Belfast Council remove Union Flag

[topcat(The most tip top)]

How many potatoes does it take to kill an Irishman? None!

lol

Too soon! Too soon!

[Jacksgranda]

Ulster unionists don't see themselves as Irish, they see themselves as "Bradash".

Despite not actually being from Britain.

That's not the point - Republicans see Unionists as their "separated brethren", therefore Irish, so hating Ulster Unionists is anti-Irish sentiment.

And Republicans have gone out of their way since 1968 to persuade Ulster Unionists of the benefit of a United Ireland, and how much appreciated, welcomed and cherised we would be.

ETA; "Bradash", eh? How to win friends and influence people.I presume that's an attempt at a Belfast accent. 0/10. Most NI residents don't live in Belfast. I suppose mocking your accent would be fair game. Is the opposite of "Bradash" "Oirish"? Would somebody labelling people "Oirish" in the context of this thread be acceptable?

[~~~]

That's not the point - Republicans see Unionists as their "separated brethren", therefore Irish, so hating Ulster Unionists is anti-Irish sentiment.

And Republicans have gone out of their way since 1968 to persuade Ulster Unionists of the benefit of a United Ireland, and how much appreciated, welcomed and cherised we would be.

ETA; "Bradash", eh? How to win friends and influence people.I presume that's an attempt at a Belfast accent. 0/10. Most NI residents don't live in Belfast. I suppose mocking your accent would be fair game. Is the opposite of "Bradash" "Oirish"? Would somebody labelling people "Oirish" in the context of this thread be acceptable?

I'm not clued up about these things, but i always assumed Unionists in NI where just Irish Brits and Republicans as just Irish

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Ulster unionists don't see themselves as Irish, they see themselves as "Bradash".

Despite not actually being from Britain.

They, and Dubliners for that matter, are from the British Isles

Although this term shouldn't necessarily be taken as an endorsment of any particular constitutional arrangement. In the same way that Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are from the Indian Subcontinent doesn't equate to demanding a reversal of partition.

[Jacksgranda]

I'm not clued up about these things, but i always assumed Unionists in NI where just Irish Brits and Republicans as just Irish

As everyone outside of (the island of) Ireland considers everyone from Ireland,whether from the north/Northern Ireland/ the south/the RoI or the islands off the coast, as Irish, you could be right! The only people who get tied up in knots about it are Irishmen! (Or Irish Britons.)

[H_B]

That's a bit rich, considering your blatant ignoring of HB's question. Shall I post it for you again? I genuinely would like to hear your answer to it.

You and I will be waiting a long time I fear.

It's standard apologist behaviour. On previous threads, where posters have singled out the Scottish people for their anti-Irish behaviour I gave those same posters the floor, after educating them about Ireland's shameful anti-Jewish history, to condemn the Irish people in the same way they had fallen over themselves to criticise the Scottish people.

Absolutely none of them did. The whataboutery commenced.

My particular favourite being, "Uhh, this is a thread about specifically ill treatment of Irish people... it's not appropriate to consider Irish ill-treatment of immigrant minorities"

lolwut?

[~~~]

As everyone outside of (the island of) Ireland considers everyone from Ireland,whether from the north/Northern Ireland/ the south/the RoI or the islands off the coast, as Irish, you could be right! The only people who get tied up in knots about it are Irishmen! (Or Irish Britons.)

Ah fair enough, it's not for the likes of me to tell people what nationality they should be.

I see myself as Scottish, not British and i've never identified the UJ as the flag of my country. but i'm well aware plenty of people do. I have no problem with that, since every individual is entitled to their own views.

Plus history has taught us forcing views of a group of people never ends well!

[Half Rice Half Chips]

You and I will be waiting a long time I fear.

It's standard apologist behaviour. On previous threads, where posters have singled out the Scottish people for their anti-Irish behaviour I gave those same posters the floor, after educating them about Ireland's shameful anti-Jewish history, to condemn the Irish people in the same way they had fallen over themselves to criticise the Scottish people.

Absolutely none of them did. The whataboutery commenced.

Surely the whataboutery commenced when you said "what about the Irish treatment of Jews?" as a retort to the Scots' treatment of the Irish?

lolwut?

[Half Rice Half Chips]

ETA; "Bradash", eh? How to win friends and influence people.I presume that's an attempt at a Belfast accent. 0/10. Most NI residents don't live in Belfast. I suppose mocking your accent would be fair game. Is the opposite of "Bradash" "Oirish"? Would somebody labelling people "Oirish" in the context of this thread be acceptable?

Sorry Jacksgranda, the "Bradash" jibe was with a Sammy Wilson, Willie McCrea DUP Orangeman-type character in mind, not the general NI population....

[H_B]

Surely the whataboutery commenced when you said "what about the Irish treatment of Jews?" as a retort to the Scots' treatment of the Irish?

lolwut?

Swing and a miss bawbag.

The Scottish treatment of Irish immigrants isn't in question. And it has been commented upon ad nauseam. It's not in dispute.

What is in dispute is whether it is in any way either unique to Scotland or indicative of anything other than a poor indigenous population trying to deal with mass immigration and the social problems that causes.

the fact the Irish have treated Jewish immigrants so badly, indeed going one stage further than Scotland and stopping them entering, tells you all you need to know abut the answer to the question above.

[~~~]

Must be shite being an Irish Jew

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Must be shite being an Irish Jew

On the subject of Irish Jews

Has anybody actually read Ulysses?

I know it's famously tough going but is it worth the effort?

[SS-18 ICBM]

Must be shite being an Irish Jew

Why were all Jews expelled from England in 1290 and banished from England until after Charles I was executed in 1649? Can anyone educate me on the reasons please?

[welshbairn]

On the subject of Irish Jews

Has anybody actually read Ulysses?

I know it's famously tough going but is it worth the effort?

Tried about 3 times, but I never get past the bit where 3 old guys are sitting around a fire waiting for a bottle of Guinness to warm up so the cork pops out.

On the subject of Jews in Ireland, they seem to have had an easier time of it in the North.. My link

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Why were all Jews expelled from England in 1290 and banished from England until after Charles I was executed in 1649? Can anyone educate me on the reasons please?

Presumably because they killed Jesus

[welshbairn]

Why were all Jews expelled from England in 1290 and banished from England until after Charles I was executed in 1649? Can anyone educate me on the reasons please?

The King owed them money.

[Half Rice Half Chips]

Swing and a miss bawbag.

The Scottish treatment of Irish immigrants isn't in question. And it has been commented upon ad nauseam. It's not in dispute.

What is in dispute is whether it is in any way either unique to Scotland or indicative of anything other than a poor indigenous population trying to deal with mass immigration and the social problems that causes.

the fact the Irish have treated Jewish immigrants so badly, indeed going one stage further than Scotland and stopping them entering, tells you all you need to know abut the answer to the question above.

"Bawbag"? That hurt.

Anyway, I had a browse through the following wikipedia link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Ireland

You definitely cherry-picked bits and pieces of information that suited your argument that Ireland was some sort of Nazi Germany sans the concentration camps.

For example, you've mentioned the Limerick Pogrom but neglected to include the following;

"Limerick's Jews fled. Many went to Cork, where trans-Atlantic passenger ships docked at Cobh. They intended to travel to America. The people of Cork welcomed them into their homes. Church halls were opened to feed and house the refugees. As a result many remained. Gerald Goldberg, a son of this migration, became Lord Mayor of Cork.

The boyott was condemned by many in Ireland, among them the influential Standish O'Grady in his paper All Ireland Review, depicting Jews and Irish as "brothers in a common struggle". The Land Leaguer Michael Davitt (author of The True Story of Anti-Semitic Persecutions in Russia), in the Freeman's Journal, attacked those who had participated in the riots and visited homes of Jewish victims in Limerick.His friend, Corkman William O'Brien MP, leader of the United Irish League and editor of the Irish People, had a Jewish wife, Sophie Raffalovic.Father Creagh was moved by his superiors initially to Belfast and then to an island in the Pacific Ocean. In 1914 he was promoted by the Pope to be Vicar Apostolic of Kimberley, Western Australia, a position he held until 1922. He died in Wellington, New Zealand in 1947. Joe Briscoe, son of Robert Briscoe, the Dublin Jewish politician, describes the Limerick episode as “an aberration in an otherwise almost perfect history of Ireland and its treatment of the Jews” (Shalom Ireland: a Social History of Jews in Modern Ireland by Ray Rivlin, published by Gill & MacMillan).

You've also condemned Eamonn de Valera's treatment of the Jews to the extent if one didn't know anything about the man one would be led to believe he was some sort of Irish Hitler. But again, you neglected to mention the following;

"Post-war, Jewish groups had great difficulty in getting refugee status for Jewish children, whilst at the same time, a plan to bring over four hundred Catholic Children from the Rhineland encountered no difficulties.The Department of Justice explained in 1948 that:

"It has always been the policy of the Minister for Justice to restrict the admission of Jewish aliens, for the reason that any substantial increase in our Jewish population might give rise to an anti-Semitic problem."

However, de Valera overruled the Department of Justice and the one hundred and fifty refugee Jewish children were brought to Ireland in 1948. Earlier, in 1946, one hundred Jewish children from Poland were brought to Clonyn Castle in County Meath by Solomon Schonfeld.In 2000 many of the Cloyne Castle children returned for a reunion. In 1952 he again had to overrule the Department of Justice to admit five Orthodox families who were fleeing the Communists. In 1966, the Dublin Jewish community arranged the planting and dedication of the Éamon de Valera Forest in Israel, near Nazareth, in recognition of his consistent support for Ireland's Jews.^{" (}The Jews of Ireland by Robert Tracy, published in the Summer 1999 edition of Judaism)

As you quite rightly say, no country has a perfect record in its treatment of immigrants, but at least try to be balanced and not cherry-pick the bad bits that just happen to suit your agenda.

By the way, the same goes for Caomhin and his bleating about the anti-Irish treatment in Scotland. Can we all move on now?!

[SS-18 ICBM]

The King owed them money.

Nothing ever changes eh?! Was that along with the entire nation of England same as it is today?

[SS-18 ICBM]

Presumably because they killed Jesus

If you have nothing clever to say you'd be as well not clicking on add reply cunto.

[welshbairn]

At ceremonies for the first Holocaust Memorial Day in Ireland, 26 January, 2003, Justice Minister Michael McDowell apologised for an Irish wartime policy that was inspired by "a culture of muted anti-Semitism in Ireland, which discouraged the immigration of thousands of Europe's threatened Jews". He went on to say: "At an official level, the Irish state was at best coldly polite and behind closed doors antipathetic, hostile and unfeeling towards the Jews."