declared that he was Irish, but one that wanted to remain part of the UK. Instant secular sainthood for him overnight in Fermanagh and much gnashing of teeth from Sinn Fein & the SDLP seeing any hopes they had of taking the seat off him vanishing for good so long as he stood for it, but it didn't catch on with any of the rest of the unionists as a line that might have softened relations with local Catholics, which probably says more about them than anything else. The problem is of course too many enjoy annoying those in Eire by saying they're not Irish, whilst the Protestant middle classes in the south (especially the late Conor Cruise O'Brien - who ought to have been PM if there was any justice) accused those in the North of having the Irish "cringe", being in reality ashamed of their ancestry and aspiring to be English, same as you get in Scotland. There is of course the old adage of (I think) George Bernard Shaw that the problem with both Irelands is that they're always looking for someone to be Irish at - usually with a "so what about it?" tagged on. And 99% of the time, it's for the fun of it rather than any perceived ills. For example how many political parties do you have in NI that are not either a unionists party or a nationalists party? The Ulster Unionists were originally the Conservative Party of Northern Ireland, then they merged with the Liberal Unionists, hence the name change. The Social Democratic & Labour Party used to take the Labour whip in the House Of Commons on national issues, not sure if that's the case however any longer. One major problem they have in NI (same in the south) is that the locals tend to be conservative with a small "c", so trying to get parties with any other sort of difference other than being "unionist" or "republican" is a problem - people simply won't vote for you. You only have to ask the hard left on both sides of the border how far they've struggled trying to get anything that remotely reeks of socialism over to the locals when they've been denounced as "the devil's work" in both Catholic chapel and Reformed church alike. Before anyone says "what about Sinn Fein", their "Marxism" was a gimmick to look radical (and to get funds from the likes of Moscow and Gaddafi) they were swift to drop once they started winning control of councils & had to face the realities of implementing policies - exactly as Bernadette Devlin had predicted would happen (and it was precisely when people realised that she did "mean it" over the leftie stuff they dropped her like a hot brick). As both sides become more secular over time and the whole pseudo-religious tribalism feels increasingly daft, parties with real political policy differences will start to be taken more seriously. The cuffing the Alliance handed out to Peter Robinson in East Belfast was a significant crack in the ediface, but getting the Cherryvalley set to accept the bigger picture is one thing, getting those on the Falls and Shankill Roads to decide "it's the economy, stoopid!' when it comes to election day is another matter. You only have to see UK mainland elections to know there's plenty quite happy to vote for the same useless specimens time & again out of some misguided sense of loyalty and "small c" conservatism to any sort of change, even to their own benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwififer Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 The herald is reporting that they are now going to protest at the Scottish Parliment tomorrow over the flag. They feel that 'unionism' is under attack and that they need to shout rude things at an empty building and two security guards. The better together or is it better but no wi the Tories or libs together campaign need this like a hole in the heid....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 The herald is reporting that they are now going to protest at the Scottish Parliment tomorrow over the flag. They feel that 'unionism' is under attack and that they need to shout rude things at an empty building and two security guards. The better together or is it better but no wi the Tories or libs together campaign need this like a hole in the heid....... och well the xmas shoppers will get to point and laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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