Belfast Council remove Union Flag

[topcat(The most tip top)]

What are the cardiff and swansea city councils' policy on flying the union flag? Or do you even know? Or care?

Belfast Council bothered to check this up

http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/equality/docs/EQIA-flying-union-flag.doc

3.18 In 2008 the UK government published the White Paper “The Governance of Britain: Constitutional Renewal” which contained proposed changes to the rules on the guidance relating to the flying of flags in England, Wales and Scotland. The changes give UK government departments the freedom to fly the Union flag on their buildings as often as they wish. These changes followed a consultation process where over 60% of respondents supported flying the Union flag on all UK government buildings all the time. The rationale for the changes (set out in an earlier Green Paper) included the government’s view that:

“..in other countries, such as France and the United States, the national flag is regarded as a source of pride, in recent years the Union flag has all too often become the preserve of political extremists, a symbol of discord rather than harmony. It is critical that this symbol is not hijacked by those who seek to work against the fundamental British values of tolerance and mutual respect.”

3.19 The Scottish Executive revised its guidance in 2006 to require the flying of the Saltire each day from Executive buildings and the flying of the Union flag on designated flag days. The National Assembly for Wales building flies the Union flag, the Red Dragon and the European Flag on a daily basis.

3.20 Research for the initial EQIA report showed that a number of major city councils in England and Wales had already adopted the policy of flying the Union flag every day (for example, Bradford, Coventry, Newcastle, Cardiff and Swansea[1]). Others tended to fly the Union flag on designated flag days only (for example, Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester and Sheffield). In Scotland, the majority of councils tended to fly the Union flag alongside the Saltire on designated flag days, although some flew both flags every day (for example, Aberdeenshire, Dundee, Moray, Renfrewshire and Scottish Borders). Edinburgh City Council flew the Saltire every day but did not fly the Union flag, although there was a flag displayed inside the Council Chambers.

3.21 Although the research has not been fully repeated for this report, it appears that some councils have changed their policies as a result of the White Paper. For example, Birmingham, Leeds and Sheffield councils now fly the Union flag every day.

<BR clear=all>[1] Cardiff and Swansea also fly the Red Dragon every day.

[~~~]

Well done Edinburgh City Council

The UJ should never take precedence over the Saltire in Scotland

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Well done Edinburgh City Council

Now there's a phrase you don't hear very often!

[H_B]

That they are very much a side issue here. The rioters are to blame for their behaviour, not a small number of retaliatory nationalists.

Label me stunned....

[T_S_A_R]

Their cake is being taken from then slice by slice, and that's as it should be. Demographics in Northern Ireland has changed, democracy has acted and they canny take it so choose to destroy the place and hurt people.

in what way?

[flyingrodent]

Irish Times article from today says it all - in the long, violent and lunatic war for the future of Northern Ireland, the Unionists won. The problem is, a minority of them are too damn stupid to realise it...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2013/0114/1224328803542.html#

Within a week of the 1994 IRA ceasefire, graffiti on the loyalist Shankill Road declared, “The Protestant People of West Belfast accept the unconditional surrender of the IRA.”The writer may have been premature and tongue-in-cheek, but the Belfast Agreement, IRA decommissioning and the participation of former IRA leaders in the partitionist parliament at Stormont, all bear out the truth of that writing on the wall.

Like it or not, the unionists won the long war. They have not only secured Northern Ireland’s future within the UK for the conceivable future, but remarkably gained republican acquiescence to it.

In signing up to the Belfast Agreement, the republican leadership acknowledged not only that the unionist veto on an all-Ireland exists, but that it has the right to exist.

Unfortunately though, in the zero-sum politics of Northern Ireland, no one bothered to tell the unionist people that they won. Instead, the colourless leaders of unionism have spoken only concessions and perceived concessions.

Quietly however, unionist leaders do acknowledge their victory. Speaking to the London Times in 2011, First Minister Peter Robinson was upbeat about Northern Ireland’s future in the UK:

“I think the more stable our structure, the more peaceful Northern Ireland is, the more it works as part of the UK, then the more people will think, ‘Why on earth would we change?’”

Robinson, of course, is correct. And recent opinion polls suggest the majority of Northern Ireland residents, both Catholics and Protestants, favour the province remaining within the UK. So what is the disruption about?

Well, from the unionist perspective, an unfortunate consequence of the current new inclusive Northern Ireland is that is has to be new and inclusive. The unionists may have won, but for some the perception is that they lost.

Sinn Féin, while not aggressively pushing Irish unity – it’s a political non-starter – has instead pushed the agenda of shared space and parity of esteem. Something which means the greening of the orange state and the de-politicising of shared spaces.

Irritatingly, the unionists just don’t get how wimpish this campaign is, nor how what was once a radical, Marxist, armed revolutionary movement is only too happy to acknowledge the Britishness of its fellow Irish citizens while its leaders meet the queen, administer British rule and vote to fly the union flag over Belfast City Hall on designated days.

In fact the magnitude of the unionist victory is not only unchallenged by these Sinn Féin tactics, rather it is underscored. Unionists should be delighted that republicans have so little ambition that they can achieve only small and compromised symbolic victories like the flag-lowering.

The real danger then to unionism’s triumph comes not from republicanism, not even dissident republicanism, but from themselves. In this crisis, with loyalist protesters and rioters holding much of the province to ransom, unionists are again metaphorically and literally rallying around the flag. This is not just mistaken, it is silly and dangerous too.

Yet perhaps, just perhaps, the newly established Unionist Forum will find the courage to admit that unionism has won.

Perhaps then it can articulate a new confident vision of unionism, one which dispenses with the ideology of not an inch and makes room for the hybrid Irish and British and unionist citizen. If it can do this then the victory really will be complete.

On the other hand though, “No surrender!” does have a ring to it.

[jagfox]

Re: A Burns supper at a Masonic hall isn't that surprising considering he was a Mason himself.

[Wee Bully]

Re: A Burns supper at a Masonic hall isn't that surprising considering he was a Mason himself.

Of course it's not. I was more commenting on the protesters bigoted view.

[Gordon EF]

There are more nationalist voters than there used to be.

We all know you mean catholic, not nationalist.

I looked at the difference in percentage between votes for unionist and nationalist parties in NI assembly electrons since 1998. The unionist vote has been larger in every election but the differences were..

1998: 5.6%

2003: 7.9%

2007: 3.8%

2011: 4.6%

Both the unionist and nationalist votes are bigger now than they were in 1998 although the gap has closed a little. Between 2007 and 2011, the unionist vote increased by 0.7% and the nationalist vote decreased by 0.1%. I don't think there's a strong argument to say there's a significant trend of increasing nationalist voters and especially not at the expense of the unionist parties.

[T_S_A_R]

and you can guarantee that this entire incident will set back cross community parties and retrench many voters who have moved allegiance.

[Gordon EF]

There are more people now than in the past who don't wish to look at that particular flag every day as they go about their lives in Belfast.

It's just tough luck for the neds who can't take it.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's hilarious that the unionist scum bags are raging over this. As with anything NI-related, it's just a shame the nationalist scum bags will be happy about it. If only there was some way for every scum bag to lose.

[~~~]

Don't get me wrong, I think it's hilarious that the unionist scum bags are raging over this. As with anything NI-related, it's just a shame the nationalist scum bags will be happy about it. If only there was some way for every scum bag to lose.

Easy, cut NI from the UK pursestrings.

It doesn't have to be a part of the republic, but it does have to pay for itself. see how long they last.

[welshbairn]

There are more people now than in the past who don't wish to look at that particular flag every day as they go about their lives in Belfast.

It's just tough luck for the neds who can't take it.

They must have good eyesight. Most people probably never notice it.

[ICTChris]

The people on this side of the water - British parents - have seen their sons vilified and spat upon and murdered. British taxpayers have seen the taxes they have poured out, almost without regard to cost - over £300 million a year this year with the cost of the Army operation on top of that - going into Northern Ireland. They see property destroyed by evil violence and are asked to pick up the bill for rebuilding it. Yet people who benefit from all this now viciously defy Westminster, purporting to act as though they were an elected government; people who spend their lives sponging on Westminster and British democracy and then systematically assault democratic methods. Who do these people think they are?

Harold Wilson said that in 1974, during the Ulster Workers COuncil strikes. The big difference then was the belligerence in the wider community, I think - the UWC strike had widespread support across all Unionist/Protestant people. Support for the Ulster People's Council, or whatever they are called can probably be measured in the dozens.

I think there's a feeling that these communities haven't fared well from the peace process - traditionally the jobs in heavy industry would go to working class Protestants and neither the heavy industry or the bias in society towards Protestants exists anymore, leaving manyof these communities increasingly impoverished. Add in the influence of 'paramilitaries' who are pretty much gangsters in some cases and it's a toxic mix. Of course, the peace process isn't designed to make everyone better - all socieities have poverty and stopping murder isn't a means to improve the economy, that's an additional benefit. Interestingly the dissident republican groups are beginning to make small inroads in Republican areas that are similar to the Loyalist estates involved in this rioting, in places like Derry and Lurgan.

[Quintessentially British]

Gerry adams is such a c**t, "the people from the short stand were't rioting" aye ok then.

[jagfox]

The city hall flag hoister should run up the white flag then the last one out the building should turn off the lights.

[~~~]

Gerry adams is such a c**t, "the people from the short stand were't rioting" aye ok then.

What part of NI are you from again?

[topcat(The most tip top)]

1358207616[/url]' post='6986118']

As an aside, can anyone tell me what country the Boyne is in please?

http://www.boyne.com/ USA apparently

[topcat(The most tip top)]

No, the one with the battle.

The Town of Battle is in East Sussex, England http://www.battle-sussex.co.uk/ This game is a doddle

When do I get to ask you one?

[welshbairn]

No, the one with the battle.

Can I go? Can I go?

The Kingdom of Great Britain, France and Ireland?