forkboy Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 The lengths people will go to in order to delude themselves that Armstrong was clean, alone among the top riders of that era, is astounding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 The lengths people will go to in order to delude themselves that Armstrong was clean, alone among the top riders of that era, is astounding ? What do you mean? You mean lengths like asking for actual evidence he was guilty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I would assume they've got more proof than a kind of "he said you did" kind of pointing the finger. Presumably there are positive tests or that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 ? What do you mean? You mean lengths like asking for actual evidence he was guilty? I think you are misunderstanding what evidence is. Suppose you were accused of distributing illegal drugs and brought before a court. Eight people are called as witnesses to say that they saw you distribute illegal drugs at particular times, to particular people. Some of these witnesses receieved illegal drugs from you. That's evidence. In court lawyers often attack such witnesses, they lack credibility, saying anything to get out of prosecution etc etc. It's up to the court to decide how credible these witnesses are. Just yesterday a judge ruled in favour of Roman Abramovich over Boris Berezvosky in a case that essentially boiled down to who was the more credible witness. If one of the forum legal eagles wants to contradict me on this then please feel free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-usada-in-possession-of-positive-armstrong-samples French TV show claims American agency retested Armstrong's samples Stade 2, the weekly television sports show by France 2, claims that the American Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) is in possession of blood samples from Lance Armstrong, which they have retested and have now come back positive for performance-enhancing drugs. A reporter from France 2, Nicolas Geay, claimed he had exclusive information from USADA's Travis Tygart, according to which he "could now reveal" that blood samples taken earlier during Armstrong's career had been retested under the authority of USADA and "finally came back positive". USADA is expected to send the final report to the UCI in two weeks time, according to French television, and make it public at the same time in order to put the governing body of the sport under pressure to ratify their life-time ban for Armstrong. Armstrong did not want to comment when approached by French television in Montreal, Canada, last week, where he was invited as a guest speaker at the World Cancer Congress. He has always denied taking performance enhancing drugs but chose not to contest USADA's charges, leading to a life-time ban and all results from August 1, 1998 being stripped from his palmares. Armstrong went on record to later state that in his eyes he was still a seven time Tour de France winner. Cyclingnews attempted to contact USADA but were unable to reach them for comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Tyler Hamilton http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/media/books/Keyes-hamilton-the-secret-race.html?page=all http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=8321135&wjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Armstrong released this a few days ago. I don't know if this is being overly cynical, but he seems to use Livestrong as a shield to avoid talking about any of the doping scandal. I do feel like his failure to fight any of the charges was in fact an admission of guilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Tyler Hamilton http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/media/books/Keyes-hamilton-the-secret-race.html?page=all http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=8321135&wjb The book is serialised in The Times today. One thing he mentions is the test for EPO. He says it took the UCI and WADA years and millions of dollars to develop a test for EPO and Michele Ferrari five minutes to work out how to beat it (they injected it into their veins rather than subcutaneously). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggie_Murray7 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 One of the team's techniques, Hamilton claims, was the use of blood doping, whereby an amount of a rider's blood was extracted, stored and then re-injected to boost the red blood cell count. "With the other stuff, you swallow a pill or put on a patch or get a tiny injection," Hamilton wrote. "But here you're watching a big clear plastic bag slowly fill up with your warm dark red blood. "You never forget it." Hamilton also alleged that at the 1999 Tour Armstrong's gardener, named only as Phillipe, followed the riders on a motorbike carrying a flask containing vials of the blood-boosting drug EPO. "When we needed Edgar [Allan Poe, a slang term for EPO], Phillipe would zip through the Tour's traffic and make a drop-off," he claimed. Hamilton also questioned the quality of the doping tests the riders were subjected to. Armstrong has never failed a doping test, a fact frequently held up by his supporters as proof of his innocence, but Hamilton wrote: "They weren't drug tests. They were more like discipline tests, IQ tests. "If you were careful and paid attention, you could dope and be 99% certain that you would not get caught. "They've got their doctors, and we've got ours, and ours are better. Better paid, for sure." Armstrong's representatives were not immediately available for comment about the book's claims when contacted. Armstrong has always denied using drugs throughout his career. How in the f**k has it taken them this long for anyone to notice this? A guy just dropping of bottles of EPO in the middle of the peloton and nobody twigged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 [/size][/font] How in the f**k has it taken them this long for anyone to notice this? A guy just dropping of bottles of EPO in the middle of the peloton and nobody twigged? it's not in the middle of the peloton ffs! he means in the middle of the caravan which includes hundreds of vehicles including dozens of buses plus trucks, cars, trailers and motorbikes plus all the traffic generated by the fans and closed roads. one guy zooming around on a scooter isn't going to attract any attention. euros love their scooters. also the tour is supposedly quite open plan and fans can walk around the buses and meet the riders easily enough. it's not on lock down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 apparently there are 23 california state senators lobbying the two us senators for the state to have usada investigated and curtailed. he's like michael corleone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 There's a good interview with Tyler Hamilton (and Daniel Coyle, his ghost writer) in today's Times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 There's a good interview with Tyler Hamilton (and Daniel Coyle, his ghost writer) in today's Times. a very good interview. i had a think about what he said about lance coming clean and if he told the truth about the UCI and which of his sponsors were complicit it would go a long way to redeeming him. apparently bruyneel is still intending to contest the charges. he's the comical ali of cycling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ1210 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 1347016774[/url]' post='6604824']There's a good interview with Tyler Hamilton (and Daniel Coyle, his ghost writer) in today's Times. You'd never have guessed Hamilton had a book coming out soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 You'd never have guessed Hamilton had a book coming out soon. what is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ1210 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 what is your point? Motive and credibility. Tyler Hamilton is not doing these interviews out of guilt at being a twice banned drugs cheat, or because he has been trying to clean up cycling, he is doing it simply to make money. Funny that his book was scheduled for release around the time of what would have been the trial of Armstrong. Remember Hamilton is the person who tried to blame a failed test on having a "vanishing twin" (a dead fetus that gets reabsorbed by the mother and another fetus ie him). Regardless about a persons opinion on Armstrong, I find it difficult to trust or believe anything that comes out of the mouth of a person like Hamilton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Motive and credibility. Tyler Hamilton is not doing these interviews out of guilt at being a twice banned drugs cheat, or because he has been trying to clean up cycling, he is doing it simply to make money. Funny that his book was scheduled for release around the time of what would have been the trial of Armstrong. Remember Hamilton is the person who tried to blame a failed test on having a "vanishing twin" (a dead fetus that gets reabsorbed by the mother and another fetus ie him). Regardless about a persons opinion on Armstrong, I find it difficult to trust or believe anything that comes out of the mouth of a person like Hamilton. the things that are in tyler hamilton's book are the things he said in front of the grand jury. if he is proven to be telling lies he will go to prison. just because he was previously dishonest doesn't mean he isn't telling the truth now. the fact that his account matches up to armstrong's failed tests, what we know about fuentes and ferrari and the other eye witness accounts makes it very credible. anyone who still believes in lance needs their head examined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Fine interview this morning with Sunday Times chief sports writer David Walsh about doping in cycling & in particular Lance Armstrong on today`s Keys & Gray show on Talksport. http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/richard-keys-and-andy-gray/120911/walsh-lance-armstrongs-drugs-shame-180649 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Fine interview this morning with Sunday Times chief sports writer David Walsh about doping in cycling & in particular Lance Armstrong on today`s Keys & Gray show on Talksport. http://www.talksport...gs-shame-180649 there have been three short opinion pieces about the uci in the sports section of the times this week. i get the feeling a lot of journalists had no idea of the level of corruption in that organisation. hopefully pressure will grow on mcquaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 The UCI are personally suing Paul Kimmage for libel and are asking him to pay for full page apology adverts in the Times and the French press after some of his coverage of the Armstrong affair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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