Belfast Council remove Union Flag

[H_B]

Of course it seems ridiculous to you and I - we aren't living in the horrible little cesspit backwater that is NI. But you can see the reaction this and tit for tat "naming rights" over playgrounds and even park benches has caused.

That's the mentality of these fools. It's why Britain would be much better without them. They can fund their petty internecine little squabbles themselves.

[xbl]

Of course it seems ridiculous to you and I - we aren't living in the horrible little cesspit backwater that is NI. But you can see the reaction this and tit for tat "naming rights" over playgrounds and even park benches has caused.

That's the mentality of these fools. It's why Britain would be much better without them. They can fund their petty internecine little squabbles themselves.

I agree absolutely with the second part. Like you and VT, I think we'd be as well rid of them.

[vikingTON]

We couldn't just wash our hands of the place, you'll still have a large % of the population want to remain part of the UK

What relevance does that have to anything? Statehood isn't an 'opt-in' process.

If they want to stay part of the UK then they can move, though they'd be about the only group I'd be wiling to deny entry to, given their legacy of bigotry.

[H_B]

If they want to stay part of the UK then they can move, though they'd be about the only group I'd be wiling to deny entry to, given their legacy of bigotry.

Bradford is always a possibility.

[old school]

Good to see the protests continuing

[roverthemoon]

One of the interesting things is how some posters on here are assuming that the minute the demographics of Northern Ireland tip then there will be a vote for a United Ireland.

Of course that would be the case if we were dealing with a normal democracy and normal politics but we are not. Stormont operates on the basis of shared power with both sides having to agree to anything major and that won't change in the short term even if Sinn Fein become the biggest party or Sinn Fein and the SDLP gain a majority in the NI Assembly.

If it operated on a simple majority then there is no way the current majority unionist parties would give McGuinness et al a role in Government. The reason they are is because this is part of the agreement to share power. So even if McGuinness becomes First Minister he'll effectively have to share the role with Robinson as happens now.

To force a border poll would be to rip up the St Andrews Agreement and let one party have majority rule. If that happens there will be a return to violence as sure as night follows day. If taking down a flag generates an angry mob, ripping up the agreement to suit nationalists will create something much worse.

No one (other than a tiny minority) wants that so there will be no border poll for the foreseeable future and I suspect no United Ireland in my lifetime despite the wishful thinking of some on here.

[welshbairn]

Good to see the protests continuing

Not fond of the constabulary then? Good loyal RUC men, most of them..

[H_B]

But Unionists have to accept that changing demographics mean they will be a minority in their own little gerrymandered sectarian statelet

This is far from clear. As has been made abundantly clear to you on this thread already.

[roverthemoon]

But Unionists have to accept that changing demographics mean they will be a minority in their own little gerrymandered sectarian statelet and that the days of a "Protestant parliament for a Protestant state" are gone forever and that Nationalists have every right to have their culture respected

That's clearly been accepted by the majority of unionists in their support for the GF and St Andrews agreements. So why sound so bitter about it?

Most people in Northern Ireland just want a peaceful future. Of course there are fuckwits on both sides who reject that and want it ALL their own way and are prepared to riot over flags or kill police officers or prison guards. But thankfully they are the minority

[vikingTON]

Most people in Northern Ireland just want a peaceful future.

Only because the place of Norn Ireland as a sponging 'partner' in the Union has been reinforced. The latter part of this 'peaceful future' claim is clear to see.

[H_B]

They don't seem to be very accepting of the changed nature of Northern Irish society.Peter Robinson spoke just last week of a confident,secure and non sectarian Unionism and building a shared society for all yet he refuses to meet Nationalists half way

Why did Nationalist politicians on the same day this vote was pushed through in Belfast, use their majority vote in Newry to name a child's playpark after a murdering IRA scumbag?

Is that them meeting the Unionists half way?

Is celebrating IRA thugs this "culture" you are tripping over yourself to see protected?

[H_B]

For the avoidance of doubt, elected officials can of course use their mandate as they wish.

But their grubby little agendas are transparent and will be reacted to by the population.

[roverthemoon]

Bitter?

It's a simple statement of fact.Unionists lost a democratic vote last week and the main Unionist parties called the dregs of society out on to the streets because of it

They don't seem to be very accepting of the changed nature of Northern Irish society.Peter Robinson spoke just last week of a confident,secure and non sectarian Unionism and building a shared society for all yet he refuses to meet Nationalists half way

You're making the mistake of equating a vocal minority with mainstream unionism. The people rioting in this case aren't representative of most unionists in the same way that the people who killed Ronan Kerr aren't representative of most Nationalists.

No fan of Robinson but to be fair to him he meets Nationalists halfway in Stormont every day and the minute people started rioting Robinson condemned them.

And ultimately he's a unionist so of course he would object to a Sinn Fein proposal to remove the flag of the UK. Everyone knows flags in Northern Ireland are a contentious issue so the minute Sinn Fein put forward this motion it was poking the hornets nest. They knew that it would provoke a reaction so no one can be absolved of blame in stirring this pointless shit up.

[H_B]

You're making the mistake of equating a vocal minority with mainstream unionism. The people rioting in this case aren't representative of most unionists in the same way that the people who killed Ronan Kerr aren't representative of most Nationalists.

No fan of Robinson but to be fair to him he meets Nationalists halfway in Stormont every day and the minute people started rioting Robinson condemned them.

And ultimately he's a unionist so of course he would object to a Sinn Fein proposal to remove the flag of the UK. Everyone knows flags in Northern Ireland are a contentious issue so the minute Sinn Fein put forward this motion it was poking the hornets nest. They knew that it would provoke a reaction so no one can be absolved of blame in stirring this pointless shit up.

This is the problem. Joking aside, a lot of Norn Ironers come to Scotland to go to University and stay here. Probably accounts for at least 10 % of the people I work with.

All decent people want to do is move forward. They aren't at all proud that Belfast is notorious in Europe for all the wrong reasons. Both collections of fucking idiots demanding that their kulchur be respected is just dragging down the place.

I don't see any future for Northern Ireland to be honest. Or any good one that is. Every time you despair about our politicians, you should be thankful they aren't Peter Robinson and his wife and the murderers.

[old school]

Not fond of the constabulary then? Good loyal RUC men, most of them..

Turning on their brethren

[roverthemoon]

I don't see any future for Northern Ireland to be honest. Or any good one that is.

I disagree. I think they've come a long way in the last 15 years. It's still early days but every year that goes by is another year of peace and people won't want to give that up easily.

The paramilitaries on both sides were only able to operate freely in the past because they

had support from the silent majority. They no longer have that.

There will always be skirmishes like this incident from both sides and dark days when people are killed but the majority want to move forward. And they will I'm sure.

[SS-18 ICBM]

For the avoidance of doubt, elected officials can of course use their mandate as they wish.

But their grubby little agendas are transparent and will be reacted to by the population.

Hmm...

[roverthemoon]

His party distributed over forty thousand leaflets denouncing the Alliance party as sell outs in East Belfast,he knew what reaction that was going to get.And he condemned the protests but nullified that condemnation by blaming Sinn Fein,the S.D.L.P and the Alliance for the violence.Its a divided society and more than half of Belfast don't feel represented by that flag so why should they tolerate it when the D.U.P and other Unionists refuse to even countenance things such as an Irish language act

And it was Robinson who coined the term "A battle a day" when he was asked how he would tackle working with Sin n Fein in Stormont which doesn't sound all that concilatory

It is a divided society but its also at present part of the UK. You could argue Sinn Fein and the SDLP put forward the motion knowing what reaction they were going to get. I'm sure you'd put forward as equal a condemnation of that act unless you're arguing that one side is all bad and the other is blameless.

Nobody is blameless here.

[welshbairn]

And it's the norm throughout the U.K to only fly the flag on designated days which means this was a fair compromise by the Sinn Fein and the S.D.L.P.It's just false to say S.F and the S.D.L.P should accept blame for voting in the affirmitative on a motion brought forward by a liberal Unionist party

Should Sinn Fein and the S.D.L.P politicians never propose motions or pursue policies that their constituents are asking for out of fear that loyalist dregs will riot when the democratic will of the people goes against them?

What do the Nationalists gain from this, apart from pissing off the Unionists?

[Granny Danger]

It is a divided society but its also at present part of the UK. You could argue Sinn Fein and the SDLP put forward the motion knowing what reaction they were going to get. I'm sure you'd put forward as equal a condemnation of that act unless you're arguing that one side is all bad and the other is blameless.

Nobody is blameless here.

I didn't do anything.